Still hope?

[Hferry22]

Another follow up; I am really struggling a few days into this separation. I miss my boys a lot!! I see my oldest boy almost every day since I drive him to school but I don't see my two year old but only three times a week. This is really hard for me right now and today I felt a bit of a panic set in. I had a really good cry.

Do you guys think any marriage counseling is good right now? My wife and I have yet to really sit down and talk about the issues. She is focused on healing and so am I to some extent. So, if she is focused on self care then perhaps marriage counseling is a "waste" of time right now? I know it's not a one size fits all but your advice on coping and thoughts are helpful.

 

[snoochface]

I think each of you should focus on your own individual counseling for the time being. There is time for marriage counseling. She is not seeking divorce right now, but time and space. She needs to figure out her stuff, and wants you to figure out yours, and then when you are both in a better place emotionally and mentally, you can begin to work on your issues together.

 

[Hferry22]

I think each of you should focus on your own individual counseling for the time being. There is time for marriage counseling. She is not seeking divorce right now, but time and space. She needs to figure out her stuff, and wants you to figure out yours, and then when you are both in a better place emotionally and mentally, you can begin to work on your issues together.

Yesterday was a bad day for me, a lot of fear, worry, etc...I know this is to be expected especially in the early stages when all of this is very raw. I do go home for lunch each day until school lets out on June 8th (she is a teacher) and I prayed over her side of the bed, the boys beds and the home. It's very, very hard to be in there but I do it.

I miss my wife the most out of all of this, I really do. Is there a way to convey this to her verbally or in written form or should I just back off totally? Is it manipulative or pushy on my part to do that right now? I can be manipulative and not even know it which will be my focus on my next counseling session on May 30th in Baltimore. So, I have to be on guard for manipulation. Female wisdom would be helpful....

 

[snoochface]

Personally, I would say do not try to convey this to her right now. You are days into your separation - of course your emotions are raw. I'm so sorry that you're feeling that way because I know how helpless it is to be in a situation you have no control over and want SO badly to exert some control. "If I could just do XYZ, things would get better" is the natural thought process.

Unfortunately, it simply is out of your control right now, and this is where you lean on God. You can do all things through him, who strengthens you. This has blindsided you, but it hasn't blindsided God. This isn't a surprise to him. He knew this was coming, and he has already given you the tools that you need to get through it. Be still, and know that he is God.

I think any overtures on your part right now would seem manipulative to your wife. The best way to show her how much you love and respect her is to respect her process and give it a little time and space before starting those conversations. Trust God to get you through this rough time.

 

[Hferry22]

Personally, I would say do not try to convey this to her right now. You are days into your separation - of course your emotions are raw. I'm so sorry that you're feeling that way because I know how helpless it is to be in a situation you have no control over and want SO badly to exert some control. "If I could just do XYZ, things would get better" is the natural thought process.

Unfortunately, it simply is out of your control right now, and this is where you lean on God. You can do all things through him, who strengthens you. This has blindsided you, but it hasn't blindsided God. This isn't a surprise to him. He knew this was coming, and he has already given you the tools that you need to get through it. Be still, and know that he is God.

I think any overtures on your part right now would seem manipulative to your wife. The best way to show her how much you love and respect her is to respect her process and give it a little time and space before starting those conversations. Trust God to get you through this rough time.

I think this is very good advice. I appreciate this forum very much. I am in much need of prayer as is my wife and two boys. God is for marriage and not divorce so we have that going for us for sure. I have to find a way to tune this out to the degree that I can but it's hard because it won't go away. So, it is THE thing to pray for right now.

I see my wife and kids tonight, wife briefly as she heads out when I arrive and then I see her again when she returns home a few hours later. Waiting until the end of August is going to be a very, very challenging time for me and of course for her.

 

[HannahT]

Do you guys think any marriage counseling is good right now? My wife and I have yet to really sit down and talk about the issues. She is focused on healing and so am I to some extent. So, if she is focused on self care then perhaps marriage counseling is a "waste" of time right now? I know it's not a one size fits all but your advice on coping and thoughts are helpful.

Not a good time. You both need to work on personal issues that are driving the relationship apart. At this point you really do know the true issue, and its hard to sit with. It is. You also have to acknowledge that you both have mentioned the issues in the past, but you may not have been ready to hear them - or take them as seriously as you needed too. You may feel she didn't say them loud enough, or strong enough, etc. Yet. you have acknowledged her communication of them. She may feel talked out, and you need to back off a bit. Your panic - which is understandable - is something you must sit with for a while. This to shall past! New feelings are hard to deal with. YOU can do this!

