Still hope?

[Hferry22]

Hello,

I'm new here and a 47 year old male. My wife and I will be married 17 years this June. We have two children; 12 and 2.

In 2004 I had an affair that lasted a few months. My wife forgave me and we separated for one month while we both went to counseling individually and then also in marriage counseling one month later. We also went to Emerge Ministries in Ohio.

In 2009 My wife was unhappy and so we went to Emerge Ministries in Ohio again. My joking had taken a toll. I worked on this for awhile but...

In 2018 My wife started going to counseling...

On April 20th my wife read me a letter that stated for 17 years she has been living in an emotionally and verbally abusive marriage and she is ready to leave and has done the financial work to know that she can take care of the boys. My heart sank...she then asked if I was willing to make changes. I said, yes, and apologized for my abuse. I did not know comments like "you can't take a joke" or "get over it" were signs of abuse. Her counselor has given her information from Leslie Vernick which has empowered her to speak up.

For the three weeks prior to this she had shut down emotionally and physically. We have not had sex since Easter weekend. She won't talk about the marriage until we go to marriage counseling. The letter she read me was actually going to be read during our first session. I'm happy that it came out 10 days ago.

I'm trying to "read" my wife to see if she wants this to work. I know she is scared and cautious because she doesn't believe I will change. I think she wants to but she's cautious. She does not want her two boys to grow up and treat their wives like their dad has. To be clear there is no physical abuse at all; just snide comments over the years that have taken a toll.

I own this and I am going to intensive counseling on May 16th; I'm currently working on homework by doing the Trauma Egg. I found out that my dad said my mom said the same thing about him. No excuse but it all goes back to childhood.

My wife has verbally said she wants this to work but she isn't sure if it will. I'm scared to death. We have two boys.

On Sunday she was in a great mood; she went out with our associate pastor's wife for dinner and came back in the same good mood she left in. She spoke with me more on Sunday than at any other time over this past month of emotional and physical shutdown. Of course I'm hanging on to all hope and doing my best to trust God in all of this. I even asked her if she got her favorite and she said yes, do you know what it is? I told her and she smiled.

I know this is all somewhat vague so questions are welcomed but a female voice to all of this would be great! We are going to marriage counseling on Thursday of this week so that's a good sign but I'm hoping another letter won't be read

My close friends think that if she wanted out she'd be out and April 20th of reading the letter would have been the ideal time; she is scared, cautious, hopeful etc...

My response to the letter was not what she expected; she expected me to get up and walk out. That tells you something about the way I have viewed her feelings.

Listen, I've been a jerk and I own it. I've apologized profusely and I know it takes an ultimatum sometimes. With Jesus there is hope.

Any takeaways?

 

[snoochface]

I think if you can hold on to your resolve and make real, lasting, core-of-your-being changes in how you speak to her, view her, and respect her - yes, there is hope. You're on the right track already. Just make sure it lasts. You already know that you let her down at least twice in big ways, and she's still willing to give you another chance. I suspect you don't want to let her down again though...

 

[Hferry22]

Does is sound like she's giving me the chance? Stupid question?

No, I will not let her down in these ways again or any other way either. I know she doesn't trust the changes but my Associate Pastor's wife had dinner with her on Sunday and of course I texted them both and asked, "are you still just as encouraged Monday as you were with me on Sunday?" The reply...Patience. Action. No Words. Obviously, I took that to mean the dinner went well and this is what my wife wants/needs.

She already sees me working on my trauma egg that my therapist gave me, knows I have taken May 16th off of work to go to a three hour intensive session which is two hours away. I'm doing all that I can.

Her letter was her attempt to save the marriage but she was unsure of how I would respond so she was ready to leave. I know she is not in love with me now and probably doesn't like me but I'm anxious for our marriage session on Thursday.

 

[snoochface]

It seems like she is unwilling to give up on you or the marriage until she feels that she has really given it every possible chance. You surprised her with your reaction, and she is still willing to go forward with the counseling, so I think yes, it does sound like she is willing to give you the chance. But she's leery, and weary, and building back trust that has been broken in the ways you've broken them since you had the affair is not a 3-hours-in-therapy-and-a-Trauma-Egg thing. It's an every-day-of-your-life-for-the-rest-of-your-life thing. Not that you'll have to earn her trust every day forever, but the earning back will take a good long time, and then the holding on to and not losing that trust again will be every day. So be sure you are fully prepared to put in the work for the long-haul too, and not just for these next few months that are in front of you.

