Sunday Is Not the Sabbath

[BobRyan]

Not being homogeneous with any other Christian denomination

All denominations have at least one distinctive view.

The idea that this would be a "surprise" to some -- is indeed a "surprise to many"

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I'm not confusing anything. The Apostolic church was started by the Apostles. And then the Apostolic Fathers such as Cement, Ignatius and Polycarp, whom the Apostles personally taught and chose as their successors took over. That's what I go by, the writings of the Apostles and Apostolic Fathers of the 1st and 2nd century one and only Church of Jesus Christ. They are the ones who abolished circumcision and they are the ones who instituted Sunday worship. Not Constantine in 321 like EGW led you to believe.

The apostles did start the first church and God’s Church has always been a remnant and commandment-keeping. Rev 12:17 The Church the apostles started were Sabbath-keeping Christians Acts 13:42, Acts 13:44, Acts 18:4 because they were followers of Christ. Luke 4:16, John 15:10, 1 John 2:6. God’s Church follows God and does not change His Word Isaiah 8:20 because no man could possibly improve on what God has given His people. God is the Authority, not man. The apostles did warn us what would happen after their death Acts 20:29 and we see history lining up with God’s Word.

 

[BobRyan]

*Permission to post in full*​

If we believe we have to "honor the Sabbath day," why aren’t Catholics obliged to attend Mass on Saturday instead of Sunday?​

@The Liturgist

One of the most appealing teachings of the Seventh-day Adventist denomination is their insistence that Christians must obey the Ten Commandments . . . all ten of them. They rightly expose the errant thinking among many Protestant Christian sects that claims, “We don’t have to keep the Ten Commandments for salvation anymore.”

Of course, as Jesus reminds us:


Given our agreement on this point, the Seventh-day Adventist commonly asks: “If you believe we have to keep the Fourth (our Third) Commandment, why aren’t Catholics obliged to attend Mass on Saturdays instead of Sunday?”

Certainly the number of Christian denominations affirming all TEN of the TEN Commandments is very large -- (even Sunday keeping denominations do that).

As noted many times --
Almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today
[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy
[*]R.C. Sproul
[*]many others as well..

================= since the OP is so focused on the Catholic Church scenario...

In a recent Catholic church newsletter it stated, "Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. 'The Day of the Lord' [dies domini] was chosen, not from any direction noted in the Scriptures, but from the Church's sense of its own power..... People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become [Seventh-Day] Adventists, and keep Saturday holy." Saint Catherine Catholic Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995.


=====
. (from "The Faith Explained" page 243.))

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

You know Bob, frankly, very few people inside or outside the Roman Catholic Church care about what was printed in the newsletter of a parish in a tiny Michigan town of less than 5,000 residents more than 28 years ago.

You know liturgist,
1 - the idea that the only thing posted above is from a church in Michigan - comes as a surprise to some of those reading this thread.
2. the idea that the well-known commentary on the Catholic Catechism "The Faith Explained" is not known to a any Catholics except those in one parish in Michigan (instead of to a great many Catholics as a reference) -- is a surprise to those who have read Catholic statements on that book.

3. The idea that the Catholic Catechism's own statement on the "Change" is in perfect harmony with what we find in the Faith Explained and also Saint Catherine Catholic Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995. is not a surprise to us ... even though it does not fit with your claims in the OP

 

[BobRyan]

We do not keep the commandments for salvation, they should be kept because Jesus changes us from the inside and we want to keep them through love and faith. 1 John 5:3, Romans 3:31 Rev 14:12


Scripture will always trump any man-made document and what does scripture say. Can one of the Ten Commandments be changed by man?

amen

No way!

Deut 4:2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you.

We are not to edit God's commandments or any of His Word Proverbs 30:5-6 and in doing so is directly in conflict with God's Word. Man cannot improve on God's works Exodus 32:16 that God Himself wrote and spoke. Deut 4:13 We are warned if we go away from God's Word, there is no light Isaiah 8:20

amen

There is more than one Sabbath in scripture.

there are the annual Sabbaths in Lev 23 -- all of which are "Given in animal sacrifice" in Lev 23 by contrast to the weekly Sabbath of Gen 2:2-3 given without animal sacrifice as Ex 20:8-11 points out. (as well as Ex 16)

There is more than one Sabbath in the Bible. There is the weekly Sabbath that is a commandment of God and part of God’s eternal Ten Commandments and the annual sabbath(s) that are the yearly feasts days and are ordinances. The weekly Sabbath came before sin Genesis 2:1-3 the annual sabbath(s) was because of sin- after the fall.