Feelings are raw on both ends, and it may NOT be a very good time to talk about anything but surface stuff. You don't want the emotions to spill out in wrong ways. Remember it can be easy to do under the circumstances, and it will hinder this whole experience.

You need to keep working on your own stuff, and don't write letters etc to her. It is a good exercise to do for your own use. You don't want to come off as pushy in anyway - or she will retract. It will be hard - as you have experienced. Yet, it is possible.

Find things to keep you busy - it will help. I am talking about things NOT related to family of course. When my father was alive he would find crafts that helped him calm down. Dad found he had a true gift with his creative side, and it was something he explored for the rest of his life. Bro and I entered some of his stuff in shows, and surprised him with that. He won best of show a couple of times. It helped ground him in difficult times in his life. That's just an example of course! Others have sports they play, fishing, hunting, etc. Goodness there are plenty of things to explore! Find somewhere to put all that energy! It will help!

 

[Hferry22]

Not a good time. You both need to work on personal issues that are driving the relationship apart. At this point you really do know the true issue, and its hard to sit with. It is. You also have to acknowledge that you both have mentioned the issues in the past, but you may not have been ready to hear them - or take them as seriously as you needed too. You may feel she didn't say them loud enough, or strong enough, etc. Yet. you have acknowledged her communication of them. She may feel talked out, and you need to back off a bit. Your panic - which is understandable - is something you must sit with for a while. This to shall past! New feelings are hard to deal with. YOU can do this!

Feelings are raw on both ends, and it may NOT be a very good time to talk about anything but surface stuff. You don't want the emotions to spill out in wrong ways. Remember it can be easy to do under the circumstances, and it will hinder this whole experience.

You need to keep working on your own stuff, and don't write letters etc to her. It is a good exercise to do for your own use. You don't want to come off as pushy in anyway - or she will retract. It will be hard - as you have experienced. Yet, it is possible.

Find things to keep you busy - it will help. I am talking about things NOT related to family of course. When my father was alive he would find crafts that helped him calm down. Dad found he had a true gift with his creative side, and it was something he explored for the rest of his life. Bro and I entered some of his stuff in shows, and surprised him with that. He won best of show a couple of times. It helped ground him in difficult times in his life. That's just an example of course! Others have sports they play, fishing, hunting, etc. Goodness there are plenty of things to explore! Find somewhere to put all that energy! It will help!

Both yours and Smooch advice are very good and on point with what my local friends/therapist are also saying. It's just soooo hard to do right now. I have watched her "digress" over the past two months from texting me, "I have hope that our marriage will grow stronger through this season" to a four month separation. When I see this and look at things on the surface none of this "feels" good BUT I have hope through Christ. I just don't know why she has "digressed" while I have "improved" and made all of the necessary steps to get "fixed" on my end. I'm heading to my next therapy session on May 30th which is another two hours on top of the two I have gotten already. So, I will have four hours of therapy with a board certified, licensed therapist which will be ongoing. My denomination (Assemblies of God) will pay up to $2000 for me since I am affiliated with them; so that's 20 sessions of clinical therapy if I need it. I'm not counting any "therapy" given my pastoral staff which is also extra counseling hours. I'm no saint of course and expect no sympathy but I'm doing all that I can right now and it seems like she has become colder and colder to the point of a four month separation. From a female perspective is this "normal"? I know that normal is a relative term but it boggles my mind how much she has gone "downhill" towards me in just two months...

 

[HannahT]

Every human is different and complicated. I'm not sure if there really is a FEMALE prospective in this type of dynamic, but certainly a human one. Things only began to change once the threats and actions were brought forward, and she may have some major resentment over that. You have to remember sometimes people do no say or do things under those circumstances, because they might allow their raw emotions to surface..and say something they can't ever take back. Sometimes its better NOT to say anything at all until you have resolved things in your mind. No need to add to the baggage here.

You have acknowledged things, but the issues are far from fixed. Don't rush it! Don't keep score on how much you have done, and fall into that trap of when is she going to do things to make my life NOT feel so scattered. This has been going on for years, and its NOT a easy cycle to break.

Try to put it in a different prospective - or point of view - using a different issue. In a past post I mentioned alcoholism. NOT your issue for sure! Yet - think of it this way - I drank for years and wasn't the best partner in life...but for the last two months I quit drinking and I'm going to AA. You may have improved and started your journey to deal with the addiction, but the damage from the past is what caused this WHOLE dynamic to go down in the first place. There is a trust factor within your relationship that has been damaged, and a fear that you will hurt them again. What happens when people hurt you? You tend to distance yourself until you feel safe enough to get closer - and this will take some time.

