Sunday Sabbath?

[muffler dragon]

You've clearly stated that you disagree with the Apostle Paul's teaching. Therefore, as observed previously, you don't accept the New Testament as inspired and infallible. In the absence of that presupposition being shared by us both, continuing in this debate, or in your 'replacement theology' debate would by quite useless.

I believe the Apostles when they say that there is no other gospel except the one we've been given through them. You don't.

I didn't figure you would ever defend your position (here or on my other thread). Btw, the Replacement Theology and Anti-Semitism is basically my analysis on why the belief is Anti-Semitic. If that ruffles your feathers, then come over and prove me wrong.

Other than that, it's been meaningless.

 

[JustinWindsor]

with New Testament Scripture, which you choose to ignore. You are correct though, this discussion has been meaningless.

 

[muffler dragon]

with New Testament Scripture, which you choose to ignore. You are correct though, this discussion has been meaningless.

Should I expect you to defend your position with "New" Testament Scripture in my thread or just going to avoid that one as well?

 

[JustinWindsor]

Some New Testament Scripture in 'your' thread. I don't expect it will change your mind any more than any other New Testament Scripture you've seen has.

The following passage is from Galatians 3;

15Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed,"[g] meaning one person, who is Christ. 17What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

19What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator. 20A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one.

21Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. 23Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ[h] that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law

 

[muffler dragon]

Try posting some commentary with a passage. I could cut and paste the entire Tanakh. What good does that do in a DIALOGUE?

 

[biblelighthouse]

There are multiple reasons Christians should keep the Sabbath. Here is a fairly brief article which shows several specific Scripture references:

http://www.biblelighthouse.com/sabbath.htm

The sabbath was important in Genesis 2.
The sabbath was important in Exodus 16, *before* the 10 commandments were given.
The sabbath was important for Israel from Mt. Sinai until Christ.
Christ obeyed the sabbath.
Jesus also told his followers that the sabbath would still be in effect at the end of the age.
Isaiah also prophecied that the sabbath would be in effect, even under the new covenant.
Isaiah even prophecied that the sabbath would be in effect in the new heavens and new earth.

 

[Eph425mlohr]

In answer to the first post of this thread. I used to think that we didnt have to keep the sabbath although questions had come to mind as to why we dont when in Matthew 5:17&18 Jesus says " Do not think that I came to destory the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to detroy but to fulfill. " For assuredly, I say to you , till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

But i had dismissed this thought away until it came up again when i was confronted with the question as to should we be keeping the sabbath and if so which day? Even after reading the bible 11 times from cover to cover this was something that still required study and a search for the truth according to scripture.

I had always gone to church on a sunday although i did not know why.

So i began to study and research this topic from various sources but of course basing it all on the bible
and my conclusion was that we should still be keeping the sabbath and on the seventh day being saturday...why did i reach these conclusions?

Exodus 20:8-11 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work,....

I had always known that saturday was the seventh day of the week since being taught it at primary school but it can also be found in the dictionary the defintion on saturday. After further research I have learnt why protestants go to church on sunday and why some people keep sunday as sabbath and i think i will jus use quotes for this one so you know this is not jus my opinion but facts spoken of from various resources there are too many to put all here but here is a few.

"Most Christians assume that Sunday is the biblically approved day of worship. The Catholic Church protests that it transferred Christian worship from the biblical Sabbath (Saturday) to Sunday, and that to try to argue that the change was made in the Bible is both dishonest and a denial of Catholic authority. If Protestantism wants to base its teachings only on the Bible, it should worship on Saturday." Rome's Challenge www.immaculateheart.com/maryonline Dec 2003

"The Sunday...is purely a creation of the Catholic Church." American Catholic Quarterly Review , January 1883

"Sunday...is the law of the Catholic Church alone..." American Sentinel (Catholic) , June 1893.

"Sunday is our mark or authority...the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact." Catholic Record of London , Ontario, September 1, 1923.

"It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church." Priest Brady, in an address reported in The News, Elizabeth, New Jersey, March 18, 1903.

There are many more statments like these that are very intereseting that i found on http://www.godssabbathtruth.com/chapter22.html there are to many for me to put them all here.

So after discovering this I would much rather keep a commandment of God then a commandment of man.

Why do i belive we should still keep the sabbath.
Romans 6:14-15 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Since i know im saved by grace because Jesus paid the penatly for my sins so they could be forgiven i do not want to go on sinning.

1 John 3:4 GNB Whoever sins is guilty of breaking God's law, because sin is a breaking of the law.

the law is like a mirror that points out and shows us what our sin is so i want to obey all of God's commandments because i dont want to go on sinning and because i love God.
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

There is alot more detail that i could go into on this matter but i dont want to make this post too long. Just a short version. =)

Might i also add that I have nothing against people of the Roman Catholic church and believe that there are many true and beautiful christians in all denominations.

