Sunday Sabbath?

[Spawn]

seriously bro, search the Scripture. Genesis 2.3

READ again what I posted - where in the book does it say JESUS sanctified any day. Now unless you are a oneness pentacostal - Jesus is not the father.

 

[freeh_rap_brown]

CENTER>SUNDAY SERVICES</CENTER>Early believers kept Saturday as the Sabbath until March 7, 321 CE when Pope Constantine passed a law requiring believers to worship on Sunday, the day the pagans worshipped the sun-god. Believers still kept Saturday as the Sabbath until another law was passed eleven years later. This law signed into decree by Pope Constantine forbid believers to worship on the Sabbath (Saturday) and it was punishable by death by the Catholic Church. Many believers were burned to death by the Catholic Church for keeping the Sabbath.

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[Spawn]

CENTER>SUNDAY SERVICES</CENTER>Early believers kept Saturday as the Sabbath until March 7, 321 CE when Pope Constantine passed a law requiring believers to worship on Sunday, the day the pagans worshipped the sun-god. Believers still kept Saturday as the Sabbath until another law was passed eleven years later. This law signed into decree by Pope Constantine forbid believers to worship on the Sabbath (Saturday) and it was punishable by death by the Catholic Church. Many believers were burned to death by the Catholic Church for keeping the Sabbath.

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this is a malicious lie and completely inconsistent with recorded history propagated by those lost in the error of the judiazers in their attempts to foist pharisaical Judaism on Christianity.

1 - CONSTANTINE WAS NEVER POPE.

2 - SUNDAY WAS NEVER A ROMAN HOLYDAY. THEY DID NOT HAVE A WEEKLY HOLIDAY.

3 - SUNDAY OBSERVANCES DATE TO THE BEGINING OF THE CHURCH - 33 AD.

And those are just the most obvious errors. lol

 

[silkcity]

READ again what I posted - where in the book does it say JESUS sanctified any day. Now unless you are a oneness pentacostal - Jesus is not the father.

do you just talk for the sake of talking? did i say Jesus was the Father? John 1.1-4, 1 Cor. 8.6, Ephesians 2.10, 3.9, Rev. 1.1,7,8 , 4.11, Col. 1.15, Heb. 1.2,3.

 

[silkcity]

Even after Jesus died, Paul was making sacrifices in the Temple, and we also see in 1st John that Sin is the transgression of the Law (of Moses).

The Law of Moses says to keep the Sabbath from Friday, sundown, to Saturday, sundown. Why don't we?

Peace!
-Steve-o

well, sorry i'm in a rush so i can't provide the texts right now, but Paul was a devout Jew persecuting the Christians before Jesus let him see the truth. He still would practice the ceremonial laws and him and Peter had arguments about this (circumsision). Sin is transgression of the law, but not necessarily the Laws of Moses. The 10 Commandments were made before sin and they point out sin. The post sin Laws (Moses's Laws) were made because of sin, they were symbolic of the sacrifice that Jesus would do. When a sacrifice for forgiveness was done the person was forgiven not because of the sacrifice but because of the promise of that symbolic sacrifice that Jesus would die for remission of our sins. Because if what you say is true, then Lucifer did not sin. Moses did not exist yet. God used His moral Law, the 10 Commandments, to judge Lucifer. Secondly, God wrote it in the 10 Commandments and also included other sabbaths in Moses' Law. And even still he continued to emphasize the importance of the Sabbath and mentions it as a part of Creation, not as a post sin ritual or law. I keep the Sabbath not because it's in Moses's Laws, but because it's a commandment of God.

 

[mystery4]

See Shumby's post (#2) in this thread. Apostolic teaching clearly shows us that the commands to Israel for Old Covenant Sabbath-keeping foreshadowed the rest we would have in Christ. That is...the rest we all (Jew and Gentile alike) would have from the works of the Law.

Jesus kept the Sabbath, He was Jewish, and He was the only one who ever kept all points of the Law. He was the only one who never sinned. That made Him the only one worthy to redeem us from the Law. Paul's writing is clear, and so is the letter to the Hebrews, regarding the place of the Old Covenant. Christ is our Sabbath. He has abolished the requirements of keeping the law having nailed it to the cross.