No doubt she has felt the coldest of you - maybe unintentionally, but it was there - for years. Now she has to wrap her mind around things - just as you do. She may have to learn boundaries for example. She maybe learning to be more assertive at this point in her life, and many people have a really hard time with that. You have hurt her, but she still loves you - and doesn't know what to do with that right now. The relationship isn't healthy, and it needs to be. She was a brave woman to face this, and its NOT uncommon or unusual that you BOTH are scared right now. Who wouldn't be?

I can't get into her mind to let you know WHY she specifically different now. She could feel your yearning, and she just can't right now. She is scared too, and maybe not be capable being whom you need right now. She may be doing the best she can do just to keep it together. Walk softly IMO. You are both struggling...that part is normal.

 

[snoochface]

Imagine someone has run over your foot with their car every day for 20 years. It's always unintentional, never meant in malice, but still, your foot is being run over every day and it hurts. You know they don't mean to do it, so you change where you stand in relation to the car, getting a little further and further away from it to avoid having your foot run over, and things are better for a while, but still occasionally you get your foot run over.

Finally, your foot is so damaged you can hardly walk on it and you have pain every day. You get to the point where nothing is working so you tell the person in the car that you've had enough and you're not going to allow your foot to get run over anymore. They finally understand what they've done to mangle your foot and promise to be more aware of what they're doing.

But they still have the keys to the car. Your foot still requires therapy and time to heal, and if they mess up again it might hurt you to the point where you can't walk anymore. So you say no, give me the keys, and you have to go to intensive driver education while I go to physical therapy until my foot heals. That will take about four months. A week in, they start telling you, "I haven't run over your foot in a long time now, and I've gone to two hours of driving training - all you're doing is soaking your foot in a foot bath every day." But it's been 20 years of having your foot run over, it takes time to heal, and while it's great that they have been in driver training, they can still do irreparable damage to your foot while it's healing. Plus, it's not up to them to say how long it takes for your foot to heal - it's YOUR foot!

Extrapolate. Don't bean count. She needs time. This is no small thing for her. She doesn't want to blow up her marriage and her kids' lives. She doesn't do this lightly. She does it because it is a huge deal to her and she wants it done right before it can't be fixed anymore. Don't keep pushing - it comes across as selfish on your part, and like you feel like you're doing all the work while she is doing nothing but regressing. But you also did the damage over a long period of time. Give her a small percentage of that time to heal herself.

 

[Hferry22]

Hey guys, this is GREAT advice from both of you. THIS is what I need right now. Both of your examples are on point and I do apologize for coming across as selfish. I wasn't aware of the full extent of pain/damage that I had caused until April 20th when the letter was written. I really wasn't. No excuse of course. I'm just so nervous, full of guilt (which I have been forgiven of but still bring up on my own), anxious etc...which is causing me to panic some days.

All good advice; thanks!

 

[Hferry22]

Oh, one more thing...

Last Thursday when she asked for the separation she said that my "changes" over the past 4-6 weeks seemed surfacey and that she felt I still did not get it. Without knowing any specifics from her how do you "prove" real change to someone and how do you show that you "get it?"

I'm truly broken over this but she feels that I'm not. I'm not sure if there is anything I can DO other than pray and allow the Holy Spirit to reveal that to her?

 

[HannahT]

Without knowing any specifics from her how do you "prove" real change to someone and how do you show that you "get it?"

You might want to google stories of people that have experienced stuff similar to your wive's. Some are worse than others of course, but gender doesn't matter. Honestly? Neither is the type of relationship. The effects of this are more human than they are different due to the relationship dynamics (parent/child, spouse/spouse, etc).

I mean how can you explain to someone how their attitude towards life - or relationship has damaged their self worth, etc.?

Listen to others and how it impacted their lifes. Sometimes when we remove ourselves from the circumstance, and see it through other eyes? The 'get it' part starts to surface. I honestly don't think there is anything she could tell you that make you GET IT. It's something you must learn on your own.

Yes, you are broken. Yet, you will learn the extent of your brokenness - which hasn't surfaced yet - once you educate yourself on the human impact of your past approaches to life.

Once you hit that point? Your Contrition will prove it to her.

