Study shows most Americans blame government mistakes, not guns, for Florida shooting

[variant]

I do not expect government to stop things like the Parkland shooting,
Nor do I believe that government lacks any tools they need to do the job they are tasked with doing.

If you are going to blame the government as the OP says people are doing, then it has to be their job to stop things like the Parkland shooting.

So the OP is saying most people think it is the governments responsibility to stop things like the Parkland shooting.

 

[Gigimo]

If we expect the government to stop things like the parkland shooting we're going to have to give them the tools to do so.

They don't even use the tools they currently have so new ones are a waste of time.

 

[variant]

They don't even use the tools they currently have so new ones is a waste of time.

Why not see what works and copy it?

I reject the idea that law enforcement is both responsible for keeping mass shooters at bay and dosen't want to.

 

[Gigimo]

Why not see what works and copy it?

Since there are no laws that deter a determined killer in any country around the world from procuring a gun and using it good luck with finding a law that works.

 

[variant]

Since there are no laws that deter a determined killer in any country around the world from procuring a gun and using it good luck with finding a law that works.

Works best would be the point.

I don't prescribe to the fallacy that the police can be thought responcable for not stopping every mass shooting.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

A lot can be done to deter mass shootings, but a guy in China just recently proved you don't need a gun to kill twice as was killed in this episode (37 killed with a knife). Timothy McVeigh did his damage with fertilizer and killed hundreds. The attackers on 9/11 used knives to take over and fly planes into the World Trade center and killed thousands.

 

[variant]

A lot can be done to deter mass shootings, but a guy in China just recently proved you don't need a gun to kill twice as was killed in this episode (37 killed with a knife). Timothy McVeigh did his damage with fertilizer and killed hundreds. The attackers on 9/11 used knives to take over and fly planes into the World Trade center and killed thousands.

I would rather the criminals have to be more imaginative than going down to the local gun store and buying a pre-made weapon perfect for the job.

I don't see any issue with being careful about large purchases of ammonium nitrate for example to use your McVeigh example.

 

[TerranceL]

If we expect the government to stop things like the parkland shooting we're going to have to give them the tools to do so.

Curious, what new powers would the FBI need? They were told numerous times about this kid, they claimed to be unable to find him.

 

[grasping the after wind]

If you are going to blame the government as the OP says people are doing, then it has to be their job to stop things like the Parkland shooting.

So the OP is saying most people think it is the governments responsibility to stop things like the Parkland shooting.

I would suggest that the premise presented in the OP was not that the government is responsible for stopping things like the Parkland shooting but rather that, when given the opportunity to affect the situation, government failed to act competently or correctly and as a result of government mistakes the shooter was able to do what he did. The belief is that had some the government acted correctly the shooting could have been avoided and had other agencies of government acted correctly the casualty count could been decreased.

I do take issue with the characterization of the OP that most Americans blame government mistakes. The poll cited demonstrates that a majority of respondents believe government mistakes are to blame for the shooting not that most Americans do. Such polls are often unreliable indicators but even if this one was indicative of actual opinions on the subject for the country , it would suggest a sizable proportion of people believe that government mistakes are to blame but "most people" and "more people" are not synonymous concepts from my perspective. IMO "More people" would be the term most apropos when discussing a simple majority while "Most people" would indicate that there were very few that did not agree. I would expect at least a 75% agreement on a topic before I would characterize it as "most people" So I would take issue with the premise most Americans blame government mistakes and reword the title to say "More Americans blame government mistakes...."

 

[grasping the after wind]

Works best would be the point.

I don't prescribe to the fallacy that the police can be thought responcable for not stopping every mass shooting.

The premise of the majority of those polled that the OP refers to is that, through already legal government action, this particular shooting could have been stopped or that the casualties could have been lessened if government employees had acted rather than refrained from doing so. Though such people may exist, I know of no one that thinks that it is possible for government to stop mass shootings altogether and finds it government rather than the shooter that is responsible. Perhaps a few irrationally fervent gun control advocates feel that way?

 

[Aldebaran]

I would rather the criminals have to be more imaginative than going down to the local gun store and buying a pre-made weapon perfect for the job.

That's like saying the 9/11 attacks and what happened in Oklahoma City was not as bad as what happened in that Florida school shooting just because the people killed in the school were killed with a gun, and the 2 terrorist attacks were more "imaginative".

 

[Fantine]

That's like saying the 9/11 attacks and what happened in Oklahoma City was not as bad as what happened in that Florida school shooting just because the people killed in the school were killed with a gun, and the 2 terrorist attacks were more "imaginative".