Good point -

 

[The Liturgist]

Not being homogeneous with any other Christian denomination, is what makes it the remnant that God set aside according to what I've been told.

Indeed, but my point is that there is an unusual lack of diversity of tolerated interpretations of Scripture within the SDA, compared to within Roman Catholicism, Eastern and Oriental Orthodoxy, the Assyrian Church of the East, Lutheranism, Anglicanism, Calvinism, the Baptists, Methodists, Congregationalists and other denominations.

 

[The Liturgist]

no - nether is Paul "Scripture" in fact we are missing at least one of his letters entirely.

Scripture is inspired by God not by Paul or by Ellen White.

Wait a second - are you saying the SDA does not regard the epistles of the Holy Apostle Paul as inspired scripture?

 

[ozso]

false

That must mean SDA history regarding that is false then.

 

[BobRyan]

I'm not confusing anything. The Apostolic church was started by the Apostles. And then the Apostolic Fathers such as Cement, Ignatius and Polycarp, whom the Apostles personally taught and chose as their successors took over. That's what I go by, the writings of the Apostles and Apostolic Fathers

consider sticking with the scriptures...

Acts 20:29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore, be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears.

1 Tim 1:3 Just as I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, to remain on at Ephesus so that you would instruct certain people not to teach strange doctrines, 4 nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to useless speculation rather than advance the plan of God, which is by faith, so I urge you now. 5 But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from a sincere faith. 6 Some people have strayed from these things and have turned aside to fruitless discussion, 7 wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith that was once for all time handed down to the saints. 4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into indecent behavior and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

3 John 1:9 I wrote something to the church; but Diotrephes, who loves to be first among them, does not accept what we say. 10 For this reason, if I come, I will call attention to his deeds which he does, unjustly accusing us with malicious words; and not satisfied with this, he himself does not receive the brothers either, and he forbids those who want to do so and puts them out of the church.


No wonder Christ shows us how to 'Slam hammer' the supposedly infallible traditions that creep in using the "sola scriptura" method He demonstrates in Mark 7:7-13

 

[BobRyan]

Do you consider the writings of EGW to be Scripture?

no - nether is Paul "Scripture" in fact we are missing at least one of his letters entirely.

Scripture is inspired by God not by Paul or by Ellen White.

The many prophets in 1 Cor 14 were ALSO "not scripture", they were inspired by God and none of them wrote text that was added to the Bible

Because at a minimum, even a completely impartial observer would be forced to conclude they exert a strong influence on SDA interpretation of Scripture.

The idea that two people are not allowed to agree on what the Bible says in this or that text - if one of them is inspired by God - is not a Bible teaching found in any Christian denomination on planet Earth.

Have you thought that through - at all?.
============ you responded

Wait a second - are you saying the SDA does not regard the epistles of the Holy Apostle Paul as inspired scripture?

nope that is not what I am saying -- even your tiny snip of my post does not show that.

Paul is not scripture - rather he is an inspired writer, he is one of the writers of the books of scripture -- even so some of his letters (which we do not have) were not included in scripture. God is the author of scripture and that is very different from "Paul IS scripture" as most of us know.

 

[BobRyan]

EGW changed the way scripture is interpreted

false

That must mean SDA history regarding that is false then.

nope... it means your "spin" -- your "false accusation" lacks a fact.

 

[ozso]

All denominations have at least one distinctive view.

That idea that this would be a "surprise" to some -- is indeed a "surprise to many"

Some views and what goes along with them stand out far more significantly than others. SDA has one of the, if not the, most significant and controversial counter views of any major denomination that's not considered a cult.

 

[ozso]

false

nope... it means your "spin" -- your "false accusation" lacks a fact.

Nope I just read what an SDA website had to say. I always strive for objectivity, so I always get my info from the horse's mouth rather than from someone's spin.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Some views and what goes along with them stand out far more significantly than others. SDA has one of the, if not the, most significant and controversial counter views of any major denomination that's not considered a cult.

