Sunday Is Not the Sabbath

[BobRyan]

One of the most appealing teachings of the Seventh-day Adventist denomination is their insistence that Christians must obey the Ten Commandments . . . all ten of them. They rightly expose the errant thinking among many Protestant Christian sects that claims, “We don’t have to keep the Ten Commandments for salvation anymore.”
One of the most appealing teachings of the Seventh-day Adventist denomination is their insistence that Christians must obey the Ten Commandments . . . all ten of them. They rightly expose the errant thinking among many Protestant Christian sects that claims, “We don’t have to keep the Ten Commandments for salvation anymore.”

Of course, as Jesus reminds us:

And behold, one came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?” And [Jesus] said to him . . . “If you would enter life, keep the commandments” (Matt. 19:16-17).

Given our agreement on this point, the Seventh-day Adventist commonly asks: “If you believe we have to keep the Fourth (our Third) Commandment, why aren’t Catholics obliged to attend Mass on Saturdays

...

That is from the OP --

Consider staying on topic

 

[Michie]

That is from the OP --

Consider staying on topic

Consider reading closer. I started the thread but have not participated.

 

[ozso]

The only "methodology" Ellen White ever promoted is to read the Bible pray for God to lead you and accept what it says.

I don't think she "invented" that idea.

you need an actual fact to support your accusations.

What about all the visions and messages from an angel EGW claimed to have had? That's a bit more than just a routine study of scripture, which led to an interpretation that went against virtually all other scripture reading Christians.
As to you all being on the same page, why would you find that offensive? Don't you want SDA members to be in agreement?

 

[BobRyan]

Consider reading closer. I started the thread but have not participated.

Sorry about that - I was responding to those who are recently posting - and simply quoted from the OP to promote staying on topic

 

[The Liturgist]

By the way @Ordinary Christian based on your excellent work in this thread I will, as soon as I am feeling better, give you the links you had requested in that other thread, unless @dzheremi is able to do it, because I see now that I made a severe mistake, and beg your forgiveness. I should advise you that I have had little sleep and am feeling poorly, so it might be a while, and you can also PM me if you wish. God bless you

 

[BobRyan]

What about all the visions and messages from an angel EGW claimed to have had?

Well if the gift of prophecy does not exist according to the Bible then that would be a problem for Ellen White to have claimed to have such a 1 Cor 12 gift.

But as it is 1 Cor 12, and Eph 4 and 1 Cor 14 are chapters in the Bible the do exist and do promote NT affirmation of the gift of prophecy.

That's a bit more than just a routine study of scripture

One could certainly argue the case that all the 1 Cor 14 prophets in the church and all the inspired writers of the NT meant that the sola scriptura testing affirmed in Acts 17:11, and in Mark 7:7-13 etc - should be rejected as "not a thing" in the NT church.

But a great many 100s of millions of Christians today would know that that sort of "idea" does not get off the ground.

, which led to an interpretation that went against virtually all other scripture reading Christians.

not true.

As to you all being on the same page, why would you find that offensive? Don't you want SDA members to be in agreement?

Being in agreement is not the problem. We all love unity in Christ and affirmation of the truth.

But we never claim things along the lines of "Jesus loves me this I know for Ellen White told us so" as you seem to speculate.

 

[BobRyan]

As to you all being on the same page, why would you find that offensive? Don't you want SDA members to be in agreement?

Take a VERY close look at the OP -

Start with the first part - so then keeping it simple.

One of the most appealing teachings of the Seventh-day Adventist denomination is their insistence that Christians must obey the Ten Commandments . . . all ten of them. They rightly expose the errant thinking among many Protestant Christian sects that claims, “We don’t have to keep the Ten Commandments for salvation anymore.”
One of the most appealing teachings of the Seventh-day Adventist denomination is their insistence that Christians must obey the Ten Commandments . . . all ten of them. They rightly expose the errant thinking among many Protestant Christian sects that claims, “We don’t have to keep the Ten Commandments for salvation anymore.”

Of course, as Jesus reminds us:

And behold, one came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?” And [Jesus] said to him . . . “If you would enter life, keep the commandments” (Matt. 19:16-17).

Given our agreement on this point, the Seventh-day Adventist commonly asks: “If you believe we have to keep the Fourth (our Third) Commandment, why aren’t Catholics obliged to attend Mass on Saturdays

It starts with Michie and Liturgist apparently saying "Given our agreement on this point..."

Is it your claim that Liturgist and Michie are just "believing what Ellen White tells them to believe" on that point?

IS THAT how they get to "agreement"???

It seems to me you are skimming over a great many details to get to the kinds of accusations you make.

BTW ALL the following groups affirm ALL TEN -- not because we earn salvation by not taking God's name in vain - but because as Matt 7 says the good tree produces the good fruit of being in harmony with God and not at war with God's Word.

