STILL no evidence FOR creation/ID

[Colter]

The last thread I started commenting on this phenomenon got bogged down by trolls and eventually closed.

Most interestingly, no creationists presented anything even close to evidence. It was all the usual antics...



And it is always... ALWAYS... 'arguments' against evolution.

NEVER arguments FOR creation/ID.

Analogies to human activity, bible verses, 'problems' with evolution - none of these, not one of them, is evidence FOR creation or ID.


It is almost as if creationists have admitted to themselves, subconsciously, that they cannot actually offer any positive supporting evidence FOR their mere beliefs, and are content to simply attack 'the other.' This is true, whether the creationist is a one-line snark master, or a verbose citation and quote bombing autodidact.

Life is proof of the existance of life. There is no proof of the creation of life by a creator God. Neither is there proof that life created itself.

 

[tas8831]

Sure, but this would be a different question. In regards to the question of the origins of life, appealing to the Bible as evidence is not begging the question.

LOL!

Whatever.

Let's see your evidence FOR creation/ID and no more of this bible diversionary stuff.

But please do not think for one second that others are simply going to accept a bible verse not only AS evidence, but as some sort of trump-card, nullifying all else (that is how bible verses are usually used - faced with a wall of data, the creationist trots out the old 'it is the fool that hath...' and scampers off...).

It just seems obvious that you reject the authority of Scripture and so will not accept it as evidence.

That is correct. Scripture is words written by men. There is not rationale for accepting it as 100% reliable, especially when contradicted by evidence.

You've decided at the outset, for some unknown reason, that God's Word is not acceptable as evidence. You say further that it's possible for a Bible verse to lose. So I assume that you reject the authority of Scripture.

Very good.

Now do you have real evidence?

I have a hard time understanding the psychology of the person that actually believes that in a debate, all that have to do is shout "SCRIPTURE!" and think they've won.

Evidence? Or no?

If you reject the authority of Scripture, why do you identify as a Christian?

Because I cannot figure out how to change my profile - I explain this on my member page.

But nice diversion - evidence?

 

[Snappy1]

Do you even know what it means to beg the question?

And so it continues.

 

[Tree of Life]

LOL!

Whatever.

Let's see your evidence FOR creation/ID and no more of this bible diversionary stuff.

But please do not think for one second that others are simply going to accept a bible verse not only AS evidence, but as some sort of trump-card, nullifying all else (that is how bible verses are usually used - faced with a wall of data, the creationist trots out the old 'it is the fool that hath...' and scampers off...).


That is correct. Scripture is words written by men. There is not rationale for accepting it as 100% reliable, especially when contradicted by evidence.


Very good.

Now do you have real evidence?

I have a hard time understanding the psychology of the person that actually believes that in a debate, all that have to do is shout "SCRIPTURE!" and think they've won.

Evidence? Or no?
Because I cannot figure out how to change my profile - I explain this on my member page.

But nice diversion - evidence?

I understand now. You're not a Christian. I thought you were because of your profile designation. If you reject the Bible as authoritative then there is no direct evidence to prove that God created the world from nothing in the space of six days.

 

[tas8831]

Tons of evidence fitting most mainstream science theories, but I was trying to address just your OP. Does this help: God using evolution by His plan would fit Genesis chapter 1 perfectly (even both versions: with interventions, and even without (many) interventions by perfect Design from the start in the laws of nature (physics), even, all unfolding like a flower from a seed, by perfect Design), as would other many other viewpoints. He is able.

Does not help, since none of that is evidence, just your opinion.

 

[Silmarien]

Analogies to human activity, bible verses, 'problems' with evolution - none of these, not one of them, is evidence FOR creation or ID.

I'm a fairly orthodox Darwinist and don't pay close attention to the ID debate, but from my understanding, they like to use probabilistic models to demonstrate that intentional design is a better theory than natural selection. Given that their entire thesis is a direct attack upon methodological naturalism, I am not sure what empirical evidence they could be expected to provide. They're challenging the rules themselves.

