Still hope?

[HannahT]

In other words, the male counselor looked at me and said, "you don't love God the way you should because if you did you would be loving your wife in a godly way." I agreed. He said something similar to her as well.

If they are saying you have a behavior disorder - or whatever they labeled it - I'm not so sure their response is helpful under these circumstances.

It maybe true on some levels the statements about loving your spouse in a Godly fashion. I don't take issue with that, but I'm not so sure this is the proper application at this time. That's just me.

Let's say you have something really extreme for a moment. Schizophrenia for example. YOU don't of course. Your not anywhere near that, but most know how awful that is for everyone - the individual and those that love them.

Most have heard stories of people that were either off their meds, or haven't been diagnosed, or trying to find the right cocktail of drugs to help the individual first. My mother had a coworker with a son with this serious disorder, and at times you even had to learn when to tweek the routine. This isn't a easy road to tow in life for anyone.

That's said - diagnosing the condition/starting treatment should be the first line of healing any relationship. Getting the condition under control brings hope, but telling the patient they don't love God right or they would have been the Godly person towards others? Telling the family member you don't love God right or you would have had the proper responses to their condition?

That just doesn't sit right with me. It maybe needed down the road once everyone has a better handle on things. Yet, no. In the proper application of those scriptures its more than helpful, but under these conditions? It can be taken as shamed based, and you don't need that right now.

It maybe just me here, but telling someone with a disorder you aren't right with God...and your spouse the same due to her reaction to it? That just doesn't sit right with me. That is something you bring to the table later in the game. It's way to early for that.

 

[Hferry22]

If they are saying you have a behavior disorder - or whatever they labeled it - I'm not so sure their response is helpful under these circumstances.

It's hard to write this down the correct way; my wife and I felt no shame in how or what they said; it was not a finger pointing sort of a comment. The comment to her was about her bitterness and resentment which she needed to address in counseling and before the Lord. Again, it's hard to put into words.

My appointment on May 16th with my Therapist is what will be a "digging deeper" sort of appointment to find out the root of my sarcastic sense of humor.

On a side note, what were your thoughts on her responses and "feel" on all of this...

 

[HannahT]

It's hard to write this down the correct way; my wife and I felt no shame in how or what they said; it was not a finger pointing sort of a comment. The comment to her was about her bitterness and resentment which she needed to address in counseling and before the Lord. Again, it's hard to put into words.

I get that it wasn't meant in a shaming way. Her bitterness and resentment isn't something she should marinate in for life. Yet, its is there for a reason. You admitted that yourself. She drew the line with you because she couldn't deal with that aspect of her life. She did what God would wish her to do. Confront you, and get help! You on the other hand have admitted guilt, and you also are moving forward. Actions on both parts are positive.

Claiming 'you don't love God the way you should' due to this isn't helpful. It's to early for that. Timing is everything. She reacted the way she did due to mistreatment, and that doesn't mean it will always be that way. On the other hand, your behavior disorder happened...and treatment needs to be started to deal with that. Your love for God can be shewed due to the disorder. Both are human aspects that should be seen with compassion and empathy.

I just didn't think it was appropriate under the circumstances. That's all my saying. There is a season for everything - which the bible mentions as well. I think they jumped the gun on that one. That aspect of this WOULD come later.

She also does not have the hope that I have for the marriage. I have the hope because I'm in control of my changing behavior and she's seen this before so she's not buying it. I understand.

She is a holding pattern at this point it sounds like. God has told her to wait. This is a good thing. You were afraid she would leave after this session, so this is a good thing. She is willing to hold by a thread. It's good she was comfortable with her personal boundaries of saying NO to date night as well. It's way to early for that anyway.

If we don't have peace within ourselves? We can't have peace with anyone else. You both need to find yourselves again, and start over as human beings. If done right? The rest will come. Just remember don't apply to much pressure. She is still teetering. There is to much to lose to push to far.

Concentrate on YOU! Dig deep and allow God to transform you. This is your first baby step!