 

[Hidden In Him]

To be clear there is no physical abuse at all; just snide comments over the years that have taken a toll... any takeaways?

Yeah, snide comments actually do count as a form of abuse in my book, mental abuse. That could be the result of several things, even just being a little "playful," but scripture says that husbands are to give honor to their wives (1 Peter 3:7). I believe this means among other things showing her respect. We hurt women's feelings more than we realize sometimes, and if you are truly walking in love you wouldn't be doing that sort of thing. The command is "husbands love your wives, as Christ loved the church," and the Lord does not make snide remarks to His bride.

Christ Jesus will be with you if you ask Him to be. If I were you I would spend days, maybe weeks in meditation, practicing and envisioning myself saying only that which ministers grace to her and builds her up in honor (Ephesians 4:29).

Best wishes. Hope it works out for you.

 

[Hferry22]

I have looked at it like a health issue; I did not know I was "sick" until this diagnosis came out on April 20th. This does NOT excuse my behavior but it did expose it and bring it to light. Now that I have a diagnosis, this trauma egg/therapy session is the beginning of healing. Over the past few weeks during this season I have been seeking the face of God like never before. So when the letter was read on April 20th, it hurt to hear the words (abuser) but she was right. For the past three weeks I've been on "good behavior", making changes that will last and that's all I can do. I think the fact that she helped me draw the egg and offer to get me the colored pencils was an indication of help, too. She cares as much as she can now.

For me, it's different this time around. Why? Because of what the letter and her therapist exposed and the ramifications of what happens if I don't change and really change. I'm asking God for radical, come to Jesus change in my life. Therapy will be part of the equation.

I'm in this for the long haul; we haven't had sex since Easter but I'm willing to go three months, six months or even a year without if that means I can spend a lifetime with her.

 

[Hferry22]

Yeah, snide comments actually do count as a form of abuse in my book, mental abuse. That could be the result of several things, even just being a little "playful," but scripture says that husbands are to give honor to their wives (1 Peter 3:7). I believe this means among other things showing her respect. We hurt women's feelings more than we realize sometimes, and if you are truly walking in love you wouldn't be doing that sort of thing. The command is "husbands love your wives, as Christ loved the church," and the Lord does not make snide remarks to His bride.

Christ Jesus will be with you if you ask Him to be. If I were you I would spend days, maybe weeks in meditation, practicing and envisioning myself saying only that which ministers grace to her and builds her up in honor (Ephesians 4:29).

Best wishes. Hope it works out for you.

I agree. I have not followed Scripture as a husband should. All of my language/comments are all pleasing now and I'm trying not to force anything either.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I agree. I have not followed Scripture as a husband should. All of my language/comments are all pleasing now and I'm trying not to force anything either.

Good. Speak words that honor her, but ones you truly mean from your heart. And if you have trouble finding ways to honor her with words and actions, just go to God in prayer asking Him to reveal to you ways that you can.

I'm in this for the long haul; we haven't had sex since Easter but I'm willing to go three months, six months or even a year without if that means I can spend a lifetime with her.

You won't have to wait that long if she sees you are really putting forth an effort. She probably wants it even more than you do, but she knows things have to change, and not just for a week or two.

Again, envision yourself building her up continually, almost like a type of reprogramming. Become a new man for her, not just a modified version of the old man.

Blessings in Christ.

 

[Poppyseed78]

Most abusers don't change. So please stop patting yourself on the back about all the "progress" you're making. It's all just words. Real progress will show in your behavior in the months and years ahead. Your wife was ready to leave, and very likely still is. You need to show her compassion, not just when you happen to be in a good mood, or feeling affectionate, but even when you don't feel like it; ESPECIALLY when you don't feel like it. Snide comments are indeed emotionally and verbally abusive. Your words to your wife need to be uplifting and loving, not degrading and demeaning.

