Statues of Brave Heroes of the South

[tulc]

hmmmm.....I had no idea that Germany and the Holocaust had anything to do with statues in the south.

Perhaps you should explain that to the poster who brought it up than? Because they seemed to think there was a connection between them.
tulc(hopes that clears up civilwarbuff's confusion)

 

[iluvatar5150]

You don't just take monuments, statues, artwork down because it don't reflect the current political climate.

Good thing that's not what's happening.

The past is the past and we need to move on. Maybe I made the wrong comparison. So what? It's a statue, a piece of art, and part of or history, like it or not.

"So what"? You complain about the erasing of history and then try to bolster your case with some pretty egregious factual errors. If you're so concerned with history, perhaps you ought to study some.

This constant worrying about what happened in the past does not help our country move forward at all.

How does your constant worrying about maintaining a symbol of traitorous oppression help us move forward?

It just keeps us going around in a circle chasing our tail. Trying to erase history is some thing Islamic terrorists do, like blowing up centuries old carvings because it don't fit with their religion. Or like Chinese communists do where everyone has to support the government party line or else you are "reeducated", or killed.

Anyone that is so offended by a statue, they have to have it taken down needs to have their head examined.

Why are you so concerned with needing a statue to remain in place? Ought you not be the one having your head examined?

Most of these statues were erected as part of a propaganda campaign to lionize the confederacy, white-wash its sins, and cow blacks into remembering their "proper" place in society. The attempt to erase history was in their being installed in the first place. Removing the statues is part of an attempt to correct history.

Where does it stop? The answer is it don't stop until our country is a so called Socialist utopia of the Left. So we will probably have another Civil War if this continues-which is part of the Lefts plane too.

What the heck does this even mean? This sounds like a bunch of paranoid right-wing gobbledygook.

If white conservatives want to fight a civil war over statues lionizing dead racists, that's on you. Where the heck do your values and loyalties lie if that's the hill you want to die on?

hmmmm.....I had no idea that Germany and the Holocaust had anything to do with statues in the south.

If you're so concerned with the discussion being taken off topic with an improper comparison, perhaps you should direct your complaints to @Running2win, who first made the comparison to Nazis, rather than the folks who responded to him.

 

[Arcangl86]

Only if it violated the parameters set forth in the Constitution; secession did not necessarily equate to treason. In fact secession is not even mentioned in the Constitution.

That along should suggest that the founders did not forsee succession. There were details about how states could join the Union, but not even a mention that they could leave it. Yes I know it's an argument from silence, but sadly a lot of Constitutional interpretation has to be because it was so vague at places.

 

[Running2win]

Good thing that's not what's happening.



"So what"? You complain about the erasing of history and then try to bolster your case with some pretty egregious factual errors. If you're so concerned with history, perhaps you ought to study some.



How does your constant worrying about maintaining a symbol of traitorous oppression help us move forward?



Why are you so concerned with needing a statue to remain in place? Ought you not be the one having your head examined?

Most of these statues were erected as part of a propaganda campaign to lionize the confederacy, white-wash its sins, and cow blacks into remembering their "proper" place in society. The attempt to erase history was in their being installed in the first place. Removing the statues is part of an attempt to correct history.



What the heck does this even mean? This sounds like a bunch of paranoid right-wing gobbledygook.

If white conservatives want to fight a civil war over statues lionizing dead racists, that's on you. Where the heck do your values and loyalties lie if that's the hill you want to die on?



If you're so concerned with the discussion being taken off topic with an improper comparison, perhaps you should direct your complaints to @Running2win, who first made the comparison to Nazis, rather than the folks who responded to him.

Statues are being pulled down by left wing mobs. They are having to be guarded. It's not just confederate, it's any statue or artwork that don't fit in with the Lefts vision of America.

If a community wants a statue they should be allowed to have it. They should not be mobbed by Left wing protesters that don't even live in the county or even State coming in telling them what to do with their statues and monuments.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Statues are being pulled down by left wing mobs. They are having to be guarded. It's not just confederate, it's any statue or artwork that don't fit in with the Lefts vision of America.

If a community wants a statue they should be allowed to have it. They should not be mobbed by Left wing protesters that don't even live in the county or even State coming in telling them what to do with their statues and monuments.

What makes you think that most of these statues are being removed by people from outside the community? In many cases, it's the community members pushing, and even voting, to remove them. In some cases, state officials have sought to block those local organizers by requiring the approval of state-level commissioners.

 

[Running2win]

Except many of these statues were put up by anti-black organizations as a way of oppressing blacks.

I don't have a problem with General Lee's statue at the Gettysburg battlefield. It stands near where he rode out to Pickett's returning men, telling them "it's all my fault." It helps bring the battlefield to life. But a statue of Lee, Jackson or other Confederate leaders along city streets or in front of courthouses--in many cases in places these men never visited in the lifetime--is wrong.

