Statues of Brave Heroes of the South

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civilwarbuff

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You don’t need to violate the whole Constitution. One section is sufficient.
I was talking about where secession was mentioned in the Constitution and you were saying it was mentioned where exactly?
 
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Sistrin

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DamianWarS

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The logic of your statement is flawed, as it does not account for the history of the time. The American Civil War occurred during a time in American history when the vast majority of people were born, lived their entire lives, and died all within an average twenty mile radius of their birth place. Consequently their primary loyalties lay with the State in which they lived.

People spoke of themselves as Georgians, or Maine-Men, or Buckeyes as opposed to Americans. It wasn't until following the Civil War Americans as a people began to refer to themselves as such.
This type of thinking is embedded in the name "United States...." People first take a state identiy before they take a "...of America" identiy. This has changed a lot but tribalism is still quite strong in parts of the US.
 
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Archivist

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You actually thought this article was genuine?
Do you know how to read? I said way back in post 14 that I posted it because I thought it was funny. When I posted the link I thought it was obvious that it was posted to bring some levity to the conversation, but some people don't seem to get that.
 
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th1bill

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The entire conversation here and everywhere is the mark of the lack of Genuine Education. I only made it through the Eighth Grade but I was gifted by YHWH with a hungering for knowledge and Military Bases and cities around the world have Libraries and desire that everybody knows every page of every book there-in.

Of course, there remains personal prejudice! I run into that everywhere I have gone and this string is no better. If we ever manage to wrap our heads around the WWJD and all that the Holy Scriptures, written by Yashuah ha'Mashiah, the man most demand His Name is Jesus. That will send none to Hell but it is His Title in Greek and His Name was well set when the Hebrews spoke Paleo Hebrew. He is named Yashuah ha'Mashiah or Yashuah, Our Savior.

The unlearned white and the unlearned black will never make their world any better by spawning hate and violence. They are however leading this world into the Thousand Year Reign of the Master that will rule with a Rod of Iron.
 
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civilwarbuff

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Hey Bill, nice to see you......
They are however leading this world into the Thousand Year Reign of the Master that will rule with a Rod of Iron.
May it be sooner rather than later.......
 
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dqhall

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The logic of your statement is flawed, as it does not account for the history of the time. The American Civil War occurred during a time in American history when the vast majority of people were born, lived their entire lives, and died all within an average twenty mile radius of their birth place. Consequently their primary loyalties lay with the State in which they lived.

People spoke of themselves as Georgians, or Maine-Men, or Buckeyes as opposed to Americans. It wasn't until following the Civil War Americans as a people began to refer to themselves as such.
People were migrating to America from Europe. The railroad system was rapidly expanding. Settlers were pushing west in wagon trains. Gold was discovered above Sacremento, CA in 1848 and a million people went to a California. Steamship traffic increased economic production along America’s rivers.

There was no excuse for that war. Jesus did not keep slaves. He would not have wanted to be treated the way they treated slaves.
 
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tulc

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(snip) The ovens are still standing, war monuments and such. That is what I was talking about... By keeping Southern statues, it is a teaching tool to say that was how it was then but now look how far we have come in the advancement of civil rights. That's how I see the debate.
hmmm....you don't see a difference between this:
a-sobering-reminder-the-cremetorium-at-auschwitz-1-concentration-camp-B50WW6.jpg

and this?
lee_dallas.jpg

because one of them seems to say "Never again!" and the other one seems to say "Look how cool we were when we could own slaves!".
tulc(just thought that should be pointed out)
 
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tulc

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Geez, this was a pretty good thread until someone decided to bring Nazism into it......which, BTW, has absolutely nothing to do with the thread.
Actually, the question does relate to the subject of the statues because the question was asked "Doesn't Germany have things like this about the Holocaust?" I just pointing out the difference between the two types of the memorials.
tulc(hopes civilwarbuff's day improves after this)
 
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civilwarbuff

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Actually, the question does relate to the subject of the statues because the question was asked "Doesn't Germany have things like this about the Holocaust?" I just pointing out the difference between the two types of the memorials. :wave:
tulc(hopes civilwarbuff's day improves after this) :clap:
Which neither of which have anything to do with this thread.....
 
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tulc

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Which neither of which have anything to do with this thread.....
hmmm...the thread is named:
Statues of Brave Heroes of the South
and we were discussing the statues commemorating people who fought for the south during the civil war...so...I'm not really seeing how this is off the subject of this thread.
tulc(just thought that should be pointed out)
 
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The Liturgist

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Flawed logic? If you cannot be polite and avoid name calling please get out of this thread. People have become rude in far to many threads recently; I don't want that happening here.