 

[mkgal1]

In other words, the male counselor looked at me and said, "you don't love God the way you should because if you did you would be loving your wife in a godly way." I agreed. He said something similar to her as well.

I've been in enough Christian marital counseling to recognize this (and the suggestion for a too-soon date night). It seems to be the typical protocol that's followed. It also seems to imply that--if both of you were "loving God the way you should"--your marriage wouldn't be having difficulty. I disagree with that. "Loving God"--first of all--is a pretty vague statement.....and it doesn't address any unhealthy ways of dealing with things that we've picked up. Unhealthy doesn't mean "disobedient" or defiant. It also subtly implies that only "good Christians" can have healthy marriages (but that's probably a whole other thread).

Is your intensive therapy you're going through next week through a church-based counseling group? When I looked up "trauma egg", it looks to be used a lot for men with sexual addiction. Not to get too personal (and you don't have to answer, of course)....but is that what you two are dealing with? If so.....it may be a good idea to seek other counsel as well. To be blunt.....based on what you've said already, this marital counsel may do more damage than good. For instance....your wife isn't "bitter"....she's hurt. And for her to be portrayed that way dismisses her legitimate reactions (and may cause her to retreat from you even more).

 

[Hferry22]

I get that it wasn't meant in a shaming way. Her bitterness and resentment isn't something she should marinate in for life. Yet, its is there for a reason. You admitted that yourself. She drew the line with you because she couldn't deal with that aspect of her life. She did what God would wish her to do. Confront you, and get help! You on the other hand have admitted guilt, and you also are moving forward. Actions on both parts are positive.

Claiming 'you don't love God the way you should' due to this isn't helpful. It's to early for that. Timing is everything. She reacted the way she did due to mistreatment, and that doesn't mean it will always be that way. On the other hand, your behavior disorder happened...and treatment needs to be started to deal with that. Your love for God can be shewed due to the disorder. Both are human aspects that should be seen with compassion and empathy.

I just didn't think it was appropriate under the circumstances. That's all my saying. There is a season for everything - which the bible mentions as well. I think they jumped the gun on that one. That aspect of this WOULD come later.



She is a holding pattern at this point it sounds like. God has told her to wait. This is a good thing. You were afraid she would leave after this session, so this is a good thing. She is willing to hold by a thread. It's good she was comfortable with her personal boundaries of saying NO to date night as well. It's way to early for that anyway.

If we don't have peace within ourselves? We can't have peace with anyone else. You both need to find yourselves again, and start over as human beings. If done right? The rest will come. Just remember don't apply to much pressure. She is still teetering. There is to much to lose to push to far.

Concentrate on YOU! Dig deep and allow God to transform you. This is your first baby step!

Yes, by a thread she is hanging. Her language speaks in the future such as "we" statements. I just don't know how much we can actually work on the marriage right now while she waits to see change in me. Like I said, I see this guy on May 16th and then go from there. For the past 4-5 weeks I have been on good behavior (not faked) and am aware of not joking about her in any way at all. It's very awkward of course and I live each day wondering if this is the day she calls it quits. I won't end the marriage so the ball is in her court so to speak. It's in mine as far as getting help.

Honestly, it all really comes down to God right now. Of course he wants the marriage to work but there are two wills involved and kids too. This has been one of the worst seasons of my life, actually THE worst and I am asking for no sympathy of course. Just saying, lesson learned.

Yes, there is no pushing at all by me; no questions; no hints of worry, etc...just coming home and being "normal" while we go this route.

My denomination (Assemblies of God) offers FREE counseling to us credential holders through a very good counseling system. This is what I am using. I have reached out to my therapist too to update him and to see if the path we are on is the right one.

 

[Hferry22]

I've been in enough Christian marital counseling to recognize this (and the suggestion for a too-soon date night). It seems to be the typical protocol that's followed. It also seems to imply that--if both of you were "loving God the way you should"--your marriage wouldn't be having difficulty. I disagree with that. "Loving God"--first of all--is a pretty vague statement.....and it doesn't address any unhealthy ways of dealing with things that we've picked up. Unhealthy doesn't mean "disobedient" or defiant. It also subtly implies that only "good Christians" can have healthy marriages (but that's probably a whole other thread).