And you need to make changes not just because you want her to stay, or because you want to keep your family together, but because you respect her and want to treat her with the respect that she deserves. Abusive behavior comes out of attitudes of entitlement and a desire for power and control. It's all well and good that you are working on your "trauma," but honestly, your wife is the one with the trauma here. Trauma that you have intentionally inflicted. It will take much more than a few therapy sessions and a few apologies to right the wrong. The only way to heal what abuse has inflicted, is by replacing that abuse with compassion.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Again, envision yourself building her up continually, almost like a type of reprogramming. Become a new man for her, not just a modified version of the old man.

And don't get sidetracked, LoL. You have to believe in yourself, i.e. that you can do this, so don't get discouraged. Believe in God, believe in yourself, and believe in her.

 

[Hferry22]

Most abusers don't change. So please stop patting yourself on the back about all the "progress" you're making. It's all just words. Real progress will show in your behavior in the months and years ahead. Your wife was ready to leave, and very likely still is. You need to show her compassion, not just when you happen to be in a good mood, or feeling affectionate, but even when you don't feel like it; ESPECIALLY when you don't feel like it. Snide comments are indeed emotionally and verbally abusive. Your words to your wife need to be uplifting and loving, not degrading and demeaning.

And you need to make changes not just because you want her to stay, or because you want to keep your family together, but because you respect her and want to treat her with the respect that she deserves. Abusive behavior comes out of attitudes of entitlement and a desire for power and control. It's all well and good that you are working on your "trauma," but honestly, your wife is the one with the trauma here. Trauma that you have intentionally inflicted. It will take much more than a few therapy sessions and a few apologies to right the wrong. The only way to heal what abuse has inflicted, is by replacing that abuse with compassion.

Thank you for your comments and you’re candor. I’m not patting myself on the back as much as I am, for the sake of conversation, letting people know the steps that I am taking.

The trauma egg is what my therapist gave me as homework to do to prep for counseling.

I know I have inflicted trauma and I see it everyday that I live here; it’s my consequence for my actions and sadly she’s paid the price too.

This abuser will change through the grace of God. I am doing this for me and not to keep anyone. My healing will help the marriage move forward, i hope

 

[Hferry22]

Most abusers don't change. So please stop patting yourself on the back about all the "progress" you're making. It's all just words. Real progress will show in your behavior in the months and years ahead. Your wife was ready to leave, and very likely still is. You need to show her compassion, not just when you happen to be in a good mood, or feeling affectionate, but even when you don't feel like it; ESPECIALLY when you don't feel like it. Snide comments are indeed emotionally and verbally abusive. Your words to your wife need to be uplifting and loving, not degrading and demeaning.

And you need to make changes not just because you want her to stay, or because you want to keep your family together, but because you respect her and want to treat her with the respect that she deserves. Abusive behavior comes out of attitudes of entitlement and a desire for power and control. It's all well and good that you are working on your "trauma," but honestly, your wife is the one with the trauma here. Trauma that you have intentionally inflicted. It will take much more than a few therapy sessions and a few apologies to right the wrong. The only way to heal what abuse has inflicted, is by replacing that abuse with compassion.

I read your post quickly last night and responded quickly too.

I do appreciate your feedback and hear what you are saying. I really do. It's my fault. This letter was read to me on April 20th but two weeks prior to this I started to take things seriously (fasting, praying, Bible reading, etc...). I also sought out counseling at this local church that has a counseling ministry. They were back logged but I kept following up. It took a month for us to get into marriage counseling which is tomorrow night. I have spoken to my Associate Pastor three times now and he has a counseling background, have spoken to another therapist on the phone who then connected me to this guy I am seeing on May 16th. I also saw a local therapist that was listed as a "christian" counselor but was far from it. So, not "patting" but just saying I've obviously taken this very seriously. So, for a month now I have been focused on all of this and esteeming my wife as much as I can without pushing too hard.

Yes, I have much, much to prove and I hope she gives it a final chance. This diagnosis is the first time that a name has been put to what I have been doing. No excuses but just saying it's out and now can be properly dealt with.

We are together but in essence separated in the same home. Routine is "normal" for the kids and yet awkward for us. Some decent but not deep communication and some laughter but again just awkward.