 

[Hferry22]

My wife has the book, "Emotionally Destructive Marriage" by Leslie Vernick. I went to the Christian bookstore and bought it as a way to "understand" what she is dealing with. I also purchased the movie Fireproof because I was told this was somewhat similar to what we are going through; man misbehaves, man changes, woman sees, etc...I was also given the Love Dare devotional to read over as well as Saving your Marriage Before it Starts. So, I have some good resources that I am looking over right now. It's overwhelming but I have four months But, these are honest changes that I want to make for a lifetime, not just for the moment which is why I believe this will be a very hard season; sanding down someone is hard work as you all know from your own experiences.

My therapy sessions will also help me to see things from her perspective while fleshing out my junk behavior.

Here is an example of what I am talking about when it comes to her feeling emotionally abused...

My son was asked to get her a small Hershey bar out of the fridge; he replied, "but I thought you were not eating after dinner so you could lose weight?" She scolded him and said that was not nice! Now, when I hear this I think my son is doing a good thing in being kind and helping his mom. I've made those comments to her as well. Explain how that would not be a nice comment...

 

[Dave-W]

Explain how that would not be a nice comment...

It was not what she wanted to hear right then.

 

[Poppyseed78]

Regarding the issue of the Hershey bar/weight loss - no woman wants any "helpful" remark from her husband about what she should or shouldn't be eating, unless it is truly a matter of urgency, like for a person with diabetes or something. I would find that kind of comment judgmental and disapproving. Taken in concert with many such comments over the years, it can hurt one's self-esteem.

I agree with Snoochface and HannahT's perspectives above and think they offered a lot of useful advice. I really do think you need to rein in how much you're trying to "prove" that you have changed. Real change is evident in actions, not in words. If you need to say it, then it is not yet evident in your behavior. The scars of emotional abuse run deep and take a long time to heal.

 

[Hferry22]

Regarding the issue of the Hershey bar/weight loss - no woman wants any "helpful" remark from her husband about what she should or shouldn't be eating, unless it is truly a matter of urgency, like for a person with diabetes or something. I would find that kind of comment judgmental and disapproving. Taken in concert with many such comments over the years, it can hurt one's self-esteem.

I agree with Snoochface and HannahT's perspectives above and think they offered a lot of useful advice. I really do think you need to rein in how much you're trying to "prove" that you have changed. Real change is evident in actions, not in words. If you need to say it, then it is not yet evident in your behavior. The scars of emotional abuse run deep and take a long time to heal.

Yeah, I guess I'm desperate to prove myself and I overdue it.

I have looked up Leslie Vernick's book and have noticed a lot of comments about how emotional abuse is grounds for divorce, according to her theology. I am concerned by this and what she is hearing in counseling. Granted you are only hearing my side of the story but emotional/verbal abuse is NOT something that came up over the years. The Hershey bar comment was an "innocent" comment made and not intended to be judgmental at all. Honestly, those are the comments that are confusing to me that have lead to the feeling of being emotionally abused. Now, she is reading a book on this and I'm nervous. Since the letter was written on April 20th, I apologized, asked for forgiveness and have sought out counsel. I'm not saint, again, but these are steps that I have needed to take. Now, she has not asked for or is seeking a divorce but the separation is certainly scary but my emotions are also raw...

 

[Poppyseed78]

Compassion is the road to healing abuse. YOU exercising compassion, not her, and not just when you feel like it, but all the time. I understand that the Hershey bar comment in and of itself is very minor and not abusive at all, but for someone who is highly sensitized and hurt, it can sting even if you didn't mean it that way. This is unfortunately something you will need to learn to deal with.

 

[Hferry22]

Compassion is the road to healing abuse. YOU exercising compassion, not her, and not just when you feel like it, but all the time. I understand that the Hershey bar comment in and of itself is very minor and not abusive at all, but for someone who is highly sensitized and hurt, it can sting even if you didn't mean it that way. This is unfortunately something you will need to learn to deal with.

Yeah, I am a wreck today. My mind is completely haywire and I'm obsessing too much right now. I had a great prayer time this morning and of course the enemy is doing all that he can to wreck that for me. This is all great wisdom and advice. Thank you!

 

[Poppyseed78]

Try to remind yourself that your wife wants to stay together. She is hopeful that things will improve. Find strength in that, and try not to obsess. Just keep yourself immersed in prayer and have patience that this season of hardship will pass for both of you.

 

[Hferry22]

Try to remind yourself that your wife wants to stay together. She is hopeful that things will improve. Find strength in that, and try not to obsess. Just keep yourself immersed in prayer and have patience that this season of hardship will pass for both of you.

I know you don't have a crystal ball but what are the "signs" that you have read that she wants this to work? I don't mean to sound like a 10 year old but I do appreciate the encouragement. The separation has thrown me for a loop...