The Apostles have spoken clearly. Paul corrected Peter when Peter was trying to keep Jewish converts and Gentile Christians under bondage of the law. Jesus lifts the yoke of the Law, and becomes yoked with us.

...

May God Bless.

Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
(all emphasis mine)
Feel free to read the rest of Rom 3.

To my understanding, Peter and the rest of the disciples were judging the Gentiles because they were not circumcised if they didn't choose to be. Circumcision of the heart was not a new thing.
Jer. 4:4; Deut 10:16; 30:6
They are texts that show when God told the Jews to circumcise their hearts so God wouldn't show His wrath and it would go well with them.

That is why I believe, it was an added burden to the gentiles and why Paul rebuked the other disciples for thinking they had to be circumcised.

Works (ie, keeping the law) is not what saves us. All of us agree to that, what we tend to disagree on I have found is what position works takes in the life of a believer. According to Eph 2:10 we were created for good works. Therefore we are saved because of the atoning sacrifice Christ made for us and the grace shown by God. It is then our response to that which means we do good works because we are saved.

As is emphasised right throughout the NT, we are saved by grace, not by the law. However the law plays an important role in that if we did not have it, we would not know we were sinning. If we didn't know what sin was or that we were sinning, we wouldn't need Jesus. (See Romans 7 and 8) But to say that the law has been abolished is to say that we can do what we like because God will save us anyway.

The reason Sabbath keepers tend to try showing people the importance of it is because it makes a huge difference in the life of a believer. There is something special and different about that day when kept properly that you don't get worshipping on any other day. We want to share that with others. It also shows where your allegiance lies, is it with God, or with Satan who wants to decieve and destroy everyone?

However do not mistake what I have said, I am not saying that everyone who does not keep the Sabbath gives allegience to Satan. God judges people by whats in their hearts and how real their relationship is with Jesus, but a time is coming and has come where people will no longer be able to sit on the fence. They choose to either follow God and Him alone as directed by the Holy Spirit, relying on the sacrifice made by Christ or to follow in the ways of man.

If anyone is in any way able to show in cannoned scripture where it was that only one of the 10 commandments has been changed by Jesus or God, then I will no longer be a Sabbath keeper.

PS it was the book of Hebrews that the Holy Spirit convicted me of the seventh day Sabbath when I questioned it.

 

[The Thadman]

well, sorry i'm in a rush so i can't provide the texts right now, but Paul was a devout Jew persecuting the Christians before Jesus let him see the truth. He still would practice the ceremonial laws and him and Peter had arguments about this (circumsision).

So why would God hold a double-standard over practical laws of living?

Sin is transgression of the law, but not necessarily the Laws of Moses. The 10 Commandments were made before sin and they point out sin.

Then why did Abraham not only know the Commandments, but the Statutes and Ordinances (i.e. the Torah?). This includes the Sabbath, dietary laws, legal laws, etc. etc. etc.

The post sin Laws (Moses's Laws) were made because of sin, they were symbolic of the sacrifice that Jesus would do. When a sacrifice for forgiveness was done the person was forgiven not because of the sacrifice but because of the promise of that symbolic sacrifice that Jesus would die for remission of our sins.

Made because of sin?

Jesus could not be a sin sacrifice, as to sacrifice anything other than a ritually clean animal is an abomination to God. Humans are not ritually clean animals.

People are not forgiven for just making sacrifices. They are forgiven for a change of their heart. But regardless or not of where you heart is, like with a parking ticket, you still need to pay the fee.

Because if what you say is true, then Lucifer did not sin.

"Lucifer" is a creation of the King James Bible.

Moses did not exist yet. God used His moral Law, the 10 Commandments, to judge Lucifer. Secondly, God wrote it in the 10 Commandments and also included other sabbaths in Moses' Law. And even still he continued to emphasize the importance of the Sabbath and mentions it as a part of Creation, not as a post sin ritual or law. I keep the Sabbath not because it's in Moses's Laws, but because it's a commandment of God.