Amen, thankfully we don’t follow the crowd, but instead follow scripture and God’s Word, the path we are told to take. Palms 119:105. We are warned there would be a great falling away 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3. God is calling us back to worship Him in Truth and Spirit John 4:23-24 and not false worship, which is following traditions over the commandments of God. Matthew 15:3-9

 

[ozso]

Amen, thankfully we don’t follow the crowd, but instead follow scripture and God’s Word, the path we are told to take. Palms 119:105. We are warned there would be a great falling away 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3. God is calling us back to worship Him in Truth and Spirit John 4:23-24 and not false worship, which is following traditions over the commandments of God. Matthew 15:3-9

SDA follows scripture according to EGW's methodology. Just as every other denomination with a 19th century American prophet follows the methodology of their prophet.

I've read your interpretation of scripture. And I've read EGW's interpretation of scripture. They both match.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

SDA follows scripture according to EGW's methodology. Just as every other denomination with a 19th century American prophet follows the methodology of their prophet.

I've read your interpretation of scripture. And I've read EGW's interpretation of scripture. They both match.

You can keep thinking that, but its not true. EGW wrote 100,000 pages you read all of that? I am impressed, I can barely get through a book because it is so long and detailed and I spend most of my time reading the Bible.

God gave the Sabbath commandment, not EGW. God spoke it, God wrote it and it is part of His eternal law that is kept in the Most Holy of His Temple Rev 11:19 that cannot be edited in any way. Deut 4:2 Man cannot improve of God's perfect work. Exodus 32:16 and to think they can is not coming from God. Isaiah 8:20

 

[ozso]

You can keep thinking that, but its not true. EGW wrote 100,000 pages you read all of that? I am impressed, I can barely get through a book because it is so long and detailed and I spend most of my time reading the Bible.

God gave the Sabbath commandment, not EGW. God spoke it, God wrote it and it is part of His eternal law that is kept in the Most Holy of His Temple Rev 11:19 that cannot be edited in any way. Deut 4:2 Man cannot improve of God's perfect work. Exodus 32:16 and to think they can is not coming from God. Isaiah 8:20

No I just read an SDA overview of her interpretations regarding scripture and the Sabbath. Yours follows that pattern, as does Bob's and as did LGW's and as does Doug Batchelor's. Of course you're all on the same page. It wouldn't be such a unified denomination if you all weren't.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No I just read an SDA overview of her interpretations regarding scripture and the Sabbath. Yours follows that pattern, as does Bob's and as did LGW's and as does Doug Batchelor's. Of course you're all on the same page. It wouldn't be such a unified denomination if you all weren't.

You probably do not know this, but Pastor Doug Batchelor was a former atheist, his dad was a billionaire and sent him to Catholic school as a kid and he never heard of EGW but started studying scripture when someone left a bible in a cave, he was living in. He became an Adventist because of scripture like millions of others. I think its best not to assume.

I know a ton of people who became Seventh Day Adventists just from reading the bible and never even heard of EGW, you are not correct.

Here's just a few...

Former Catholic...

Former Atheist

Former signed Rapper

There are millions of similar stories

 

[BobRyan]

Nope I just read what an SDA website had to say. I always strive for objectivity,

sounds good.

But it looks like you still jumped into false accusation. Why not give an actual fact with it??

so I always get my info from the horse's mouth

Hmm -- so the General Conference of the Seventh-day Adventist church said "Ellen White changed the way the Bible is interpreted"??

Seriously?

Is that spin or fact in your POV?

rather than from someone's spin.

Ok so then we are waiting for that horses'-mouth official statement of the church , because right now I am not seeing it.

I have said that this or that church leader has "made a mistake" in some area in the past - but you have not given enough info for me to even say that so far... all you are giving us is that you are making a false accusation.

It is to your benefit to give an actual fact.

 

[BobRyan]

No I just read an SDA overview of her interpretations regarding scripture and the Sabbath. Yours follows that pattern, as does Bob's

It appears that your argument is that differing with you means that Ellen White must have changed how the Bible is to be interpreted then you simply decorating your false accusation. Why not give an actual argument, a fact.

It wouldn't be such a unified denomination if you all weren't.

If the argument is that to agree with someone is wrong, or to agree with someone if they claim God stated something ... is wrong then we have a problem with much more than just one denomination.

 

[BobRyan]

SDA follows scripture according to EGW's methodology.

The only "methodology" Ellen White ever promoted is to read the Bible, pay attention to "context", pray for God to lead you and accept what it says.

I don't think she "invented" that idea.

you need an actual fact to support your accusations.