Study shows most Americans blame government mistakes, not guns, for Florida shooting

[variant]

When you subtract urban gun violence and gang crime, the rest of America has similar gun homicide rates as many of the most docile developed countries.

Mass shootings like the one in Parkland aren't "urban gun violence" but they are fairly usually american.

Other countries have cities though, so I'm not sure why you think we should subtract ours to get a fair comparison.

 

[Bio-Luminescent Billy]

Yes, I'm assuming the government isn't perpetuating shootings because I have absolutely no evidence that they are.

Operation Northwoods - Wikipedia

It would be silly to pretend as though the thought hasn't been tossed around before, or since.

 

[variant]

Operation Northwoods - Wikipedia

It would be silly to pretend as though the thought hasn't been tossed around before, or since.

And that is evidence that the government has ever done such a thing? Someone in the CIA planned something like it one time and was rejected?

You're a bit down the rabbit hole.

 

[Bio-Luminescent Billy]

Mass shootings like the one in Parkland aren't "urban gun violence" but they are fairly usually american.

Other countries have cities though, so I'm not sure why you think we should subtract ours to get a fair comparison.

Do they have cities with lax laws on crime, and high density, welfare dependent minorities? Because if so, then they likely have similar rates of violence, even if it's not gun violence.

And the Parkland style shootings reflect a tiny percentage of the total number of shootings.

Also, when every level of government failed to nab this kid, despite warnings from everything except his kitchen sink; the school resource officer not confronting the shooter, allegations that up to three other Broward Cowards did nothing while the shooting was taking place; first aid responders being PREVENTED from retreiving wounded and setting up a triage until some time later; conflicting testimony from other students and teachers regarding the shooter, his attire, identity and even the number of shooters; reports that the Secret Service had been there three weeks prior having to do with the school's security; and the coincidental timing that this shooting just so happened to take place the same day they had an active shooter drill.

At this point, we're just one 'Stand Down' order away from a full blown inside job.

 

[Bio-Luminescent Billy]

And that is evidence that the government has ever done such a thing? Someone in the CIA planned something like it one time and was rejected?

You're a bit down the rabbit hole.

Tuskegee Airmen (experimenting on soldiers), Gulf of Tonkin (false flag that got us involved with Nam), Vegas shooting cover up.

 

[variant]

Do they have cities with lax laws on crime, and high density, welfare dependent minorities? Because if so, then they likely have similar rates of violence, even if it's not gun violence

They have cities so it seems odd to cherry pick the data in such a way as you proposed.

And the Parkland style shootings reflect a tiny percentage of the total number of shootings.

Also, when every level of government failed to nab this kid, despite warnings from everything except his kitchen sink; the school resource officer not confronting the shooter, allegations that up to three other Broward Cowards did nothing while the shooting was taking place; first aid responders being PREVENTED from retreiving wounded and setting up a triage until some time later; conflicting testimony from other students and teachers regarding the shooter, his attire, identity and even the number of shooters; reports that the Secret Service had been there three weeks prior having to do with the school's security; and the coincidental timing that this shooting just so happened to take place the same day they had an active shooter drill.

At this point, we're just one 'Stand Down' order away from a full blown inside job.

Yeah you're down the rabbit hole.

 

[variant]

Tuskegee Airmen (experimenting on soldiers), Gulf of Tonkin (false flag that got us involved with Nam), Vegas shooting cover up.

Well it seems you've got a conspiracy theory for every one of your pet ideas, there is no sense arguing with you then if you've already made up your mind in ways that can't be contradicted.

Have fun on ignore.

 

[Bio-Luminescent Billy]

They have cities so it seems odd to cherry pick the data in such a way as you proposed.

It goes beyond the glass and concrete that make up a city. Care to address what I actually said?

Yeah you're down the rabbit hole.

Tends to happen when you know what's going on.

 

[Bio-Luminescent Billy]

Well it seems you've got a conspiracy theory for every one of your pet ideas, there is no sense arguing with you then if you've already made up your mind in ways that can't be contradicted.

Have fun on ignore.

History is a conspiracy theory, now?

 

[Snappy1]

Is there anything CF can't blame on Conspiracy Theories and minorities?

 

[Skreeper]

History is a conspiracy theory, now?

I think you have been watching too much Alex Jones.

 

[Bio-Luminescent Billy]

Don't confuse a cliché one-liner with a counter-argument, rebuttal, refutation, or even counter-statement.