The Sabbath is a commandment of God, as are the rest of "Moses'" Laws. It's only called the "Law of Moses" because it was dictated to Moses. They are truly the Laws of God.

All gentiles who follow YHWH are commanded to keep the Sabbath. See Isaiah 56, as well as the Decalogue, itself.

Peace!
-Steve-o

 

[The Thadman]

this is a malicious lie and completely inconsistent with recorded history propagated by those lost in the error of the judiazers in their attempts to foist pharisaical Judaism on Christianity.

1 - CONSTANTINE WAS NEVER POPE.

2 - SUNDAY WAS NEVER A ROMAN HOLYDAY. THEY DID NOT HAVE A WEEKLY HOLIDAY.

3 - SUNDAY OBSERVANCES DATE TO THE BEGINING OF THE CHURCH - 33 AD.

And those are just the most obvious errors. lol

"Sunday" observances are much different than you'd think. "Sunday" for a Jew starts at sundown on Saturday. Paul and the Apostles, after the Sabbath was over, went out to dinner and talked with eachother until sunrise.

1) They still kept the Sabbath; and

2) If we're to keep authentic Sunday meetings they have to start with a meal on Saturday evening, followed by an all-nighter

Peace!
-Steve-o

 

[The Thadman]

READ again what I posted - where in the book does it say JESUS sanctified any day. Now unless you are a oneness pentacostal - Jesus is not the father.

Jesus prayed that the end of days would not happen on a Sabbath. He held it holy, and kept the Commandments, Statues, and Laws.

Peace,
-Steve-o

 

[muffler dragon]

this is a malicious lie and completely inconsistent with recorded history propagated by those lost in the error of the judiazers in their attempts to foist pharisaical Judaism on Christianity.

Wow! How many subjective considerations can one fit into a sentence? At least you don't hide your true feelings. Gotta give you kudos for that.

1 - CONSTANTINE WAS NEVER POPE.

Yet, as Emperor, he took on the responsibility as head of the church. Very similar to the situation with King Henry VIII when he started the Anglican Church.

2 - SUNDAY WAS NEVER A ROMAN HOLYDAY. THEY DID NOT HAVE A WEEKLY HOLIDAY.

Ever heard of Mithras? Do you know what day was utilized to honor him? Do you know that Constantine was a Mithraic worshipper? Are you seeing the connection?

3 - SUNDAY OBSERVANCES DATE TO THE BEGINING OF THE CHURCH - 33 AD.

And those are just the most obvious errors. lol

Actually, it's quite certain that the "Jerusalem Church" was composed of Torah-observant Jews.

 

[silkcity]

very well said mystery4!

thadman: i didn't say that the sacrifice of an animal forgives our sins, it was a ritual instituted by Jesus AFTER Adam and Eve sinned, because they broke his commandments that existed BEFORE they were even created. Even if we were truly sorry in our hearts for our sins, without the death of Jesus, we'd still die forever. the sacrifice of a lamb was symbolic. why did a sacrifice have to be done? because a commandment of God had been broken. Jesus told Adam and Eve that the day they disobeyed Him, they would surely die (Gen 2.16,17). Did they die? No! Why? Because Jesus interceded for us! God would have destroyed them right then and there if Jesus had not come up with a plan of salvation in advance. But is was not time for Jesus to die yet, so what did he do? He sacrificed a lamb and made clothes for them out of it as a symbol of what he would do for us. He would sacrifice his life and clothe us with his justice. Were Adam and Eve forgiven right then and there for their sins? Yes, but only on the promise that Jesus would one day die for them. When Jesus died, then they were legally forgiven. If Jesus would have never died for us or would have sinned here on Earth, Adam and Eve would have never been forgiven and no one else after them. What's more, Moses and Elijah would have been sent right back down to Earth! Thankyou Lord Jesus for your sacrifice!!!! As i was saying, if Adam and Eve would have never sinned (broken one or more of the ten commandments, there would be no sacrifices (death) or any other ceremonial laws to be practiced. After our Saviour died on the cross, the symbolicness of the ceremonial laws was fulfilled. Jesus makes everyone new again, as if we never broke his commandments. Practicing the ceremonial laws is like turning on a flash light in broad daylight. The ultimate sacrifice was already made. God already fulfilled his promise of providing a Saviour by giving us His Lamb.