=========================


To limit derailing of this thread - I have started another thread on SDAs and how we interpret the Bible

Seventh-day Adventists discover Bible Truth

A great many Christian denominations will join the Seventh-day Adventist church in affirming the fact that the Bible can be understood by reading it, by paying attention to context, by not not inserting one's own bias and preference into the text, by pray and the indwelling Spirit of God...

www.christianforums.com

 

[BobRyan]

What about all the visions and messages from an angel EGW claimed to have had? That's a bit more than just a routine study of scripture, which led to an interpretation that went against virtually all other scripture reading Christians.
As to you all being on the same page, why would you find that offensive? Don't you want SDA members to be in agreement?

great topic - here is a thread I just created dedicated to your topic

Seventh-day Adventists discover Bible Truth

A great many Christian denominations will join the Seventh-day Adventist church in affirming the fact that the Bible can be understood by reading it, by paying attention to context, by not not inserting one's own bias and preference into the text, by pray and the indwelling Spirit of God...

www.christianforums.com

 

[ozso]

Well if the gift of prophecy does not exist according to the Bible then that would be a problem for Ellen White to have claimed to have such a 1 Cor 12 gift.

But as it is 1 Cor 12, and Eph 4 and 1 Cor 14 are chapters in the Bible the do exist and do promote NT affirmation of the gift of prophecy.

So like I said, her interpretations are different from nearly all others outside of ordinary scripture study.

One could certainly argue the case that all the 1 Cor 14 prophets in the church and all the inspired writers of the NT meant that the sola scriptura testing affirmed in Acts 17:11, and in Mark 7:7-13 etc - should be rejected as "not a thing" in the NT church.


But a great many 100s of millions of Christians today would know that that sort of "idea" does not get off the ground.

Anyone can claim to be a prophet. Joseph Smith is supposedly a prophet. But whether someone is a genuine prophet or not is determined by whether or not most Christianity recognizes them as such.

not true.

Then why does SDA claim to be the set aside remnant?

Being in agreement is not the problem. We all love unity in Christ and affirmation of the truth.

But we never claim things along the lines of "Jesus loves me this I know for Ellen White told us so" as you seem to speculate.

It's we know Christians are bound to the seventh day sabbath law as Ellen White's interpretation of scripture tells us so.

 

[ozso]

great topic - here is a thread I just created dedicated to your topic

Tell the OP of this thread to stop giving me likes.

 

[ozso]

BTW ALL the following groups affirm ALL TEN -- not because we earn salvation by not taking God's name in vain - but because as Matt 7 says the good tree produces the good fruit of being in harmony with God and not at war with God's Word.

That's deceptive as none of them say Christians are bound to the seventh day sabbath law.

 

[BobRyan]

So like I said, her interpretations are different from nearly all others outside of ordinary scripture study.

She can read the Bible just like you or I. The question is your own insinuation that instead of Bible study what we have is "Jesus loves me this I know - for Ellen White tells me so" -- which is totally a false accusation.

So much so that when we give Bible studies to present our POV the only thing we present is "the Bible" , not "Ellen White wants you to believe that this means...."

Anyone can claim to be a prophet. Joseph Smith is supposedly a prophet.

Agree. Prophets have to be tested Gal 1:6-9 against scripture - no matter who is claiming to be a prophet. Even Paul was tested that way in Acts 17:11

But whether someone is a genuine prophet or not is determined by whether or not most Christianity recognizes them as such.

Not a single text in the Bible says that.

In fact there were a number of cases in the OT where the false prophets were far more popular than real and true ones.

Then why does SDA claim to be the set aside remnant?

Adventist claim that in every age there has a been what the NT calls "present truth" -
Remnant just means "that which is left".

A great many saved Christians exist today in many different denominations - but not all speculation about 'what is truth' is the same among them. There is at most one line of teaching that is correct, and there is at worst no line of teaching that is correct.

It's we know Christians are bound to the seventh day sabbath law as Ellen White's interpretation of scripture tells us so.

not a single source for that "but you" quoting you.

 

[BobRyan]

That's deceptive as none of them say Christians are required to keep the seventh day sabbath law.

They are the ones claiming to affirm the TEN -- your accusation against them ... noted

Feel free to quote something in your post... like for example the Sabbath commandment.

 

[ozso]

They are the ones claiming to affirm the TEN -- your accusation against them ... noted

Which ones actually say that Christians are bound to the seventh day sabbath law?

 

[The Liturgist]

Take a VERY close look at the OP -

Start with the first part - so then keeping it simple.





It starts with Michie and Liturgist apparently saying "Given our agreement on this point..."

Is it your claim that Liturgist and Michie are just "believing what Ellen White tells them to believe" on that point?

IS THAT how they get to "agreement"???

It seems to me you are skimming over a great many details to get to the kinds of accusations you make.

BTW ALL the following groups affirm ALL TEN -- not because we earn salvation by not taking God's name in vain - but because as Matt 7 says the good tree produces the good fruit of being in harmony with God and not at war with God's Word.

