STILL no evidence FOR creation/ID

[Alpha.Omega]

We're definitely getting poed on this one.

you being rude?

 

[Silmarien]

Any writing that contradicts what the Holy Bible Teaches, is 100% from the devil, because there is only ONE Word of Almighty God to the human race, and that is the Holy Bible. No other writing of other "beliefs" are required, as none can or do help the sinner find forgiveness for their sins, and how to get to heaven, which is only possible through the Lord Jesus Christ.

All well and good, but you are asking people to provide alternative conceptions to the biblical account, and then rejecting them because they are not from the Bible. And this somehow proves that the Bible is the inerrant word of God.

I see that you call yourself a "Christian Seeker"? What are you seeking from Christianity? Because I also see you quote from a Hindu book, which is 100% against the teachings of the Holy Bible. God ALONE is the True Light, all others represent the darkness of the devil. It is that simple!

Αλήθεια. Truth, in the Platonic sense, which I believe might be found within Christianity. But then again, it might not.

But if Christianity is true, then any other truths about reality, wherever they might be found--whether in science, Eastern philosophy, Western philosophy, or so forth--are ultimately Christian truths as well. And there are many echoes of Christian teachings within the Bhagavad Gita.

 

[Ophiolite]

starting from where? Where did it BEGIN? apart from Almighty God, there is NO answer. Hawking was a rank FOOL!

1. If you feel the Universe needs a cause, why do you think God doesn't?
2. If Hawking was a rank fool I shudder to think where that places you and I.
3. If Genesis is literally true, why did God provide so much evidence that suggests it isn't?
4. Or, if Genesis is literally true, why did God allow the devil to create so much evidence that suggests it isn't?

 

[Alpha.Omega]

All well and good, but you are asking people to provide alternative conceptions to the biblical account, and then rejecting them because they are not from the Bible. And this somehow proves that the Bible is the inerrant word of God.



Αλήθεια. Truth, in the Platonic sense, which I believe might be found within Christianity. But then again, it might not.

But if Christianity is true, then any other truths about reality, wherever they might be found--whether in science, Eastern philosophy, Western philosophy, or so forth--are ultimately Christian truths as well. And there are many echoes of Christian teachings within the Bhagavad Gita.

the Cornerstone of the Christian Faith, is the Lord Jesus Christ, Who says: "“I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me". This small statement is very profound, because here Jesus says, that HE, and NO other, is THE: WAY, TRUTH AND LIFE, and that He ALONE, is the WAY to get to heaven. No, if's or but's, or maybe's, but FACT. ALL "religions, ways, faiths" are from the devil, as NONE will agree with what Jesus says. There is only ONE Right, and that is Faith in the Living Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, Himself Almighty God. EVERY other "leader" of religions, etc, are DEAD, Jesus Christ ALONE, is the LIVING GOD! This makes Him UNIQUE, and the Christian Faith, founded on Him, UNIQUE, and The Holy Bible, that Teaches these Great Truths, UNIQUE.

 

[Speedwell]

Are you now suggesting that the Genesis Account of Creation, is not "Inerrant"? So, it has errors?

No, I think it is exactly the book God wanted it to be. He made no errors.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Most interestingly, no creationists presented anything even close to evidence. It was all the usual antics...



And it is always... ALWAYS... 'arguments' against evolution.

NEVER arguments FOR creation/ID.

That is not true, I have often made the argument "creation simply makes more sense". Actually I've done that several times. You you are either not telling the truth or you see the arguments we produce as non arguments in which case, of course you haven't gotten any arguments for creation, you dob't accept anything as argument.

When I presented the fact ID is just more logical, I get an argument that logic has nothing to do with it, lol...yeah, that really happened once. Evolutionists attack every argument from some of the silliest angles. My favorite is science doesn't provide proof for evolution/or anything for that matter according to some, something that's so oddly convenient, anyone in their right mind can see right through it, and know it's a place holder for "*can't* prove it". I tried to show them a science experiment that proved science does prove things, they then argue a simple science experiment is not that at all, and even with the definitions put right in front of them showing it was a proper experiment, they persist.