Is your intensive therapy you're going through next week through a church-based counseling group? When I looked up "trauma egg", it looks to be used a lot for men with sexual addiction. Not to get too personal (and you don't have to answer, of course)....but is that what you two are dealing with? If so.....it may be a good idea to seek other counsel as well. To be blunt.....based on what you've said already, this marital counsel may do more damage than good. For instance....your wife isn't "bitter"....she's hurt. And for her to be portrayed that way dismisses her legitimate reactions (and may cause her to retreat from you even more).

http://www.briangriswold.com/

This is who I am going to; through my denomination; Assemblies of God.

No sexual addiction; the trauma egg goes to our first memory of trauma in our own lives. He asked me to do this to see if he could trace anything from my childhood. I spoke with him on the phone for a few minutes two weeks ago and I immediately connected with him; he's no joke and has me doing this work to get ready for the visit; three hour visit.

I'm going to give this marital counseling session another go this week; my wife is at least willing to go which means to some small degree she doesn't want the marriage to fail?

 

[mkgal1]

This is who I am going to

I'm glad you're going to a licensed and educated therapist.

I'm going to give this marital counseling session another go this week; my wife is at least willing to go which means to some small degree she doesn't want the marriage to fail?

I'm hoping and praying along with you that's what that means.

 

[catch_the_music]

First of all - take a deep Breath - realize that although there are things you need to correct in your marriage - your wife is hanging in there. That is a very good thing. Not every marriage has that. Be sure to thank her for the fact she is hanging in there! I am glad you are going to Christian counseling. That is very good. Yes - our love for our wives does come from loving God first. That is the key. But how do we love God and love our wives? That will take us the rest of our lives to know fully. Take a small step every day towards loving your wife - she will notice - but maybe not every time. The key is to find resources on marriage. As men - we usually don't have a clue on where to look for ideas on how to love our wives. The good news is there are ministries that can help. Focus on the Family has lots of resources on marriage, communication and how to love our wives. Check out their website and listen to their daily radio broadcast. Attend a "Weekend to Remember" marriage seminar if you can. Most importantly - Pray! Pray something like "Lord I want to love you deeply, I want to love my wife deeply - show me how". Be patient. In time, God will show you lots of ways to love your wife. Pray with your wife every day. That is so key to a healthy marriage. Prayers for a much happier marriage ahead! Do these things and in a couple of years you will be amazed at how much deeper you love your wife. In time you will be able to help others with troubled marriages.

 

[Hferry22]

First of all - take a deep Breath - realize that although there are things you need to correct in your marriage - your wife is hanging in there. That is a very good thing. Not every marriage has that. Be sure to thank her for the fact she is hanging in there! I am glad you are going to Christian counseling. That is very good. Yes - our love for our wives does come from loving God first. That is the key. But how do we love God and love our wives? That will take us the rest of our lives to know fully. Take a small step every day towards loving your wife - she will notice - but maybe not every time. The key is to find resources on marriage. As men - we usually don't have a clue on where to look for ideas on how to love our wives. The good news is there are ministries that can help. Focus on the Family has lots of resources on marriage, communication and how to love our wives. Check out their website and listen to their daily radio broadcast. Attend a "Weekend to Remember" marriage seminar if you can. Most importantly - Pray! Pray something like "Lord I want to love you deeply, I want to love my wife deeply - show me how". Be patient. In time, God will show you lots of ways to love your wife. Pray with your wife every day. That is so key to a healthy marriage. Prayers for a much happier marriage ahead! Do these things and in a couple of years you will be amazed at how much deeper you love your wife. In time you will be able to help others with troubled marriages.

