Surely Premils must invent 2 future glorifications days separated by 1000 years+?

[Timtofly]

They are the one climactic event. You deny what the Book says.

Revelation 20 says 1000 years. Those years only get climactic at the end. I cannot deny 1000 years.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Revelation 20 says 1000 years. Those years only get climactic at the end. I cannot deny 1000 years.

We have been in Rev 20 since the first resurrection.

 

[Timtofly]

We have been in Rev 20 since the first resurrection.

The first resurrection is of the body. You have an incorruptible body? Those in Revelation 20, have an incorruptible body that escapes the second death. The rod of iron literally destroys those by breaking them into pieces. You have quoted the verses, because they are your climactic ending proof text. No one dies of sickness nor peacefully in their sleep. They are literally destroyed climactically.

 

[sovereigngrace]

The first resurrection is of the body. You have an incorruptible body? Those in Revelation 20, have an incorruptible body that escapes the second death. The rod of iron literally destroys those by breaking them into pieces. You have quoted the verses, because they are your climactic ending proof text. No one dies of sickness nor peacefully in their sleep. They are literally destroyed climactically.

The Bible makes it clear that Christ is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5).

We are in Rev 20 now.

 

[Timtofly]

The Bible makes it clear that Christ is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5).

We are in Rev 20 now.

We are not in incorruptible bodies. That is the first resurrection. If you are in Revelation 20 now, you are dead.

 

[sovereigngrace]

We are not in incorruptible bodies. That is the first resurrection. If you are in Revelation 20 now, you are dead.

You are fighting with Scripture. Jesus is the first resurrection. I showed you the proof above. You rejected it because it exposes your beliefs. We get out incorruptible bodies when Jesus comes.

 

[Timtofly]

You are fighting with Scripture. Jesus is the first resurrection. I showed you the proof above. You rejected it because it exposes your beliefs. We get out incorruptible bodies when Jesus comes.

Jesus had a bodily resurrection. That is my point. You reject God’s Word, because God's Word claims it was a bodily resurrection. Paul says a bodily resurrection is an incorruptible body. You reject God’s Word via Paul that Christ now has an incorruptible body. That is my point per Paul and the Gospels. You reject my point over and over again for some odd reason.

Those alive and remain get their incorruptible bodies. If you want to walk around Paradise naked until the Second Coming that is your choice, not mine.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Jesus had a bodily resurrection. That is my point. You reject God’s Word, because God's Word claims it was a bodily resurrection. Paul says a bodily resurrection is an incorruptible body. You reject God’s Word via Paul that Christ now has an incorruptible body. That is my point per Paul and the Gospels. You reject my point over and over again for some odd reason.

Those alive and remain get their incorruptible bodies. If you want to walk around Paradise naked until the Second Coming that is your choice, not mine.

There is a reason why Scripture describes the dead in Christ as souls. Resurrection day or the day of redemption of our bodies is repeatedly shown to be the second coming. It is there is that man experiences the final part of redemption – the redemption of his body.

Jesus said in Luke 21:26-28, 36: “for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming (erchomai) in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh … Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall (or mello or hereafter) come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”

Luke 21 shows us what occurs at the climactic future coming of Christ. Not only will creation be glorified, the righteous will also experience the same. This is the moment when man and creation is simultaneously perfected. This is shown to be the realization of the final aspect of redemption.

Ephesians 1:13-14 assures us that “ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.”

Ephesians 4:30 similarly states, “ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”

That day is the climatic coming of Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit is here described as “that Holy Spirit of promise.” The word “earnest” here relates to a security down payment. It is taken from the Greek word arrhabon, which is from a Hebrew origin [meaning a pledge in advance as security for the rest. You have heard of earnest money. ‘It is a portion of something, given or done in advance as a promise of the remainder’. This seal is active until the time when Jesus comes and we shall be physically redeemed.

Romans 8:19-23 continues, “For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption (phthora or decay) into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.”

There is a direct connection between the liberation of “creation” and the liberation of the “sons of God.” Both the creature and creation are waiting for “the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body” – or resurrection day. This is the day when both will simultaneously be delivered from the aforementioned “bondage of corruption.” The day of redemption is shown throughout Scripture to be the second coming of Christ. It is there is that man experiences the final part of redemption – the redemption of his body.

 

[sovereigngrace]

We are not in incorruptible bodies. That is the first resurrection. If you are in Revelation 20 now, you are dead.

Who is "the first resurrection" in Acts 26:23 and Rev 20:6?

Who is "the firstborn from the dead" in Colossians 1:18?

Who is "the firstfruits of them that slept" in 1 Corinthians 15:20?

Who is "first begotten of the dead" in Revelation 1:5?

 

[Timtofly]

Who is "the first resurrection" in Acts 26:23 and Rev 20:6?

Who is "the firstborn from the dead" in Colossians 1:18?

Who is "the firstfruits of them that slept" in 1 Corinthians 15:20?

Who is "first begotten of the dead" in Revelation 1:5?

Everyone currently in Paradise.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Everyone currently in Paradise.

This is the issue: you deny Christ's resurrection. That is why your doctrine is messed up.

