JustinWindsor said:
(snip) Any message that attempts to replace the work of the cross in any way is a serious error standing opposed to the gospel brought by Christ and explained clearly by the Apostles.
The "work of the cross"? The cross isn't special. Millions of people, Jews and Gentiles died on a cross at the hands of the Roman government. It was a fate saved for political threats and people meant to be made an example of. Just think, how would Jesus feel if he were looking at how the cross has become an object of worship and reverence over the years?
Jesus could not have been a sin sacrifice. The Torah makes that clear
"But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. "I and the Father are one." The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. (John 10:26-31)
Judaism even today, symbolically, would stone Christ; that is to deny the work of the cross.
I would not stone Jesus. I like his message, just a message that most mainstream Christians that I have seen seek to destroy: Torah alone.
What is the truth about the OT sabbaths? It was a sign of the Covenant between the LORD and His covenant nation Israel.
But the Sabbath is meant for -everyone- who follows YHWH:
Exodus 20
8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 You shall labor six days, and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to Yahweh your God. You shall not do any work in it, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your man-servant, nor your maid-servant, nor your cattle, nor the Gentile who is among you; 11 for in six days Yahweh made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore Yahweh blessed the Sabbath day, and made it holy.
Isaiah 56
1 Thus says Yahweh, Keep you justice, and do righteousness; for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. 2 Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who holds it fast; who keeps the Sabbath from profaning it, and keeps his hand from doing any evil. 3 Neither let the foreigner, who has joined himself to Yahweh, speak, saying, Yahweh will surely separate me from his people; neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree. 4 For thus says Yahweh of the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and hold fast my covenant: 5 To them will I give in my house and within my walls a memorial and a name better than of sons and of daughters; I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. 6 Also the foreigners who join themselves to Yahweh, to minister to him, and to love the name of Yahweh, to be his servants, everyone who keeps the Sabbath from profaning it, and holds fast my covenant; 7 even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted on my altar; for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples. 8 The Lord Yahweh, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, says, Yet will I gather others to him, besides his own who are gathered.
When He said, A new covenant, He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 8:13)
Then Jesus was a liar when he said:
Matthew 5
17 Dont think that I came to destroy the Law (TORAH) or the Prophets (NEVYIM). I didnt come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18 For most assuredly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the Law (TORAH), until all things are accomplished. 19 Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, there is no way you will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
The last time I checked, the "Second Coming" hasn't happened yet, therefore according to the lips of Jesus, the Torah is still to be abided by.
And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us (in the clear context of the chapter, Paul is speaking of the Mosaic Law )
He was referring to the forming Mishnah, not the Mosaic Law. See above.
and which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath daythings which were a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. Colossians 2:13-17
This is one of the most misunderstood verses in the entire Bible. This was not an argument to not observe the Diet, Feasts, Rosh HaKhodeshim, and Sabbaths.
At the time of Jesus and Paul there were many forms an sects of Judaism: Pharisees, Saducees, and Essenes just to name the three most famous. Each one of them had their own seperate traditions concerning these things, and they had horrible arguments about them. To quote myself from another post:
Are you familliar with Kosher laws?
The Rabbis (at Jesus' time, Pharisees) believe that there are two Torahs that God gave to Moses on Mt. Sinai. One was the written Torah: Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy. The second was an oral tradition that Moses was to hand down, generation after generation that the Pharisees believed that they had. This is absolutely rediculous, however, as there is not even a hint of a mention of an "Oral Torah" in all of the Bible.
Now, because of these Oral Traditions, the laws of Kosher came about. Biblically speaking, there is one restriction on the consumption of meat and dairy when eaten together, and that is that one cannot eat a goat-kid cooked in it's own mother's milk. The Torah does not only say this once, but THREE times, verbatim. It's very clear: Do not cook a goat-kid in it's mother's milk. Not complicated at all.
However, today, according to Kosher laws (notice the small L), one may not eat any milk and any meat together whatsoever. This is nowhere in the Bible!
Some foods that the Pharisees would have forbidden, if they were around today, would be cheeseburgers (as the Rabbis do today). Biblically speaking, so long as it isn't a SPAMburger, cheeseburgers are perfectly alright to eat.
Another thing that the Pharisees made more complex were ritual laws of slaughter, as they believed that if an animal is not slaughtered in a specific way that it is not ritually clean. Once again, the Bible contradicts this. The only requirement is that it isn't eaten with blood.