I agree, there are days when I feel like I'm in a panic over all of this and fear will really grip me. I've been working hard to hand those fears over to the Lord and let him take control of all of this. This is MAJOR stuff going on right now and a HUGE wake up call to me. I honestly did not know that I was being verbally and emotionally abusive; some here may shake their head at that statement but even my wife said she knew it was not intentional. I just didn't know and that's why I cry out to God for forgiveness for and ask him to not allow my actions to end this marriage. He wants this to succeed and so do I and I'm praying that my wife does as well.

It's good she is going with me to counseling; she's stated all along she wants the marriage to work but I had no idea she was/is ready to walk out and is only there because God told her to work on the marriage. I knew things were not well but had no idea it was this bad.

I do take "heart" in that when she told me that she did not want romance, pursuit etc...right now she would tell me WHEN she was ready; not IF, but WHEN.

Time will tell...

 

[Hferry22]

Advice....

I have apologized to my wife for these years of neglect on my part and for also snooping into her journal (first and only time).

When I apologized for snooping I told her that it showed a lack of respect for her and that I did not value her as a human being. I didn't just say "sorry."

I have been working on a letter to her that is not an apology letter but it is a letter of validation of her feelings. For example, "when you dreamed of marriage you never thought for better or worse meant you had to deal with more worse than better. This must be agonizing for you. I have not lived up to the standard of a godly husband."

My reason for doing this is not to "win" her heart back as much as it is to let her know that I validate those feelings and I recognize my role. It's not a letter about me or what I'm doing or steps I'm taking or how spiritual I am right now; it's about HER and her pain.

Thoughts?

 

[mkgal1]

I think that's a wonderful aim (to validate her feelings and admit to your role in causing some of them). Being "heard" and "understood" is typically what most people want over an apology (anyone can say, "sorry about that").

 

[Hferry22]

I think that's a wonderful aim (to validate her feelings and admit to your role in causing some of them). Being "heard" and "understood" is typically what most people want over an apology (anyone can say, "sorry about that").

Yeah, I will hope to have this done soon and have it looked at by my therapist.

Right now, it's a balancing act. I HAVE to go and get "me" fixed and whole. That is my priority. Obviously, the marriage and kids are a priority right now but if I don't get worked on myself then I can't hope for the change in my marriage that needs to take place.

 

[Hferry22]

So, tonight at 6:30pm is our second marriage counseling session. I would appreciate your prayers.

My wife has asked for space (see above messages) in her own way which I have been faithful to give her. She is worn out from all of this but yet I hear laughter in her each day. God is at work in her heart as he is in mine. Whatever "issues" she brings to the marriage is between her and God right now. I'm doing my best to rely completely on the Lord and trust him that these marriage counselors are the ones he has chosen for us. Please pray for wisdom for them over these next 11 weeks.

For me, to be honest, I have been worried a lot and obsessing over this too much. A friend pointed out that if I don't stop I will have a nervous breakdown. I don't say any of this for sympathy at all; just asking for prayer for peace of mind and complete trust in the Lord to reconcile and restore this marriage. It's very hard to NOT focus on the marriage and just focus on myself (working on my issues) but it's the very thing God wants me to do and the ONLY thing that will save the marriage. I have to "let this go" for this season and focus on me and God. Obviously, God wants the marriage to work and since we are both attending marriage counseling and have him in our corner then we have a great start; but this will be a long, hard journey.

Thanks for praying!

 

[Hferry22]

So, our second marriage counseling session was another hard one last week. Over the past few weeks my wife has become hopeless. A few weeks ago she thought this season would strengthen our marriage and on May 10th she doesn't even know that if I make the changes needed if she even still wants the marriage. She says sometimes you just have to throw something away. She basically says she does not know what she wants to do. Her flesh wants to leave but her spirit is keeping her in it. She's going through a very hard time right now.

My prayer has shifted to her and not on the marriage or our boys. She needs healing and wholeness.

I know I must sound like a monster to many of you and it's hard to put things into words but I truly was not aware of her pain until April 20th when she read the letter. I knew my sarcastic humor had grown thin at times but I never knew I was being verbally or emotionally abusive. Not looking for sympathy, just saying for what I said for a backdrop.