That's your opinion. The community will decide in each case, and it's their choice, not ours. But it should be done without pressure from left wing mobs that don't even live there.

 

[Archivist]

hmmmm.....I had no idea that Germany and the Holocaust had anything to do with statues in the south.

Secession also has nothing to do with statues in Richmond, but you keep bring it up even though I answered your question several pages ago.

I understand the relationship between German statues and Confederate statues even if you cant figure it out, and since I posted the OP that discussion can continue.

 

[Running2win]

What makes you think that most of these statues are being removed by people from outside the community? In many cases, it's the community members pushing, and even voting, to remove them. In some cases, state officials have sought to block those local organizers by requiring the approval of state-level commissioners.

I can only go with what I see and read in the media, just like you, unless you actually live there.

 

[Archivist]

That's your opinion. The community will decide in each case, and it's their choice, not ours. But it should be done without pressure from left wing mobs that don't even live there.

No, what I said is fact, many of the statues were put up by anti-black organizations. "1911 was a big year for putting up Confederate monuments in a number of states; across the South, numerous statues were erected during the Jim Crow era. Then more were erected while the KKK flourished, during the civil rights era." Now, that isn't the case for every Confederate statue, but it was true for many of them.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I can only go with what I see and read in the media, just like you, unless you actually live there.

I live in Baltimore. A year or two ago, the city removed one confederate statue near the BMA (maybe it was more than one; I forget) and then more recently, protesters knocked down the Columbus statue in Little Italy. I'm not aware of either of those events being conducted by outsiders.

 

[Running2win]

No, what I said is fact, many of the statues were put up by anti-black organizations. "1911 was a big year for putting up Confederate monuments in a number of states; across the South, numerous statues were erected during the Jim Crow era. Then more were erected while the KKK flourished, during the civil rights era." Now, that isn't the case for every Confederate statue, but it was true for many of them.

So you like sticking your nose into everyone else's business? Whatever happened or how its done, it is now the local community that needs to wrestle with what to do, not ours.

 

[Running2win]

I live in Baltimore. A year or two ago, the city removed one confederate statue near the BMA (maybe it was more than one; I forget) and then more recently, protesters knocked down the Columbus statue in Little Italy. I'm not aware of either of those events being conducted by outsiders.

I'm in agreement with the first case. Let the community decide. Not the second. A protester does not have the right to tear down a community statue or monument.

 

[Archivist]

So you like sticking your nose into everyone else's business?

You apparently like making stuff up because I never said that. I simply pointed out that many of these statues were put up by anti-black organizations

Whatever happened or how its done, it is now the local community that needs to wrestle with what to do, not ours.

And from what I've seen that is what is happening. We have a statue of Stonewall Jackson in front of our state capitol. I've written my representative and senator asking that it be removed as have many other West Virginians. I live here, that is my right. I haven't complained about statues in other states. That is their business. Contrary to your earlier rude comment, I'm not sticking my nose into anyone else's business.

 

[Running2win]

You apparently like making stuff up because I never said that. I simply pointed out that many of these statues were put up by anti-black organizations



And from what I've seen that is what is happening. We have a statue of Stonewall Jackson in front of our state capitol. I've written my representative and senator asking that it be removed as have many other West Virginians. I live here, that is my right. I haven't complained about statues in other states. That is their business. Contrary to your earlier rude comment, I'm not sticking my nose into anyone else's business.

Sorry for that jab, I did not realize it was your local situation.

 

[Archivist]

Sorry for that jab, I did not realize it was your local situation.

Understood.. Thank you.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Secession also has nothing to do with statues in Richmond,

Of course it does; without secession those statues would likely not even be there and we would not be having this 'conversation'.

I understand the relationship between German statues and Confederate statues

Then I laud you for your wonderful imagination....

 

[Archivist]

Of course it does; without secession those statues would likely not even be there and we would not be having this 'conversation'.

That's a stretch. Secession is irrelevant to the conversation. They could have been statues of men from the revolution who just happened to be slaveholders.

Then I laud you for your wonderful imagination....

Much better than your lack of thought.

 

[civilwarbuff]

That's a stretch. Secession is irrelevant to the conversation. They could have been statues of men from the revolution who just happened to be slaveholders.

Well, I was never one for alternative history........

 

[Under One King]

Do you know how to read?

Much better than your lack of thought.

Says the man who claimed he didn't want to resort to this kind of behavior in this thread.

 

[Under One King]

I know I'll get backlash for this. But the civil war was not about slavery.
And by the way @Archivist, Lincoln admitted he manipulated things so the South fired the first shot. Naturally, that made them the "bad guys" and it made the north the "good guys."