 

[Timtofly]

This is the issue: you deny Christ's resurrection. That is why your doctrine is messed up.

The only reason many are in Paradise is because they are in Christ and His first Resurrection. Perhaps your view is too limited. And you cannot see past your interpretation?

I do not have a doctrine, only God's Word. Perhaps it is because you think God's Word is messed up is why I do not make any sense?

 

[sovereigngrace]

The only reason many are in Paradise is because they are in Christ and His first Resurrection. Perhaps your view is too limited. And you cannot see past your interpretation?

I do not have a doctrine, only God's Word. Perhaps it is because you think God's Word is messed up is why I do not make any sense?

The bottom line is the first resurrection has happened a long time ago. Rev 20 is ongoing as you seem to concede. This proves Amil and exposes Premil.

 

[Timtofly]

The bottom line is the first resurrection has happened a long time ago. Rev 20 is ongoing as you seem to concede. This proves Amil and exposes Premil.

Revelation 20 has not happened yet. The first resurrection is ongoing, and the last time the first resurrection happens is after the battle of Armageddon and the start of the Lord's Day known as the Millennium.

The first resurrection is bodily to a permanent, incorruptible body, not of Adam's copied DNA, but from the hands of the Lord of the earth, Himself.

 

[jeffweedaman]

Tim , what do you mean by the first resurrection is on going?
Amills say it has been on going since the first century, as NOW is the time for not coming into the judgment.

The physical resurrection of ALL believers happens in a twinkling of an eye and is not on going.

 

[Timtofly]

Tim , what do you mean by the first resurrection is on going?
Amills say it has been on going since the first century, as NOW is the time for not coming into the judgment.

The physical resurrection of ALL believers happens in a twinkling of an eye and is not on going.

The first resurrection is a type, not a when. The first resurrection is bodily. If any one accepts an ongoing first resurrection as written in Scripture it is bodily. That which is born of the flesh is a physical body, fist birth, first resurrection. That which is born of the Spirit is of God, second birth, second resurrection. The Second Coming, second resurrection event is found in the 5th Seal written by John in Revelation 6. Paul explains the two resurrections as 1) corruptible to incorruptible, and 2) mortal to immortality. The first type is bodily, the second type is putting on the spirit, the full image of God.

Adam died physically and spiritually that day. His incorruptible body died and God gave him a corruptible body. God took away the spirit, the God part, and the soul was spiritually dead. People reject both deaths, and like Satan, claims, "thou shalt not die". The soul did not die, the body died, and the spirit was taken away from Adam and all his offspring. Adam lost both the incorruptible body, and his spirit that day, but most agree with Satan, and miss the reality of what happened.

 

[sovereigngrace]

The first resurrection is a type, not a when. The first resurrection is bodily. If any one accepts an ongoing first resurrection as written in Scripture it is bodily. That which is born of the flesh is a physical body, fist birth, first resurrection. That which is born of the Spirit is of God, second birth, second resurrection. The Second Coming, second resurrection event is found in the 5th Seal written by John in Revelation 6. Paul explains the two resurrections as 1) corruptible to incorruptible, and 2) mortal to immortality. The first type is bodily, the second type is putting on the spirit, the full image of God.

Adam died physically and spiritually that day. His incorruptible body died and God gave him a corruptible body. God took away the spirit, the God part, and the soul was spiritually dead. People reject both deaths, and like Satan, claims, "thou shalt not die". The soul did not die, the body died, and the spirit was taken away from Adam and all his offspring. Adam lost both the incorruptible body, and his spirit that day, but most agree with Satan, and miss the reality of what happened.

He did not physically die that day. He died spiritually. He lived on for hundreds of years after that. You have been taught wrong.

 

[Timtofly]

He did not physically die that day. He died spiritually. He lived on for hundreds of years after that. You have been taught wrong.

That is exactly what Satan said.

 

[sovereigngrace]

That is exactly what Satan said.

When did Satan say that?

Whilst we know from Scripture that Adam ate of that forbidden fruit, we equally know that he didn't physically die on that same day. This warning wasn’t therefore just talking about bodily death. In fact, Genesis 5:5 tells us, “And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.”

 

[Timtofly]

When did Satan say that?

Whilst we know from Scripture that Adam ate of that forbidden fruit, we equally know that he didn't physically die on that same day. This warning wasn’t therefore just talking about bodily death. In fact, Genesis 5:5 tells us, “And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.”

Adam lived out the rest of his life in a corruptible body. Adam's incorruptible body died. He died physically and lost his spirit part of God's image, thus spiritually separated, and spiritually dead.

4 The serpent said to the woman, “It is not true that you will surely die;
5 because God knows that on the day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Satan said, "you will not die". God said, "But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt die the death."

Adam and Eve lost their permanent body made by God and was given the corruptible tent body, that decays and eventually will die. Thus all of Adam's descendants through Seth and later Noah, were in Adam's image and likeness, no longer in God's image and likeness.

Genesis 5:3

Now Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a child in his own likeness after his image, and called his name Seth.

The sinful fleshly image of Adam was passed on, because the God image was dead to humankind, because of Adam's disobedience.