 

[The Thadman]

thadman: i didn't say that the sacrifice of an animal forgives our sins, it was a ritual instituted by Jesus AFTER Adam and Eve sinned, because they broke his commandments that existed BEFORE they were even created.

Jesus instituted them? Was it not YHWH?

Even if we were truly sorry in our hearts for our sins, without the death of Jesus, we'd still die forever.

How so? How come without Jesus' death we'd die forever?

the sacrifice of a lamb was symbolic. why did a sacrifice have to be done? because a commandment of God had been broken.

Symbolic? No no no. It was the discipline for your behavior, the fee that you were responsible for, just like the $10 you have to pay for a late fee on a video or $50 for a speeding ticket.

Jesus told Adam and Eve that the day they disobeyed Him, they would surely die (Gen 2.16,17). Did they die? No!

Genesis 5:5, they died eventually.

One could easily also say that they did not age until they ate of the tree.

Why? Because Jesus interceded for us!

Where is this in the Genesis account?

God would have destroyed them right then and there if Jesus had not come up with a plan of salvation in advance. But is was not time for Jesus to die yet, so what did he do? He sacrificed a lamb and made clothes for them out of it as a symbol of what he would do for us.

Where does Genesis say that the garments Adam and Eve wore were lambskin? That's not Biblical, my friend.

He would sacrifice his life and clothe us with his justice. Were Adam and Eve forgiven right then and there for their sins? Yes, but only on the promise that Jesus would one day die for them.

Why didn't God say so in Genesis?

When Jesus died, then they were legally forgiven. If Jesus would have never died for us or would have sinned here on Earth, Adam and Eve would have never been forgiven and no one else after them. What's more, Moses and Elijah would have been sent right back down to Earth! Thankyou Lord Jesus for your sacrifice!!!! As i was saying, if Adam and Eve would have never sinned (broken one or more of the ten commandments, there would be no sacrifices (death) or any other ceremonial laws to be practiced. After our Saviour died on the cross, the symbolicness of the ceremonial laws was fulfilled. Jesus makes everyone new again, as if we never broke his commandments.

~blink blink blink~ My friend, you've gone on a tangent away from the Bible.

Practicing the ceremonial laws is like turning on a flash light in broad daylight.

Then you're saying that God lied about the Sabbath and the rest of the commandments, as they were ordinances FOREVER.

The ultimate sacrifice was already made. God already fulfilled his promise of providing a Saviour by giving us His Lamb.

1) Jesus -could not- have been a sacrifice. Impossible. Among other things sacrifices had to be ritually clean animals (no pigs or people! ) and be without blemish (Jesus was flogged and nailed).

2) Jesus was not the only savior in the Bible.

3) The passover lamb did not atone for sin.

Peace,
-Steve-o

 

[Calamari]

Sunday as a holy day for christians can be most accurately explained by the fact that most christian traditions rest on Zoroastrianism (ex: the unstained birth of the saviour), and not on Judaism, which is often misperceived as the founding tradition for christianity. Christian teachings generally emphasize the theologically more advanced zoroastrian tradition, often without naming it. Zoroastrianism often worshipped God's highest Angel, Mithras (the Sun), whose birthday was Sunday (hence the denomination Sunday). Most other christian traditions clearly relate to Zoroastrianism, rather than Judaism. To whom this may be surprising as Jesus lived in Palestine mostly among Jesus, consider that Jews were liberated from the babylonic exile by the persian King Cyrus, who imposed Zoroastrianism as a state religion, and heavily influenced pharisaic and christian traditions.