So now they've have attacked logic, proof, and then come definitions, things like theory, where the term is conveniently revamped to mean something other than what it means.

I'm sure there's more but I'll stop there for now, and say what I like to say so often, so we don't have to go through all that other stuff where evolutionists try to confuse their fantasy into fact on these threads. Prove it and stop with the excuses already.

It is almost as if creationists have admitted to themselves, subconsciously, that they cannot actually offer any positive supporting evidence FOR their mere beliefs, and are content to simply attack 'the other.' This is true, whether the creationist is a one-line snark master, or a verbose citation and quote bombing autodidact.

I personally have admitted no such thing, and you are the ones calling assumptions "positive supporting evidence" when it is not, or at the very least, as I end up saying so often "saying it doesn't make it so" it's assumptions, and you even admit such. The difference in your so called evidence and even if ours is was only "It just makes a lot more sense", is we aren't making ours up, or taking factual science and assuming it's evidence then saying it makes evolution a fact. I won't get into why we won't do that, and you will, but it happens nonetheless, and makes perfect sense it would. Your evidence is based on so many assumptions it could very well make it all null at some point or another. A lot of null evidence may work to get some on the evolution band wagon, but it's no more than the actual "no evidence at all" to some of us.

Those that buy evolution often base their conclusions on simply having faith in what people say, and that they might be telling the truth. The thought process is often, "Evolutionists have all this evidence that even if some of it's wrong much of it has GOT to be true" When they simply cannot trust that at all, yet they often buy it for that reason alone. When in reality, it's all based on assumption, opinion, sleight of hand, a twisting here and a turning there, as I already explained, until they've created a formula that works in getting believers.

In the case of where it began, an extremely important part that evolutionist cope out on by saying "It doesn't matter" when of course it matters...something else that simply isn't true. Why doesn't it matter? That bit of knowledge could very well show them there is no evolution to begin with, and never any reason to think there was. So, is it any wonder "it doesn't matter".

That said, and back to what I was getting to for the OP, for me personally, a truthful "It just makes more sense" counters untrue assumptions that make no sense whatsoever. I don't care if they have a million of them. Those being something from nothing, right out of the blue, for no reason, or worse yet and even more unbelievable, all these vert very intricut results of "whatever" came about by accident. Something that to me is absolutely ludicrous, and again makes no sense whatsoever.

Anyway, just a little something to go along side the OP.

 

[Alpha.Omega]

1. If you feel the Universe needs a cause, why do you think God doesn't?
2. If Hawking was a rank fool I shudder to think where that places you and I.
3. If Genesis is literally true, why did God provide so much evidence that suggests it isn't?
4. Or, if Genesis is literally true, why did God allow the devil to create so much evidence that suggests it isn't?

1. God IS the Cause of all things, excepting Himself
2. Hawking was a fool because he thought that he knew better than God, by not submitting to the Word of God, that would have told Him all he really needed to know.
3. The only "evidence" that may "suggest" otherwise, as you say, is what the devil has made sure people would rather believe in.
4. because people hate the God of the Bible, Who says, "Thou shall not", and rather believe in LIES that the devil spins them!

 

[Alpha.Omega]

No, I think it is exactly the book God wanted it to be. He made no errors.

care to expand on this?

 

[Speedwell]

care to expand on this?

I think my meaning is clear enough. A divinely inspired book can contain no errors. If there appear to be errors then our interpretation is at fault.

 

[Ophiolite]

1. God IS the Cause of all things, excepting Himself

A belief based upon a circular argument. Circular arguments lead to one disappearing up ones own fundament.

2. Hawking was a fool because he thought that he knew better than God, by not submitting to the Word of God, that would have told Him all he really needed to know.

Uninformed opinion justified by the aforementioned circular argument.

3. The only "evidence" that may "suggest" otherwise, as you say, is what the devil has made sure people would rather believe in.

Sad.

4. because people hate the God of the Bible, Who says, "Thou shall not", and rather believe in LIES that the devil spins them!