I blame government, too, for being led around by the nose by an NRA so extreme that even 85% of its members disagree with them. Greed, corruption--shame on all who put our children in jeopardy to fatten their wallets.

 

[variant]

That's like saying the 9/11 attacks and what happened in Oklahoma City was not as bad as what happened in that Florida school shooting just because the people killed in the school were killed with a gun, and the 2 terrorist attacks were more "imaginative".

It's not like saying that at all. I'm saying that I would like terrorists to have to try harder to commit their crimes rather than not as hard.

I consider it more optimal when the power to do damage is more tightly regulated. For instance, I don't see anyone complaining that the FBI looks into people buying large amounts of fertilizer as it makes a convenient explosive...

What exactly is the problem with that?

 

[variant]

Curious, what new powers would the FBI need? They were told numerous times about this kid, they claimed to be unable to find him.

The painful problem is that the FBI knows about thousands of potential shooters and we're asking them to pick the right ones.

But if I were to suppose, they would do better with a more complete national background check system where the states actually participated, and broader power to act before a shooting happens.

It would also be nice to know if the guy making threats all over the place has been buying up weapons, or how many weapons they had but the NRA and politicians don't like the idea of having a registration database.

The FBI missed the guy a few times, or failed to act, but I think that would be less likely if they had a database flagging him as buying up weapons and saying he was going to be a professional school shooter at the same time.

 

[rambot]

Since there are no laws that deter a determined killer in any country around the world from procuring a gun and using it good luck with finding a law that works.

What wonderfully timed nonsense!
Check this thread
School Attack in the Netherlands leaves 15 dead

 

[rambot]

From pure ignorance... What could the fbi have done?

Bring him in? Have a chat? Press charges and prosecute?

 

[TerranceL]

I blame government, too, for being led around by the nose by an NRA so extreme that even 85% of its members disagree with them. Greed, corruption--shame on all who put our children in jeopardy to fatten their wallets.

Yes it was the NRA who told the local police not to do anything about an obviously violent kid, it was the NRA who told the FBI not to show any concern for the guy and it was the FBI who kept the local police from going in to stop the guy.

DARN YOU NRA!

 

[HannahT]

If you are going to blame the government as the OP says people are doing, then it has to be their job to stop things like the Parkland shooting.

So the OP is saying most people think it is the governments responsibility to stop things like the Parkland shooting.

You need to ask WHY the people in the article that the OP posted feel the government is to blame before placing unrealistic expectations on any human being - police or otherwise.

I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not here. The police/government don't have crystal balls to see in the future to stop these horrific acts. We all know that. It is their job to follow up on leads, and respond to criminal acts - which as we have read about this kid seem to be abundant. Heck, even the FBI admitted they dropped the ball in a major fashion.

It seems to me that protocols and red flags that could have - and should have - been followed up on were not. I think people have the right to criticize that, and place some blame there. Is that unreasonable?

Do we know that the shooting could have been prevented the way it happened it if had? Chances are VERY good he couldn't get his hands on a legal weapon if they had. Does that mean it could STOPPED this shooting? The probability is much higher.

Fifty-four percent of Americans surveyed believe the shooting could have been avoided if government agencies responded to reports of warning signs from the killer.

lol that doesn't read to me - its their job to stop things like the Parkland shooting. It does say they hold them responsible for the lack of action. I can't blame them there, and I tend to agree.

 

[Aldebaran]

It's not like saying that at all. I'm saying that I would like terrorists to have to try harder to commit their crimes rather than not as hard.

I consider it more optimal when the power to do damage is more tightly regulated. For instance, I don't see anyone complaining that the FBI looks into people buying large amounts of fertilizer as it makes a convenient explosive...

What exactly is the problem with that?

The problem is that you're not seeing the fact that even if something is "regulated", people still find a way around it. Sure, they use their imagination. Has that stopped those with imagination from doing far greater damage with knives and explosives than they could with a gun? Just look at the death toll from 9/11, the death tool of the OKC bombing, and the death toll of any single school shooting. Rather ironic that the ones committed with guns has the lowest death toll, while the one committed with box cutter knives has the highest, and the one with the bomb is in between.

 

[iluvatar5150]

A lot can be done to deter mass shootings, but a guy in China just recently proved you don't need a gun to kill twice as was killed in this episode (37 killed with a knife). Timothy McVeigh did his damage with fertilizer and killed hundreds. The attackers on 9/11 used knives to take over and fly planes into the World Trade center and killed thousands.

The government now monitors fertilizer purchases and stockpiling an amount like McVeigh's will get you a visit from your friendly neighborhood fed. And that pales in comparison to the apparatus installed to prevent 9/11 v2.