Trump apparently wants to put up a statue of Arnold at the White House: Trump demands statue of Benedict Arnold be built on White House lawn. To my knowledge the only current US statue that depicts him is a statue of his boot.

I feel obliged to point out that stating an argument is illogical or objecting to someone making use of flawed logic is not, from the perspective of classical rhetoric, an example of argumentum ad hominem and should not be received as an insult, as it is a critique of the argument, or more precisely, the logical substrate of aforesaid argument, and not the person making that argument. I myself on occasion do inadvertently advance unsound arguments owing to logical fallacies or other instances of faulty reasoning on my part, and I have learned to greatly value it when someone admonishes me as to these errors, as it has saved me from making a number of bad decisions over the years, and also, even more frequently, it has spared me from grave embarassment.
 
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Running2win

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hmmm....you don't see a difference between this:
a-sobering-reminder-the-cremetorium-at-auschwitz-1-concentration-camp-B50WW6.jpg

and this?
lee_dallas.jpg

because one of them seems to say "Never again!" and the other one seems to say "Look how cool we were when we could own slaves!". :sigh:
tulc(just thought that should be pointed out)

You have to admit that is a cool statue. :oldthumbsup:
 
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iluvatar5150

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You have to understand how WV came into being. After Virginia succeeded there was a loyal government of Virginia in Wheeling. That government gave WV the power to succeed.

Sorry to be pedantic, but it's "secede," not "succeed".

Geez, this was a pretty good thread until someone decided to bring Nazism into it......which, BTW, has absolutely nothing to do with the thread.

The person who brought Nazism into the thread did so in a misguided and factually errant attempt to defend the confederate statues, pretending as if they're some sort of dark memorial warning us against allowing Confederate atrocities to happen again.
 
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Running2win

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Sorry to be pedantic, but it's "secede," not "succeed".
.


The person who brought Nazism into the thread did so in a misguided and factually errant attempt to defend the confederate statues, pretending as if they're some sort of dark memorial warning us against allowing Confederate atrocities to happen again.

You don't just take monuments, statues, artwork down because it don't reflect the current political climate. The past is the past and we need to move on. Maybe I made the wrong comparison. So what? It's a statue, a piece of art, and part of or history, like it or not.

This constant worrying about what happened in the past does not help our country move forward at all. It just keeps us going around in a circle chasing our tail. Trying to erase history is some thing Islamic terrorists do, like blowing up centuries old carvings because it don't fit with their religion. Or like Chinese communists do where everyone has to support the government party line or else you are "reeducated", or killed.

Anyone that is so offended by a statue, they have to have it taken down needs to have their head examined. Where does it stop? The answer is it don't stop until our country is a so called Socialist utopia of the Left. So we will probably have another Civil War if this continues-which is part of the Lefts plane too.
 
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Sorry to be pedantic, but it's "secede," not "succeed".

You are correct--thank you. Typing faster then I was thinking.

The person who brought Nazism into the thread did so in a misguided and factually errant attempt to defend the confederate statues, pretending as if they're some sort of dark memorial warning us against allowing Confederate atrocities to happen again.

Yes. And you will not find statues of Hitler, von Ribbentrop, Goebbels, Himmler or any of the other Nazi trash on display in Germany.
 
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You don't just take monuments, statues, artwork down because it don't reflect the current political climate. The past is the past and we need to move on. Maybe I made the wrong comparison. So what? It's a statue, a piece of art, and part of or history, like it or not.

This constant worrying about what happened in the past does not help our country move forward at all. It just keeps us going around in a circle chasing our tail. Trying to erase history is some thing Islamic terrorists do, like blowing up centuries old carvings because it don't fit with their religion. Or like Chinese communists do where everyone has to support the government party line or else you are "reeducated", or killed.

Anyone that is so offended by a statue, they have to have it taken down needs to have their head examined. Where does it stop? The answer is it don't stop until our country is a so called Socialist utopia of the Left. So we will probably have another Civil War if this continues-which is part of the Lefts plane too.

Except many of these statues were put up by anti-black organizations as a way of oppressing blacks.

I don't have a problem with General Lee's statue at the Gettysburg battlefield. It stands near where he rode out to Pickett's returning men, telling them "it's all my fault." It helps bring the battlefield to life. But a statue of Lee, Jackson or other Confederate leaders along city streets or in front of courthouses--in many cases in places these men never visited in the lifetime--is wrong.
 
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civilwarbuff

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and we were discussing the statues commemorating people who fought for the south during the civil war...so...I'm not really seeing how this is off the subject of this thread. :sorry:
tulc(just thought that should be pointed out)
hmmmm.....I had no idea that Germany and the Holocaust had anything to do with statues in the south.
 
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