So, a month is nothing but it's a start on my end and I'm serious about getting the help that I need. I have admitted my behavior, sought counseling and am going, apologized to my oldest son for any behavior he has seen and have been proactive in changing myself.

 

[HannahT]

Keep in mind this will NOT be an easy journey for you. Chances are you are going to have to give way more than you are used to, or ever felt you would have too. It's going to be uncomfortable, and you will have the urge to demand things in return. Fight that urge! It will blow up in your face.

You need to allow things to happen naturally, and on her time. Pressure isn't going to help anything. People - not just individuals like yourself - tend to apply pressure to move things along. They don't realize it has the opposite effect. It's basically a 'get over it' type of response, but delivered in a different fashion. It also comes across as a 'what about me', and that will get you a whole lot of nothing. It may work - in some fashions - with different dynamics within other types of relationship dynamics, but this is a different type of egg. It won't work here.

Trust after this type of thing is difficult, and it takes a long time. Please don't go the route to many do. Don't list all the things you have done, and changed...and hint you need something from her now. She will retract. Don't hint that you need to see signs that her feelings are changing, because if your change is genuine? You won't have too, and she will volunteer it. It will be agonizing. You need to sit in those feelings. It will past, and it will make you a healthier person. If you can conquer this? You will feel like a better person, and that will be enough. Genuine people are the ones that want to be around, and its like a moth to the light.

Remember this will be a lifetime journey.

 

[Hferry22]

Keep in mind this will NOT be an easy journey for you. Chances are you are going to have to give way more than you are used to, or ever felt you would have too. It's going to be uncomfortable, and you will have the urge to demand things in return. Fight that urge! It will blow up in your face.

You need to allow things to happen naturally, and on her time. Pressure isn't going to help anything. People - not just individuals like yourself - tend to apply pressure to move things along. They don't realize it has the opposite effect. It's basically a 'get over it' type of response, but delivered in a different fashion. It also comes across as a 'what about me', and that will get you a whole lot of nothing. It may work - in some fashions - with different dynamics within other types of relationship dynamics, but this is a different type of egg. It won't work here.

Trust after this type of thing is difficult, and it takes a long time. Please don't go the route to many do. Don't list all the things you have done, and changed...and hint you need something from her now. She will retract. Don't hint that you need to see signs that her feelings are changing, because if your change is genuine? You won't have too, and she will volunteer it. It will be agonizing. You need to sit in those feelings. It will past, and it will make you a healthier person. If you can conquer this? You will feel like a better person, and that will be enough. Genuine people are the ones that want to be around, and its like a moth to the light.

Remember this will be a lifetime journey.

Well, I am encouraged that she is going to marriage counseling tomorrow night. Sure, I live in fear everyday that she may just be done and that may be a reality to her on some days but for the past month I have been digging deeper within myself and asking God to bring to light what I need to change.

It is already very agonizing. Today, I took her a Diet Coke to her classroom (she is a teacher) and not much of a response. I held it together but as I got outside I took a deep breath. Yes, this will be a long journey.

My oldest son, 12, said to me in the car today that I seemed happier. If he sees it I know she does but she's not showing she does of course and is guarded more than Fort Knox right now. I get it.

The letter that she read to me on April 20th asking me if I was willing to change was supposed to be read tomorrow during our first counseling session together. So, I'm nervous that another letter will come out saying she is done; just a natural fear of "another letter." The people close to her and us don't have that fear; they believe she wants this to work but it will be a LONG journey.

I want to get tomorrow night "over with" and see what this marriage counseling couple suggests moving forward. This is a next step for us but MANY more for me.

 

[Hferry22]

If anyone on this thread is reading this please pray for us tonight as we go to our first marriage counseling class. I'm extremely nervous. My wife hasn't spoken much about the marriage and is saving any deep talks for this session. She's going so that's good and means she wants it to work out but I know she's skeptical of me and understandably so. Praying for God's favor on us tonight.

For me, I'm not going in with any agenda or a pat on the back of what I'm doing; I'm going to listen and be gracious and kind in my responses. This is all on me...

Comments/Advice/Encouragement welcomed...

p.s. please pray for my wife; I know she's had a very hard time and is nervous as well. Her allergies have been bad this week too...