 

[muffler dragon]

Sunday as a holy day for christians can be most accurately explained by the fact that most christian traditions rest on Zoroastrianism (ex: the unstained birth of the saviour), and not on Judaism, which is often misperceived as the founding tradition for christianity. Christian teachings generally emphasize the theologically more advanced zoroastrian tradition, often without naming it. Zoroastrianism often worshipped God's highest Angel, Mithras (the Sun), whose birthday was Sunday (hence the denomination Sunday). Most other christian traditions clearly relate to Zoroastrianism, rather than Judaism. To whom this may be surprising as Jesus lived in Palestine mostly among Jesus, consider that Jews were liberated from the babylonic exile by the persian King Cyrus, who imposed Zoroastrianism as a state religion, and heavily influenced pharisaic and christian traditions.

Kudos Calamari! You are a rare breed of Roman Catholic. Most of the time, it's a fight to the teeth to even show a member of your church that consideration.

 

[Calamari]

Hehe, with most people i know this is common knowledge, but this could be due to my malign influence.

I think the catholic church, with it's huge theological organization and power, has the responsibility for promoting religious/mystical enlightenment and truth about the roots of our religiosity, which includes comprehensive understanding of "other" religions. Another candidate would be the shia muslims in Iran. Other religious organizations generally are too small or decentralized to do so.

 

[silkcity]

i'm sorry thadman i replied to your first post thinking that it was worth my time discussing with you...obviously not.

 

[D.W.]

Shalom silkcity,

While Steve did not give you reference for the things he wrote so that you could understand the points of view that he had, you also failed to give him any references for your beliefs.

: i didn't say that the sacrifice of an animal forgives our sins, it was a ritual instituted by

Jesus AFTER Adam and Eve sinned they broke his commandments that existed BEFORE they were even created

Adam and Eve disobeyed G-d, and suffered a forewarned consequence.

Even if we were truly sorry in our hearts for our sins,

without the death of Jesus, we'd still die forever.

Enoch didn’t.

Gen 5:23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:

Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

King David knew that there was life after death and that he would see his child again.

2 Sam 12:23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

The man that touched Elishas bones knew that there was life after death.

2 Ki 13:21 And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.

Were Adam and Eve forgiven right then and there for their sins? Yes, but only on the promise that Jesus would one day die for them

They got no forgiveness. Death they were promised and death they got.

Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Gen 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

After our Saviour died on the cross, the symbolicness of the ceremonial laws was fulfilled. Jesus makes everyone new again, as if we never broke his commandments

The only one that is ever spoken of as ending the sacrifices is the Antichrist spoken of in Daniel

Dan 8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

Dan 8:10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

Dan 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

Dan 8:12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practiced, and prospered.

Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Paul understood this and talked about it in his letter to the Thessalonians.

2 Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2 Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

G-d Bless,

Dan

 

[muffler dragon]

i'm sorry thadman i replied to your first post thinking that it was worth my time discussing with you...obviously not.

It's amazing that you think you have Thadman pegged with your SIXTEENTH post on this forum.

 

[JustinWindsor]

Christians Forums plus Liberal Theology, does not, to me at least, equal Judaism or anything that resembles it. Any message that attempts to replace the work of the cross in any way is a serious error standing opposed to the gospel brought by Christ and explained clearly by the Apostles.

"But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. "I and the Father are one." The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. (John 10:26-31)

Judaism even today, symbolically, would stone Christ; that is to deny the work of the cross.

What is the truth about the OT sabbaths? It was a sign of the Covenant between the LORD and His covenant nation Israel.

“The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, ‘But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel saying, ‘You shall surely observe My Sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you” Ex 21:12,13


Also I gave them My sabbaths to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them. (Ez 20:12)

What is the truth about the sabbath rest for Children of God? The prescribed sabbaths were a sign, in the same way that God resting on the seventh day was a sign (Heb 4:8-10)foreshadowing the believer's rest in Christ.