Since that time I have been very proactive in seeking counseling; I start with my licensed therapist this Wednesday. I'm excited to begin and I'm an open book ready to be dissected no matter what.

My wife is no longer in counseling.

I came home last evening and asked my wife if she liked the counseling we were receiving and she did not, neither have I. So, now we are back to square one looking for counseling. What we need are not pastoral counselors but actual licensed professionals. So, I will ask my therapist on Wednesday about him or other options and go from there. I also understand that Focus on the Family has some great counseling as well.

Everyone, I came home from lunch today and anointed the windows and doorways of our home and prayed over our house. I am crying out to God with all that I have for our marriage to be saved. Both parties have to be willing and right now I'm asking God to move in my wife's heart. She is hurting, struggling, etc...Her name is Sarah if you would like to pray for her by name.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

So, our second marriage counseling session was another hard one last week. Over the past few weeks my wife has become hopeless. A few weeks ago she thought this season would strengthen our marriage and on May 10th she doesn't even know that if I make the changes needed if she even still wants the marriage. She says sometimes you just have to throw something away. She basically says she does not know what she wants to do. Her flesh wants to leave but her spirit is keeping her in it. She's going through a very hard time right now.

My prayer has shifted to her and not on the marriage or our boys. She needs healing and wholeness.

I know I must sound like a monster to many of you and it's hard to put things into words but I truly was not aware of her pain until April 20th when she read the letter. I knew my sarcastic humor had grown thin at times but I never knew I was being verbally or emotionally abusive. Not looking for sympathy, just saying for what I said for a backdrop.

Since that time I have been very proactive in seeking counseling; I start with my licensed therapist this Wednesday. I'm excited to begin and I'm an open book ready to be dissected no matter what.

My wife is no longer in counseling.

I came home last evening and asked my wife if she liked the counseling we were receiving and she did not, neither have I. So, now we are back to square one looking for counseling. What we need are not pastoral counselors but actual licensed professionals. So, I will ask my therapist on Wednesday about him or other options and go from there. I also understand that Focus on the Family has some great counseling as well.

Everyone, I came home from lunch today and anointed the windows and doorways of our home and prayed over our house. I am crying out to God with all that I have for our marriage to be saved. Both parties have to be willing and right now I'm asking God to move in my wife's heart. She is hurting, struggling, etc...Her name is Sarah if you would like to pray for her by name.

I know you have been writing a lot about your experience, and you seem sold on this whole "therapy" thing, but to tell you the truth I really don't understand from your comments what horrible has gone on, other than your wife threatening to end your marriage. People use the term "abuse" these days to apply to nearly anything they don't like, especially if it comes from a man. However, threatening to end a marriage is much more abusive than a snide comment, and is ungodly and prideful to begin with.

The only therapy I believe you both need is to sit down with the Bible and live out what it teaches us about marriage, and about the Christian life in general. That's it. As you are the husband, you should lead this session Simply commit yourselves to doing what the Lord teaches. It is that simple. Forgive one another, as God has forgiven us, no matter what the wrong, and then proceed to obey God and praise Him together.

Marriage is for life by nature, and by God's command. Man cannot tear it apart. Let the past be the past. Lead your marriage according to the Bible. Probably the best thing you can do is dump the therapists, Christian or otherwise. God bless you.

I believe your wife needs to repent of her pride and threats against your marriage. It is not a Christian thing to do.

 

[mkgal1]

I believe your wife needs to repent of her pride and threats against your marriage. It is not a Christian thing to do.

......and this is probably the reason why she's become more hopeless, and why I agree with the OP that they need a licenced therapist.

 

[HannahT]

I came home last evening and asked my wife if she liked the counseling we were receiving and she did not, neither have I. So, now we are back to square one looking for counseling. What we need are not pastoral counselors but actual licensed professionals. So, I will ask my therapist on Wednesday about him or other options and go from there. I also understand that Focus on the Family has some great counseling as well.

