Alpha.Omega
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Yes, of course; it's just imaginative fiction, like all the others. Gods, serpents, sea monsters, turtles, chaos, etc. See creation myths for a selection.
Why should he even bother? You'll just say that whatever he comes up with is from the devil.
Quantum vacuums are not nothing. My favorite metaphor for explaining this is to point out that if your bank account was at zero dollars and suddenly had five thousand dollars deposited into it, its starting point was not "nothing" in the theological sense, since the entire economic structure and banking system was already in place.
If quantum vacuums are to be used as an explanation (which I am dubious about because I am unconvinced that they would even exist in the absence of a pre-existing universe), then we're back at eternal universe/multiverse as the alternative.
Also there's every reason to believe that time is a property of the universe, so it is somewhat strange to talk about near-infinities prior to the Big Bang.
One of my favorites is Neoplatonism, whereby the inner activity of God, who is utterly simple and beyond existence itself, eternally results in the emanation of Intellect (a sort of pre-embodied cognition), which then gazing back upon its source and trying to understand itself leads to a second emanation, the Soul, whose outer activity is the manifestation of physical reality. Everything is a matter of procession and return--emanating from God and then turning back to gaze upon him. But there is no genuine action of creation here in the Christian sense.
I think forms of Hinduism would have a similar approach, though I am less familiar with this aspect of Hindu theology than with others. But I get the impression that it is simply within Brahman's nature to eternally manifest physical realities. It is not very clear that this is being done intentionally.
Both of these theistic frameworks are radically nondualistic--there is no strong distinction between God and the world as there is in Christianity.
That sounds quite Hegelian...One of my favorites is Neoplatonism, whereby the inner activity of God, who is utterly simple and beyond existence itself, eternally results in the emanation of Intellect (a sort of pre-embodied cognition), which then gazing back upon its source and trying to understand itself leads to a second emanation, the Soul, whose outer activity is the manifestation of physical reality. Everything is a matter of procession and return--emanating from God and then turning back to gaze upon him. But there is no genuine action of creation here in the Christian sense.
I think forms of Hinduism would have a similar approach, though I am less familiar with this aspect of Hindu theology than with others. But I get the impression that it is simply within Brahman's nature to eternally manifest physical realities. It is not very clear that this is being done intentionally.
Both of these theistic frameworks are radically nondualistic--there is no strong distinction between God and the world as there is in Christianity.
Of course. And for all Christians (whether you think they're real Christians or not) God is ultimately the author of the universe.Regardless of the theories that exist about how this universe began. They all tell us that there was something that "developed" from something or something "banged". Which leads to the all importnt question as to what exactly "developed" or "banged"? Where did this first element or atom or particle or whatever COME FROM? This is the question that has nor can be answered apart from Almighty God.
Are you a 1611er?
The simplest explanation is that the quantum universe or multiverse has always been around in some form.Regardless of the theories that exist about how this universe began. They all tell us that there was something that "developed" from something or something "banged". Which leads to the all importnt question as to what exactly "developed" or "banged"? Where did this first element or atom or particle or whatever COME FROM? This is the question that has nor can be answered apart from Almighty God.
The simplest explanation is that the quantum universe or multiverse has always been around in some form.
There are other explanations involving the 'beginning' of time, or the universe being closed in time (as in the Hartle-Hawking proposal and similar ideas), but they're not so conceptually simple.
You care to tell us
I think we're probably going off the thread topic, but strictly speaking, whatever existed before the Big Bang can be sort of summed up as "???" It very well could have been a near-zero energy state of a collapsed prior universe googols of years old. Or it could have been very spicy cheez whiz. We've really got no way of knowing.
An old familiar idea and well said.
Here's another... transformation of that! --
Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?”
14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”
That sounds quite Hegelian...
I already did. It wasn't from the Bible, therefore it was from the devil.
Yes, but there are ultimately only two choices. Either something exists eternally, whether you want to be a materialist, a pantheist, a theist, or whatever else about it, or at some point physical reality sprang out of nothing for no reason whatsoever. Quantum vacuums, prior universes, and so forth and so on puts you firmly in the first category. It is not uncommon these days to view the second option as a possibility as well, which strikes me as the heights of insanity, but to each their own.
Yeah. I don't rule this out as a possibility, but it's not the only one even from a more theistic perspective.
Yeah, I operate vaguely within the same tradition. Though there's a bit of Heidegger in there too. And some Aquinas. And half a dozen other things, Western and Eastern alike.
Well, that's something good to hear. I had begun to form the impression that you believed we were saved through faith in the literal inerrancy of Genesis, not through faith in Christ."I already did. It wasn't from the Bible, therefore it was from the devil."
Any writing that contradicts what the Holy Bible Teaches, is 100% from the devil, because there is only ONE Word of Almighty God to the human race, and that is the Holy Bible. No other writing of other "beliefs" are required, as none can or do help the sinner find forgiveness for their sins, and how to get to heaven, which is only possible through the Lord Jesus Christ.
Yes, but there are ultimately only two choices. Either something exists eternally, whether you want to be a materialist, a pantheist, a theist, or whatever else about it, or at some point physical reality sprang out of nothing for no reason whatsoever. Quantum vacuums, prior universes, and so forth and so on puts you firmly in the first category. It is not uncommon these days to view the second option as a possibility as well, which strikes me as the heights of insanity, but to each their own.
Well, that's something good to hear. I had begun to form the impression that you believed we were saved through faith in the literal inerrancy of Genesis, not through faith in Christ.
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