NOW, taking this even further, there was a Pharisaic practice known as yadayim, literally "hands." It was a ritual washing of the hands, up to the elbow, while reciting a prayer that, translated means "Blessed are you LORD God, King of the Universe, who gave us the commandment to wash the hands." The Pharisees believed that if one did not wash and recite this blessing, that the food that they were about to eat was unclean and made the eater unclean. Of course, NOWHERE in the Bible are we commanded to wash our hands before each mean, NOR are we commanded to recite any such blessing, NOR does one become unclean by eating anything.
The Saducees had a beef with this, as did the Essenes. It was to such a point that they even celebrated holidays and new moons on different days under different conditions. To this day, Rabbinic Jews and Karaites use a different calendar. Where Rabbinic JEws followed a calculated calendar instated by Hillel II and celebrated Passover last weekend, Karaites, like myself, follow the Biblical luni-solar calendar, based upon the ripening of Barley in Jerusalem as commanded by God, and we celebrated Passover last lunar month.
In summary, there was never a debate as whether or not to
OBSERVE these commandments, but there was a debate and problem over
HOW. Paul was saying "Don't worry about how! Let's get along!"
"Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "Uncircumcision" by the so-called "Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by human hands-- remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one [Jew and Gentile] and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity." (Eph 2:11-16)
I've already dealt with this.
Jesus, fully God, fully man, fulfilled the Law. He nailed its decrees to the cross, an act that benefits all who will believe. His shed blood purchased redemption from the sin debt for all who will believe. There is a New Covenant...in Christ's blood...alone. A believer shall be declared righteous by faith...not by the Law. Anyone who depends on any one point of the Law for salvation, or sanctification, or to prove oneself redeemed, stands condemned already. By turning to the Law for superintending, or salvation or sanctification, it is as if you crucify Christ again. Christ died once, for all. The Law is a curse. The Law is our enmity. the Law is a burden. The Law is decrees against us. The Law is a yoke of bondage.
The Law CANNOT be a yoke of bondage. YHWH, himself says so:
Leviticus 26
2 You shall keep my Sabbaths, and have reverence for my sanctuary. I am Yahweh.
3 If you walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them; 4 then I will give you your rains in their season, and the land shall yield its increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit. 5 Your threshing shall reach to the vintage, and the vintage shall reach to the sowing time; and you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.
6 I will give peace in the land, and you shall lie down, and no one will make you afraid; and I will remove evil animals out of the land, neither shall the sword go through your land. 7 You shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword. 8 Five of you shall chase a hundred, and a hundred of you shall chase ten thousand; and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword.
9 I will have respect for you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you, and will establish my covenant with you. 10 You shall eat old store long kept, and you shall move out the old because of the new. 11 I will set my tent among you: and my soul wont abhor you. 12 I will walk among you, and will be your God, and you will be my people. 13 I am Yahweh your God, who brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, that you should not be their slaves; and I have broken the bars of your yoke, and made you go upright.
The ORAL LAW, however, is an unnecessary yoke that Paul and Peter didn't want to trouble the Gentiles with. Torah Alone.
Faith comes first, ALWAYS, but if one has faith one will keep the standard that God expects of us.
The Law, and its sabbaths, foreshadowed the accomplishment of Christ at the cross. Since Christ's act of His shed blood, His death at Calvary, the Law has only one purpose. It, along with its tablets of stone, is the ministry of death, of condemnation. The New Covenant in the blood of Jesus Christ is the only one which will save. Depending on any other thing or person, or act of anyone including oneself for salvation, ensures only the opposite.
I've already dealt with all of the above.
If you have faith in Christ alone, you are redeemed by His blood. If you do not have faith in Christ alone, you are condemned by the ministry of death.
I believe that one should have faith WITH Jesus. The faith OF Jesus, not a faith
about Jesus.
Any message that attempts to replace the gospel of the cross with anything, including the Mosaic Law, which Scripture clearly declares an enmity against us, is in serious error, and is not Christian by definition.
That is, of course, assuming you view Scripture as infallible and inerrant, superintended by the Third Person in the Trinity.
For me, there is no doubt, that the Covenant nation Israel ended, chronologically, at Jesus' act of sacrifice at the cross. (Eph 2) And now...I too...shall be stoned alongside my Saviour.
1) ~Blink blink blink~ Who will pick up a stone against you?
2) The trinity is not spelled out in the Bible and "hints" are not solid grounds for doctrine.
3) According to Jesus, not all has happened, therefore the Torah is still in effect.
Peace,
-Steve-o