 

[tas8831]

I understand now. You're not a Christian. I thought you were because of your profile designation. If you reject the Bible as authoritative then there is no direct evidence to prove that God created the world from nothing in the space of six days.

Understood - and I sincerely thank you for being forthright. I do not agree with your position, but I do respect you. Sadly, many of your brothers in Christ have taken to engaging in deceptive practices to try to 'prove' that their beliefs do have evidence, and they do not get my respect.

 

[tas8831]

I'm a fairly orthodox Darwinist and don't pay close attention to the ID debate, but from my understanding, they like to use probabilistic models to demonstrate that intentional design is a better theory than natural selection. Given that their entire thesis is a direct attack upon methodological naturalism, I am not sure what empirical evidence they could be expected to provide. They're challenging the rules themselves.

Then you should explain this to those among them who claim otherwise.

 

[Call me Nic]

The last thread I started commenting on this phenomenon got bogged down by trolls and eventually closed.

Most interestingly, no creationists presented anything even close to evidence. It was all the usual antics...



And it is always... ALWAYS... 'arguments' against evolution.

NEVER arguments FOR creation/ID.

Analogies to human activity, bible verses, 'problems' with evolution - none of these, not one of them, is evidence FOR creation or ID.


It is almost as if creationists have admitted to themselves, subconsciously, that they cannot actually offer any positive supporting evidence FOR their mere beliefs, and are content to simply attack 'the other.' This is true, whether the creationist is a one-line snark master, or a verbose citation and quote bombing autodidact.

The Christian is not a Christian because he has evidence or knowledge. The Christian is a Christian because of his faith and what he believes. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Faith doesn't rely upon evidence, but rather upon hope. Faith itself, according to the Bible, is the evidence of things unseen - like God and the Bible's account of Creation.

Why should any Christian try to prove to you the truth about Creation? If we prove it, then the factor of faith is lost and we therefore are condemned because we believed not God. I offer no argument toward your belief whatsoever, because it doesn't make a difference to me if you believe it or don't. You've obviously been equipped with the knowledge of what the Bible says and you do not believe it, and that's on you. Period.

You are no better than the Pharisees requiring Jesus to perform miracles to prove that he is the Son of God. You are of little faith if any at all, and without faith, it is impossible to please God.

 

[Halbhh]

Does not help, since none of that is evidence, just your opinion.

Exactly. Even professional scientists really do have opinions and are just often saying their opinion, even about science. That is, mixing both real information and opinion together, often seamlessly. We are lucky if they will say what is clear, what is known, what was observed separating those from what they are assuming or guessing, and telling us which is which. Lucky if they will say, and otherwise we could only find out by extensive reading in that field. What evidence are you yourself looking for about what though? You don't need my opinion, likely as not! But about creation and evolution, we should just relax and not sweat it. We aren't going to know all details until after He returns, and then it won't matter either. All must seek in order to find God -- Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 7:7-12 - New International Version

 

[tas8831]

The Christian is not a Christian because he has evidence or knowledge. The Christian is a Christian because of his faith and what he believes.

And yet, on this very forum (which is why I brought it up), there are several Christian creationists that insist otherwise (whose 'evidence' is as I mentioned in the OP). They feel that either attacking evolution or by positing nonsensical 'facts' they are presenting 'evidence' that creation is true.

The point it, if THAT group of creationists want to claim they have evidence, then they should present it and stop with the games. No?

 

[Alpha.Omega]

The last thread I started commenting on this phenomenon got bogged down by trolls and eventually closed.

Most interestingly, no creationists presented anything even close to evidence. It was all the usual antics...



And it is always... ALWAYS... 'arguments' against evolution.

NEVER arguments FOR creation/ID.

Analogies to human activity, bible verses, 'problems' with evolution - none of these, not one of them, is evidence FOR creation or ID.


It is almost as if creationists have admitted to themselves, subconsciously, that they cannot actually offer any positive supporting evidence FOR their mere beliefs, and are content to simply attack 'the other.' This is true, whether the creationist is a one-line snark master, or a verbose citation and quote bombing autodidact.