 

[KCDAD]

The sabbath is a Hebrew holiday... it is our Saturday. Christians celebrate worship on Sunday because they believe Jesus rose on a Sunday beginning not only a new week but a new world. Also there is the idea that Christians wanted to differentiate themselves from non-Christians and going to worship often times included those things the fundamentalists considered "work"... travel, managing a team of animals, etc.

Eighth day? What does that mean? What is significant about the eighth day? (Because woman was created after the 7th day?)

 

[D.W.]

The sabbath is a Hebrew holiday... it is our Saturday. Christians celebrate worship on Sunday because they believe Jesus rose on a Sunday beginning not only a new week but a new world. Also there is the idea that Christians wanted to differentiate themselves from non-Christians and going to worship often times included those things the fundamentalists considered "work"... travel, managing a team of animals, etc.

Eighth day? What does that mean? What is significant about the eighth day? (Because woman was created after the 7th day?)

Shalom,

The Sabbath is for the Hebrew pepole only, if you do not believe in the same G-d. If you believe in the one true G-d this is what he says of the gentile.
Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

G-d bless,
Dan

 

[Eph425mlohr]

The sabbath is a Hebrew holiday... it is our Saturday. Christians celebrate worship on Sunday because they believe Jesus rose on a Sunday beginning not only a new week but a new world. Also there is the idea that Christians wanted to differentiate themselves from non-Christians and going to worship often times included those things the fundamentalists considered "work"... travel, managing a team of animals, etc.

Eighth day? What does that mean? What is significant about the eighth day? (Because woman was created after the 7th day?)

The seventh day sabbath of the ten commandments, im not talking about sabbaths of the ceremonial law is the law that God has given us to show us what sin is 1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

It is confirmed by historians that Jews and Gentiles kept the seventh day Sabbath until about 120 AD, when the persecution of the Jews for keeping the seventh day sabbath was becoming so great that many Christians decided to start keeping sunday, as to escape persecution and differentiate themselves from the Jews. Since there was no biblical reason for the change some used the excuse of it being in honour of the resurrection. In 321 A.D. Constantine, who was a pagan, became Caesar in Rome and when he began to see the balance of power shift from paganism to the Church he passed the first law enforcing Sunday worship in 321 AD. Two years later he joined the Roman Catholic Church and began mingling paganism and Christianity.

Sorry if you already know some of these things ive written i jus dont quite fully know what ur viewpoint is on this topic. God bless

 

[Flatscan82]

Some Christians believe the Sabbath isn't for Christians.

Some Christians believe the Christian Sabbath is Saturday.

Some Christians beleive the Christian Sabbath is Sunday.

What do you think?

I think it is because jesus rose from the dead on sunday, also when people where being converted it was easyer for them to keep there sunday day of worship instead of saterday, because most pagens worshiped on sunday

 

[Eph425mlohr]

There doesnt seem to be much discussion going on in this thread, so jus thought id post something see what people think.

Having grown up believing I didnt have to keep the sabbath i have not blindly gone and decided that ill start keeping it without having my reasons firmly grounded on the bible i had thought that i didnt have to keep the sabbath because i did not understand the difference between the ceremonial law of God which was written in moses handwritting and put in the side of the ark of the covenant and the ten commandment law written by God's own finger and placed inside the ark.

Exodus 20:1,22 Spoken by God Himself - Exodus 24:3 Spoken by Moses.
Exodus 31:18; Exodus 32:16 Was written by God - Exodus 24:4; Deuteronomy 31:9 Written by Moses.
Exodus 31:18 On stones - Exodus 24:3, 7; Deuteronomy 31:24 In a book.
Exodus 31:18 Handed by God its writer, to Moses - Deuteronomy 31:25, 26 Handed by Moses, its writer to Levites. Deuteronomy 10:5 Deposited by Moses “in the ark” - Deuteronomy 31:26, ARV. Deposited by the Levites “by the side of the ark”.

Tables showing the difference between the Moral and the Ceremonial law and God's Character can be found on http://www.ceremoniallaw.com/

My Misunderstanding on this was mainly from Colossians 2:16 I did not relise this was talking about the ceremonial law/ordinances. So let me explain why i changed my mind about this.

Colossians 2:16 “Let no man therefore judge you in meat (offering), or in drink (offering), or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days:”

To take this passage in context you need to look at the verses before it.

Colossians 2:14 “blotting out the handwriting (has to be Moses handwriting) of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross.”

after this verse Paul then says “Let no man therefore judge you in meat (offering), or in drink (offering), or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days:”

Luke 1:6 KJV shows the Ten commandments and the ordinances were two different things, “And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.”