I wouldn't trust a God who allowed that to happen. That you do place your trust in such a one speaks volumes.

The gulf between our world views is greater than that between the formation of the planet 4.5 billion years ago and today. As there is little hope of bridging it I'll try to ignore your future posts. I shall continue to hope that at some point your intellect kicks in, or was that a gift from the devil also?

 

[Silmarien]

1. If you feel the Universe needs a cause, why do you think God doesn't?
2. If Hawking was a rank fool I shudder to think where that places you and I.
3. If Genesis is literally true, why did God provide so much evidence that suggests it isn't?
4. Or, if Genesis is literally true, why did God allow the devil to create so much evidence that suggests it isn't?

Only contingent beings that begin to exist need causes. All evidence would indicate that the universe is contingent and did in fact come into existence at some point. If this is true, it needs a cause (though that cause need not strictly speaking be God). On the other hand, if the universe/multiverse exists eternally, it needs no cause.

The word "God" refers to necessary being, existing (in an analogical sense) eternally beyond time and space. As he did not at some point come into existence, he needs no cause. If any specific divine entity at one point did not exist and then was caused, they would effectively be a demiurge, not God in the theological sense.

Err, sorry. I'm an Aquinas admirer and hate seeing cosmological arguments bungled. I agree with points #2-4, though Hawkings was neither a metaphysicist nor a theologian and therefore not qualified to make proclamations about creatio ex nihilo. Scientists and theologians mean something different by the term "nothing."

 

[Alpha.Omega]

A belief based upon a circular argument. Circular arguments lead to one disappearing up ones own fundament.

Uninformed opinion justified by the aforementioned circular argument.

Sad.

I wouldn't trust a God who allowed that to happen. That you do place your trust in such a one speaks volumes.

The gulf between our world views is greater than that between the formation of the planet 4.5 billion years ago and today. As there is little hope of bridging it I'll try to ignore your future posts. I shall continue to hope that at some point your intellect kicks in, or was that a gift from the devil also?

The Bible speaks of the blind leading the blind. Which is clearly shown by you misplaced belief in the age of the world. Exactly how does anybody date billions of years ago? Only foolish people would accept such hogwash

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Maybe you can tell us how this universe began?

Nobody knows - as I said, the simplest explanation is that it's always been around in some form, and that the universe we see following the big bang is just a phase it (or part of it) is going through; but there are other science-based hypotheses.

OTOH if you're asking what happened at the big bang (i.e. immediately after) Wikipedia has a reasonable summary of the current model and links to more detail.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

starting from where? Where did it BEGIN? apart from Almighty God, there is NO answer. Hawking was a rank FOOL!

Do you have a reading difficulty? the first line of the post you quoted contains a possible answer: "The simplest explanation is that the quantum universe or multiverse has always been around in some form."

I seriously doubt you're in a position to judge Hawking's work; and, for believers in such things, Matthew 5:22 may be relevant

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Exactly how does anybody date billions of years ago?

You might find this educational: Dating Rocks and Fossils Using Geologic Methods.

 

[Snappy1]

You might find this educational: Dating Rocks and Fossils Using Geologic Methods.

Well that's highly unlikely.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Well that's highly unlikely.

I know... but there may be lurkers keen to learn

 

[Alpha.Omega]

You might find this educational: Dating Rocks and Fossils Using Geologic Methods.

there are NO fossils that predate the flood of the Holy Bible, and that is NOT billions of years old!

Fossil Record

 

[Alpha.Omega]

Do you have a reading difficulty? the first line of the post you quoted contains a possible answer: "The simplest explanation is that the quantum universe or multiverse has always been around in some form."

I seriously doubt you're in a position to judge Hawking's work; and, for believers in such things, Matthew 5:22 may be relevant

The universe cannot have always been around, because the Bible says that God created it out of nothing!

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

you being rude?

From Poe's Law - "Without a clear indication of the author's intent, it is difficult or impossible to tell the difference between an expression of sincere extremism and a parody of extremism."