 

[Fantine]

Well, if you want to count them, include the ancillary factors that have much more to do with inner city gun violence than the guns themselves.

Also, if you want to use examples like the UK, yea they don't have as much gun violence, but home invasions are up, knife crime has been skyrocketing for a while now, muslim grooming gangs are endemic, and people are being arressted for offensive tweets, even as police have to completely stop responding to certain crimes in some towns for lack of resources.

If that's what we're going to get in exchange for our guns...I'll keep my guns.



Stand by what? All you made were baseless allegations?

I've posted documentation links dozens of times, perhaps even hundreds, but have come to realize that the burden of proof will never be satisfied for people who have already made up their minds.

Pro-gun advocates are similar to pro-Trump advocates (and indeed, they are probably often the same people.) No matter how much evidence is presented it will never convince them. But millenials seem to be immune to the "allure???" of gun culture, and they may lead the way to a better future for all of us, even those who are dragged kicking and screaming into a peaceful world.

 

[Bio-Luminescent Billy]

and they may lead the way to a better future for all of us, even those who are dragged kicking and screaming into a peaceful world.

Feel-good, moralistic authoritarianism.

We have guns. We're not going to be dragged kicking and screaming anywhere.

 

[Fantine]

A little bellicose and agressive, don't you think? The authoritarians in Washington and in state houses are the Republicans. They are trying to force guns on people who don't want them. We don't want guns on our campuses, but state legislators forced the campuses to allow them despite the Chancellor's protests. And why should concealed carry be allowed in states that have made the sensible decision not to allow it? Do states rights only apply to Republicans? Ask feminists what they think state laws have done to Women's Healthcare rights.

 

[Aldebaran]

A little bellicose and agressive, don't you think? The authoritarians in Washington and in state houses are the Republicans. They are trying to force guns on people who don't want them. We don't want guns on our campuses, but state legislators forced the campuses to allow them despite the Chancellor's protests.

It looks like you're confusing what it means to "force". What's being proposed is to allow those who want to carry them to do so. That's not forcing anyone to own or carry a gun.

 

[Fantine]

It is forcing the people who live in those states to suffer a more violent, unsafe environment than they support. Before you blow up, check the stats.

You freely choose to lead a life in which you ar5e more likely to die from gun wounds than I am. Read the stats. Where are my rights to walk down the street without wondering if there are guns in people's pockets? Homes with guns have more family violence, accidents, and suicides. You freely choose to be unsafe. We want no part of it.

 

[Aldebaran]

It is forcing the people who live in those states to suffer a more violent, unsafe environment than they support. Before you blow up, check the stats.

You freely choose to lead a life in which you ar5e more likely to die from gun wounds than I am. Read the stats. Where are my rights to walk down the street without wondering if there are guns in people's pockets? Homes with guns have more family violence, accidents, and suicides. You freely choose to be unsafe. We want no part of it.

Well, I live in a state that is one of the most recent to allow concealed carry. Plenty of people were against it when it first got started, thinking it would be like the "Old West". With tens of thousands of people now having concealed carry permits in the state, things are as quiet as they've ever been.

 

[Fantine]

More gun ownership results in many more deaths (per capita of population). And there are people out there who think more guns are a "good" thing. Sheesh!

Mapped: The US states with the most gun owners—and most gun deaths

Following the latest US mass shooting, which killed two people plus the shooter himself and wounded nine at a movie theater in Lafayette, Louisiana, the gun control debate is likely to flare up again. And a look at US gun ownership and gun death statistics casts some doubt on the “good guy with a gun” theory.

Even based on limited information, though, there appears to be a relationship between high rates of gun deaths and high rates of gun ownership.

The most complete state-by-state ownership data comes from the American Academy of Pediatrics, from a 2005 report using data from a 2002 survey. Overall, America average household gun ownership rate is 32%, but that varies widely by state:

The most complete, most recent data on state-by-state deaths related to guns comes from the US’s latest National Vital Statistics report, released this February and using 2013 data, which has been broken out by the Henry J. Kaiser Foundation:

Or, here’s another way to look at it. These are the 10 states with the highest rate of gun deaths in the country:

These states all have much higher rates of gun ownership than the average, and are among the top 20 US states when ranked by gun ownership rates (with the exception of New Mexico, which is one of the US’s deadliest and ranks 27th):

 

[Bio-Luminescent Billy]

I see your 2005 study, and raise you 2011 gun and violence FBI stats.

Gun crime statistics by US state: latest data

US gun crime

Crime in the U.S. 2011