Everyone, I came home from lunch today and anointed the windows and doorways of our home and prayed over our house. I am crying out to God with all that I have for our marriage to be saved. Both parties have to be willing and right now I'm asking God to move in my wife's heart. She is hurting, struggling, etc...Her name is Sarah if you would like to pray for her by name.

I think licensed professionals with a focus on the areas you all need is a great idea. Most tend to concentrate on dealing your different issues separately before they put you together. Both have separate issues to deal with - as you recognize, and then you have your martial issues. I've seen people do that, and it did a world of good.

Admitting and the owning the problem is 1/2 the battle. Most people like to stay in denial, because its easier. Think of a alcoholic for example - I'm not saying that this is your issue/family issue - they will fight the reality until they can't anymore. Sadly, they destroy everything in their path before they do. Some never do, and they just keep digging their hole.

You already have taken that one big huge step already. Admitting something is wrong. You will find someone that clicks. It may take time, but you will.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

......and this is probably the reason why she's become more hopeless, and why I agree with the OP that they need a licenced therapist.

No one is "hopeless" because of God's path for us, which is full of life and peace. One is only hopeless because of straying OFF of that path, and in this situation it sounds like her own deep selfishness.

Threatening to destroy a marriage and withholding affection are more abusive than anything in that post which described his behavior (though he may not have mentioned everything). Get off of the feminism. Live according to the Word of God. That is all you need. He really does have a path for us.

 

[HannahT]

Threatening to destroy a marriage and withholding affection are more abusive than anything in that post which described his behavior (though he may not have mentioned everything). Get off of the feminism. Live according to the Word of God. That is all you need. He really does have a path for us.

It's not feminism..lol! I'm not even sure how you get on or off it anyway.

She is staying because God is asking her to - according to the poster. This is a good thing. Working on the problems within the marriage - big or small - is just part of life. Anyone's life. Struggling and cooperating in the process is also being human. Any human. Every marriage has its up's and down's - and struggles on many different levels. I think they are both doing the right thing, and moving in the right direction. We as humans learn and grow from such experiences.

Since the poster really hasn't gone into detail about his relationship - which is fine, better done in therapy - your simplistic advice may work for you, but doesn't mean it would work for everyone. Your opinion noted. Getting counsel and struggling through this is covered in the bible. What they need is our prayer and support as they walk this path. Fighting our human flaws can be very difficult, but doing it anyway shows great strength. The starting point - which they are at - is always the most difficult part.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

It's not feminism..lol! I'm not even sure how you get on or off it anyway.

She is staying because God is asking her to - according to the poster. This is a good thing. Working on the problems within the marriage - big or small - is just part of life. Anyone's life. Struggling and cooperating in the process is also being human. Any human. Every marriage has its up's and down's - and struggles on many different levels. I think they are both doing the right thing, and moving in the right direction. We as humans learn and grow from such experiences.

Since the poster really hasn't gone into detail about his relationship - which is fine, better done in therapy - your simplistic advice may work for you, but doesn't mean it would work for everyone. Your opinion noted. Getting counsel and struggling through this is covered in the bible. What they need is our prayer and support as they walk this path. Fighting our human flaws can be very difficult, but doing it anyway shows great strength. The starting point - which they are at - is always the most difficult part.

Following God's path in the Bible my be simply, but it is good. That is our first base for understanding and decision making. I tend to think if he and she and followed such simple advice from the start, and followed the Word of God, this situation would not have grown to the grander scale it has.

True, we do not know all of the details, but that is hardly a good reason to continue to recommend therapists, many of whom certainly do NOT believe in the Word of God. I believe in getting counsel too, absolutely, simply not from worldviews that are very secular. Considering they likely missed out on basing their home on the Word of God, I believe following its simple truths are the best to reestablish things.

And there is a BIG problem if Christians think passing snide remarks are "abusive" but withholding intimacy and threatening a divorce are not. Big distortion of reality there. Think about it.