 

[Hidden In Him]

For me, I'm not going in with any agenda or a pat on the back of what I'm doing; I'm going to listen and be gracious and kind in my responses. This is all on me...

Comments/Advice/Encouragement welcomed...

It's good that you say these things. Let me caution you with one more thing, and I hope this is not the case, but just be prepared in case it turns out to be: Be prepared to be understanding if one of the things she reveals is that there is someone else in her life, or at least was for a short time because of the unhappiness she was experiencing. She forgave you of unfaithfulness, so be prepared to forgive her. I am NOT saying this will definitely happen for sure. I'm just saying be prepared just in case. As Hannah was saying, if you are not prepared for every possibility and ready to go the extra mile under any circumstances, you may mess up your chances at convincing her you really want it to work.

God bless, and I am praying for you.

 

[Hferry22]

It's good that you say these things. Let me caution you with one more thing, and I hope this is not the case, but just be prepared in case it turns out to be: Be prepared to be understanding if one of the things she reveals is that there is someone else in her life, or at least was for a short time because of the unhappiness she was experiencing. She forgave you of unfaithfulness, so be prepared to forgive her. I am NOT saying this will definitely happen for sure. I'm just saying be prepared just in case. As Hannah was saying, if you are not prepared for every possibility and ready to go the extra mile under any circumstances, you may mess up your chances at convincing her you really want it to work.

God bless, and I am praying for you.

We have already discussed this and there isn't anything going on with her or with me that involves other people. I know you don't know us but that's the last thing my wife would do to God or the kids (or to me as she said).

I have no idea what she will say tonight; her friends know more than I do right now.

All I know is that last night she said she's ready to get started.

 

[Hidden In Him]

We have already discussed this and there isn't anything going on with her or with me that involves other people. I know you don't know us but that's the last thing my wife would do to God or the kids (or to me as she said).

Well that's good. I'm glad. I just didn't want you to get blindsided by something you were not ready to handle. No sexual contact can sometimes mean bad things.

 

[snoochface]

How did it go?

 

[Hferry22]

Hi folks,

Okay, I was as nervous as anything before last Thursday's marriage counseling session.

We are receiving biblical based counseling from a local church who has a counseling ministry program. A man and his wife are counseling us.

On April 20th; the letter was read to me stating that my wife was ready to walk out and she has done the math to take care of the kids and then she asked if I was willing to make changes; yes.

This past Thursday we were asked for to give a brief reason as to why we were there; they had our intake forms but wanted to hear from us.

My wife said, "I'm basically done and I'm here because Jesus told me I need to work on my marriage." Boom!!!

I'm crying, scared, worried, etc...but by the end of the session she said she is coming back next week (this week). Now, since we are nowhere near ready to work on the marriage they are focusing us on our walk with God, first. They believe, as I'm sure we all do, that the root issues in our marriages stem fro our walk with Christ. In other words, the male counselor looked at me and said, "you don't love God the way you should because if you did you would be loving your wife in a godly way." I agreed. He said something similar to her as well.

Early on he had suggested that we go out on a date but I knew she would have nothing of it and said so; she asked me to ask her and I did and she said, "no." Then she asked me to ask her what she wanted so I did and her reply, "I don't want to be dated, pursued or romanced. I will let you know when I'm ready."

She also does not have the hope that I have for the marriage. I have the hope because I'm in control of my changing behavior and she's seen this before so she's not buying it. I understand.

When we have gone to marriage counseling in the past it was situational for the moment; this time it is personal. I have a diagnosis that we can now treat and from what my father revealed to me a path back to childhood to uncover why I act the way that I do.

With all of that being said, there must be some hope on her end in order to keep coming back to marriage counseling. I have been broken before her and I know she sees my current behavior and also sees me going to counseling appointments too. At this point I can do nothing more than continue to make these life lasting changes and allow her the time/space she needs to heal. As a man I wish I could fix it all and make it better but I'd rather leave that in God's hands. So, I'm not pushy at home and we are basically just living as friends right now which is fine with me. This will be a long journey and longer than the 11 other weeks we still have for counseling.

I meet with the male counselor for an additional hour after our marriage counseling, too.

Thoughts?