=========================


To limit derailing of this thread - I have started another thread on SDAs and how we interpret the Bible

Seventh-day Adventists discover Bible Truth

A great many Christian denominations will join the Seventh-day Adventist church in affirming the fact that the Bible can be understood by reading it, by paying attention to context, by not not inserting one's own bias and preference into the text, by pray and the indwelling Spirit of God...

www.christianforums.com

I can assure you that EGW does not influence my beliefs any more than St. Nicodemus the Hagiorite influences your beliefs. I would assume the same is the case for Michie, albeit I would suggest the great Roman Catholic moral theologian St. Alphonsus Ligouri in his case (I greatly admire St. Alphonsus; he, along with St. Philip Neri, and St. Charles Borromeo, are among my favorite saints of the late 16th through late 18th centuries).

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Which ones actually say that Christians are bound to the seventh day sabbath law?

I think the better question is where does it say God's people do not keep God's commandments? Do we keep God's commandments because its a commandment or through faith and love?

The same faith/love that keeps us from not worshipping other gods
The same faith/love that doesn't bow to false images
The same faith/love that does not vain God's holy name
The same faith/love the keeps the Sabbath day holy, the one God said Remember
The same faith/love that honors our father and mother
The same faith/love that does not murder
The same faith/love that doesn't commit adultery
The same faith/love that does not steal
The same faith/love that does not lie
The same faith/love that does not covet

Because God said so and we believe Him.

Do you think God is looking for those who keep the least of His commandments. Matthew 5:19-30. Obedience has always been through faith and Jesus said the Sabbath was made for mankind, so that means you and me, if we are to believe the very words of Jesus. Love to God is keeping His commandments 1 John 5:3 and those with faith uphold the law Romans 3:31 its the fruit of a saved person Rev 14:12

 

[ozso]

I think the better question is where does it say God's people do not keep God's commandments? Do we keep God's commandments because its a commandment or through faith and love?

The same faith/love that keeps us from not worshipping other gods
The same faith/love that doesn't bow to false images
The same faith/love that does not vain God's holy name
The same faith/love the keeps the Sabbath day holy, the one God said Remember
The same faith/love that honors our father and mother
The same faith/love that does not murder
The same faith/love that doesn't commit adultery
The same faith/love that does not steal
The same faith/love that does not lie
The same faith/love that does not covet

Because God said so and we believe Him.

Do you think God is looking for those who keep the least of His commandments. Matthew 5:19-30. Obedience has always been through faith and Jesus said the Sabbath was made for mankind, so that means you and me, if we are to believe the very words of Jesus. Love to God is keeping His commandments 1 John 5:3 and those with faith uphold the law Romans 3:31 its the fruit of a saved person Rev 14:12

Is that your way of not having to admit none of them actually say that Christians are bound to the seventh day sabbath law?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Is that your way of not having to admit none of them actually say that Christians are bound to the seventh day sabbath law?

It shows that not everyone has faith, which is how we are saved, not by law keeping. How can we have faith, but not enough faith to believe the teachings of Jesus? Did Jesus ever tell us we don't need to keep the Sabbath commandment? You would need a thus saith the Lord for that because God blessed the Sabbath day that He hallowed Exodus 20:11 and man can't reverse a blessing. Num 23:20. Jesus kept the Sabbath His whole life and all of His Fathers commandments and is our example to follow. 1 John 2:6 John 15:10 If you read the scripture carefully, you will find most scripture regarding God's holy Sabbath day from the beginning to the end is a thus saith the Lord. We should believe the very words that come out of God's mouth because He is our Creator and our Savior and knows what is best for us. He wants to spend time with man on the day He set aside and sanctified for holy use because we cannot sanctify ourselves, only God can. Eze 20:12 and without spending quality time with someone we don't know them and God wants to know us. 1 John 2:3-4 He gave us 6 days to do all our work and labors Exodus 20:9 and only asks for one full day back Exodus 20:8-11 and sadly that is too much for the majority of people.

 

[BobRyan]

I can assure you that EGW does not influence my beliefs

I hoped we would all be able to see that point

More specifically you are not affirming the TEN - all TEN -- because Ellen White told you to do it.

 

[BobRyan]

Which ones actually say that Christians are bound to the seventh day sabbath law?

Almost all Christian denominations affirm all TEN -- this is beyond dispute when you take the time to read their own claims.

what you are really saying is "which ones say it is ok to EDIT the TEN".

More specifically you are arguing that Adventists could not possibly know NOT to EDIT the Commandments of God (like the Seventh-day Baptists knew it BEFORE the Adventists) -- without having the Sunday-keeping Ellen White first object to the idea of not editing the Commandments then later realizing that it makes no sense to edit God's commandments just as the Seventh-day Baptist had been saying as they were convincing Adventst-after-Adventist of this glaringly obvious Bible detail..

Christ Himself makes this "do not edit the Commandments of God with your traditions" argument in Mark 7:7-13 --- but to see it you would need to be interested in reading the Bible on this topic, actual historic and biblical facts on the subject.