(note text in brackets is not in the original text but added jus to show the meaning)

It was the temporary ordinances written in Moses handwriting that were nailed to the cross not the ten commandment law written in stone that Jesus said Matthew 5:17 & 18 "one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all be fulfilled"

Yes there were many sabbaths that were part of the ceremonial law that were abolished at the cross but the seventh day sabbath written in stone by God's own finger placed inside the ark of the covenant and kept in the Holy of Holies was not among these as it is not part of the ceremonial law but the seventh day sabbath commandment is written in the middle of the Ten commandments God's law of love which is an eternal law as it will never be okay to sin in heaven or forever, the law is love, God is love and God is eternal. I John 4:8 God is Love - Romans 13:10 The law is Love

Some people believe Sabbath was only for the Jews but i would have to disagree as it was made 2,300 years before there ever was a jew. In the bible it is never called the Jewish sabbath but "the Sabbath of the Lord thy God." Exodus 31:18 Sabbath was made at creation (Genisis 2:1-3) It was made before the fall of man, therefore is not a shadow or type astypes were not till after the fall of man Mark 2:27 Jesus says the sabbath was made for man not it was made for the Jew but man being the race of man including Jews and Gentiles. Sabbath is a memorial of creation (Exodus 20:11; 31:17.)

Some people think that if you keep the sabbath you are puttin your self under the law but from the start I have always belived that I am under grace and not the law and this is still my belief but perhaps i need to clarify what i mean by this.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid
Paul puts in clearly because we are under grace should we now sin "God forbid" , the bible tells us that to break the law is to sin 1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
As the bible says I wouldnt know what sin was unless the law had said eg do not covet
Because i am now under grace meaning i am no longer condemned but free of my punishment because Jesus bore my penalty when he died on the cross for me, I will not go on breaking God's commandments because to love God is to obey him. The whole point is when we sin we can now be forgiven not we now have a licence or permission to go & sin because Jesus died so we could be forgiven.

I'd be interested to hear what people think about some of the things ive written.

 

[KCDAD]

I'd be interested to hear what people think about some of the things ive written.

You bring up a great point of understanding...

The Law is not a "don't do this or else" command, it is "if you walk with God, or want to walk with God, this is what your life will be like" PROMISE.
SO the law does point out our sin, or our failings to achieve what God wants for us... it is not because we do those things (or sin) that we are out of favor with God, but because we are out of fellowship with God that these sins are manifest in our lives.

Chew on that for awhile and tell me what you think?

 

[Eph425mlohr]

You bring up a great point of understanding...

The Law is not a "don't do this or else" command, it is "if you walk with God, or want to walk with God, this is what your life will be like" PROMISE.
SO the law does point out our sin, or our failings to achieve what God wants for us... it is not because we do those things (or sin) that we are out of favor with God, but because we are out of fellowship with God that these sins are manifest in our lives.

Chew on that for awhile and tell me what you think?

Yes I would have to say that when we are walking with God and love him we would want to obey him, keeping his commandments is a fruit and a result of our love and obediance to God. When we are walking with God and obeying him I belive there is a blessing in that and our life will be more joyous (the result of our obedience is life) I think that when people don't have that connection to God and personal relationship with him sins our manifest in there lives because if you stop following God or walking with him His power in your life to help you not to sin but to obey him may not be there, because your not asking for his help obviously when ur out of a relationship with him and walking according to the ways of the world and not his commandments. So I think the law is a great thing God has given us to point out what sin is it's by the moral law that we get our morals from and tells us how to love God and how to love people, i like to think of the ten commandments as a law of love.

There is a good site i have visited about the ten commandments. www.gods10commandments.com

 

[D.W.]

When we walk with G-d and do his commands we show our love for him in that way. When we do things that are displeasing to G-d then he turns away from us because it is abhorrent to him. When he turns away then his love no longer surrounds us and therefore cannot protect us. That's when our grievances begin.
G-d bless

 

[KCDAD]

Who is G-d? Do you call your father D-d?

 

[D.W.]

Who is G-d? Do you call your father D-d?

You spell Yeshua as Jesus, and now your telling me how I should spell Elohim. How do you spell elohim?

 

[KCDAD]

You spell Yeshua as Jesus, and now your telling me how I should spell Elohim. How do you spell elohim?

gods

 

[D.W.]

gods

Shalom,

That clears that up. Now tell me why does it bother you how I spell the Title G-d.

G-d bless,
Dan

 

[KCDAD]

Shalom,

That clears that up. Now tell me why does it bother you how I spell the Title G-d.

G-d bless,
Dan

Not that it bothers me that you do that, but that too many people think that the title IS the name... like the post about people saying god or christ is using God's name in vain. My point is that I have never heard anyone use YHWH in a film vainly. (Albeit everything is rather vain in movies.)