Did you say "evidence"? And exactly what does this mean? How do you or any other human being determine what real "evidence" is? What are you going to use to measure this "evidence" with? And who says whether what is presented is right or wrong?

The Holy Bible IS, the Infallible, Inerrant, Authoritative Word of Almighty God to the entire human race. This Word of God declares in the very opening verse of the Holy Bible:

"In the beginning, GOD CREATED the heavens and the earth" (Genesis 1:1)

This means the ENTIRE universe, ALL that you can see, and cannot see. WHO would dare to counter what the Almighty has said? Who can say that it is not true, and thereby call Him a liar? Would YOU?

The Bible also says:

"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible...And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who seek Him" (The Book of Hebrews, chapter 1, verses 1-3, 6)

THIS, is the ONLY evidence that is 100% True, and that can be 100% relied upon. Because IT IS THE WORD OF GOD!

 

[tas8831]

Did you say "evidence"? And exactly what does this mean? How do you or any other human being determine what real "evidence" is? What are you going to use to measure this "evidence" with? And who says whether what is presented is right or wrong?

The Holy Bible IS, the Infallible, Inerrant, Authoritative Word of Almighty God to the entire human race. This Word of God declares in the very opening verse of the Holy Bible:

"In the beginning, GOD CREATED the heavens and the earth" (Genesis 1:1)

This means the ENTIRE universe, ALL that you can see, and cannot see. WHO would dare to counter what the Almighty has said? Who can say that it is not true, and thereby call Him a liar? Would YOU?

The Bible also says:

"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible...And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who seek Him" (The Book of Hebrews, chapter 1, verses 1-3, 6)

THIS, is the ONLY evidence that is 100% True, and that can be 100% relied upon. Because IT IS THE WORD OF GOD!

Got it - no evidence.

 

[Speedwell]

Did you say "evidence"? And exactly what does this mean? How do you or any other human being determine what real "evidence" is? What are you going to use to measure this "evidence" with? And who says whether what is presented is right or wrong?

The Holy Bible IS, the Infallible, Inerrant, Authoritative Word of Almighty God to the entire human race. This Word of God declares in the very opening verse of the Holy Bible:

"In the beginning, GOD CREATED the heavens and the earth" (Genesis 1:1)

This means the ENTIRE universe, ALL that you can see, and cannot see. WHO would dare to counter what the Almighty has said? Who can say that it is not true, and thereby call Him a liar? Would YOU?

The Bible also says:

"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible...And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who seek Him" (The Book of Hebrews, chapter 1, verses 1-3, 6)

THIS, is the ONLY evidence that is 100% True, and that can be 100% relied upon. Because IT IS THE WORD OF GOD!

A book is not scientific evidence of anything. The Bible is no more evidence of creationism than Origin of Species is evidence of evolution.

 

[Alpha.Omega]

Got it - no evidence.

Now I challenge YOU, to provide your EVIDENCE of how this entire universe began.

 

[Snappy1]

Now I challenge YOU, to provide your EVIDENCE of how this entire universe began.

Lol this thread didn't make it very far.

 

[Alpha.Omega]

A book is not scientific evidence of anything. The Bible is no more evidence of creationism than Origin of Species is evidence of evolution.

You saying that the God of the Holy Bible is a liar? That He has told us in His Most Holy Word, LIES???

 

[Alpha.Omega]

Lol this thread didn't make it very far.

Why? Evidence is required from those who agree with the devil, when he said to Adam and Eve, "Hath God said..." (Genesis 3:1), which is a direct challenge to everything that Almighty God IS!

 

[Tree of Life]

A book is not scientific evidence of anything. The Bible is no more evidence of creationism than Origin of Species is evidence of evolution.

The problem with this statement from a Christian perspective is that the Bible is a unique book. Its words are not just human words, but God's words. So while the propositions of every other book are open to question, the Bible has inherent authority because it is the Word of God. Do you deny the authority of Scripture?

 

[Speedwell]

You saying that the God of the Holy Bible is a liar? That He has told us in His Most Holy Word, LIES???

What an offensive and arrogant suggestion.