“For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.” Heb 4:8-10

"But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second."
Heb 8:6,7


“Behold, the days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD. “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” (Jer 31:27-34)



“When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.” (Heb 8:13)



“And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us (in the clear context of the chapter, Paul is speaking of the Mosaic Law ) and which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—things which were a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.” Colossians 2:13-17

"Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "Uncircumcision" by the so-called "Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by human hands-- remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one [Jew and Gentile] and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity." (Eph 2:11-16)

Jesus, fully God, fully man, fulfilled the Law. He nailed its decrees to the cross, an act that benefits all who will believe. His shed blood purchased redemption from the sin debt for all who will believe. There is a New Covenant...in Christ's blood...alone. A believer shall be declared righteous by faith...not by the Law. Anyone who depends on any one point of the Law for salvation, or sanctification, or to prove oneself redeemed, stands condemned already. By turning to the Law for superintending, or salvation or sanctification, it is as if you crucify Christ again. Christ died once, for all. The Law is a curse. The Law is our enmity. the Law is a burden. The Law is decrees against us. The Law is a yoke of bondage.

The Law, and its sabbaths, foreshadowed the accomplishment of Christ at the cross. Since Christ's act of His shed blood, His death at Calvary, the Law has only one purpose. It, along with its tablets of stone, is the ministry of death, of condemnation. The New Covenant in the blood of Jesus Christ is the only one which will save. Depending on any other thing or person, or act of anyone including oneself for salvation, ensures only the opposite.

If you have faith in Christ alone, you are redeemed by His blood. If you do not have faith in Christ alone, you are condemned by the ministry of death.

Any message that attempts to replace the gospel of the cross with anything, including the Mosaic Law, which Scripture clearly declares an enmity against us, is in serious error, and is not Christian by definition.

That is, of course, assuming you view Scripture as infallible and inerrant, superintended by the Third Person in the Trinity.

For me, there is no doubt, that the Covenant nation Israel ended, chronologically, at Jesus' act of sacrifice at the cross. (Eph 2) And now...I too...shall be stoned alongside my Saviour.

 

[muffler dragon]

Christians Forums plus Liberal Theology, does not, to me at least, equal Judaism or anything that resembles it.

Who said it did?

Any message that attempts to replace the work of the cross in any way is a serious error standing opposed to the gospel brought by Christ and explained clearly by the Apostles.

Maybe there will be a point to this statement in the following lines...

Judaism even today, symbolically, would stone Christ; that is to deny the work of the cross.

It appears that you have some issues regarding Judaism.

What is the truth about the OT sabbaths? It was a sign of the Covenant between the LORD and His covenant nation Israel. What is the truth about the sabbath rest for Children of God? The prescribed sabbaths were a sign, in the same way that God resting on the seventh day was a sign foreshadowing the believer's rest in Christ.

Just to let you know, anything that needs the Letter to the Hebrews for its defense is something I would be slightly weary of.

Jesus, fully God, fully man, fulfilled the Law. He nailed its decrees to the cross, an act that benefits all who will believe. His shed blood purchased redemption from the sin debt for all who will believe. There is a New Covenant...in Christ's blood...alone. A believer shall be declared righteous by faith...not by the Law. Anyone who depends on any one point of the Law for salvation, or sanctification, or to prove oneself redeemed, stands condemned already. By turning to the Law for superintending, or salvation or sanctification, it is as if you crucify Christ again. Christ died once, for all. The Law is a curse. The Law is our enmity. the Law is a burden. The Law is decrees against us. The Law is a yoke of bondage. The Law, and its sabbaths, foreshadowed the accomplishment of Christ at the cross. Since Christ's act of His shed blood, His death at Calvary, the Law has only one purpose. It, along with its tablets of stone, is the ministry of death, of condemnation. The New Covenant in the blood of Jesus Christ is the only one which will save. Depending on any other thing or person, or act of anyone including oneself for salvation, ensures only the opposite.

Definitely have some misunderstanding and a lot of issues with Judaism.

If you have faith in Christ alone, you are redeemed by His blood. If you do not have faith in Christ alone, you are condemned by the ministry of death. Any message that attempts to replace the gospel of the cross with anything, including the Mosaic Law, which Scripture clearly declares an enmity against us, is in serious error, and is not Christian by definition. That is, of course, assuming you view Scripture as infallible and inerrant, superintended by the Third Person in the Trinity. For me, there is no doubt, that the Covenant nation Israel ended, chronologically, at Jesus' act of sacrifice at the cross. And now...I too...shall be stoned alongside my Saviour.

And a Replacement Theologist to boot. Go figure.