Statistically guns are not the problem

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Part of me always wondered if we are not obligated to protect our families.

See then , again, Ephesians 5, and the rest of Scripture regarding what God says to do. It is much much different than what most groups say to do, even churches.
Prayerfully and hopefully in Jesus, the Father will reveal His Purpose, His Plan, and His Meaning to you as you seek Him daily with all of your life in His hands.

 

[HARK!]

Exactly. I had someone tell me that we dont need guns to protect us, because thats what the police are for. As if we can always call the cops in every situation, and as if they would even get there in time to save us.

Years ago I was the leader of an organized group of 60 community members, who worked with police to stop crime, in a crime ridden city. The gang members knew me well. One night there was a gang war and shots were being fired. Some of the gang members came beating on my door asking me for help. I told them to get down low in the dark of my yard; that they were safe there. I called 911 repeatedly. So did my neighbors. Shots and screaming echoed throughout the neighborhood. I identified myself to the 911 dispatcher; and told them that they need to get over here immediately. The police knew who I was. they knew me well. I was having meetings with them regularly. It took well over an hour before they responded. When they did; multiple cruisers showed up at once.

The next morning I went to work. I told the story. Two of my coworkers had parents who were LEOs. The one coworker started kindly laughing at me. He said listen, these cops have families. They just want to do their jobs and go home at night. They don't want to go driving into a gang war. They'll wait until it's over; clean up the mess; and try to track the shooters down later; when they can catch them alone, off guard.

Made sense to me.

I went and talked to the Brass about the response time. The President of the community association wrote a letter to call a public meeting to address our concerns. The Brass got mad at me; and asked me to step outside. We had a private conversation out there. One asked me, what I was trying to do here. I told him that I was trying to solve the problem. I said listen I was in danger. My community was in danger. I'm sticking my neck out; and you guys weren't here to help. I didn't want to take these guys in my house. He said, No these guys are bad news. I said that I know who they are. I said that I didn't want to bring my gun outside to defend them, because I had just called 911, saying that there was shooting. I didn't want the police to make a mistake in identity, and shoot me. He said no, you definitely don't want to do that; that he didn't know if his officers would shoot me; but they would definitely arrest me. I said arrest me?

At this point I should mention that this was a liberal city, in a liberal state.

Arrest me for what? He said you can't have a gun outside in this city. I asked, "I can't have a gun, in my own yard, to protect innocent life." He said no, you'll go to jail and be prosecuted.

The liberal agenda forces people to live in fear. They pay more, and more taxes, to hire more, and more, police; for a problem that never gets solved.

Of course if you drop a gum wrapper, they're right there on it!

I gave up on that mess. If they want to live that way; they can have it. I decided to move somewhere where I can be with my own kind.

God Bless Texas!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

How?

duckduckgo search william bates. (the main search engine on the internet is very censored(but still works sometimes) ) There's also about a dozen or more other eye professionals who published in the last hundred years, perhaps many more but at least that many.... it may still be readily available....

 

[Need answers]

It is difficult for anyone, family or law enforcement, to live as Jesus says. Impossible actually - Jesus told His disciples they could not be saved if they trusted in themselves to save themselves. ONLY if they trusted the heavenly Father for their salvation in this life, and in the life to come, could anyone be saved. (Jesus said (paraphrased but true to meaning in perfect harmony with all of God's Word and Plan and Purpose) .

That doesn't answer the question though.

 

[Need answers]

Years ago I was the leader of an organized group of 60 community members, who worked with police to stop crime, in a crime ridden city. The gang members knew me well. One night there was a gang war and shots were being fired. Some of the gang members came beating on my door asking me for help. I told them to get down low in the dark of my yard; that they were safe there. I called 911 repeatedly. So did my neighbors. Shots and screaming echoed throughout the neighborhood. I identified myself to the 911 dispatcher; and told them that they need to get over here immediately. The police knew who I was. they knew me well. I was having meetings with them regularly. It took well over an hour before they responded. When they did; multiple cruisers showed up at once.

The next morning I went to work. I told the story. Two of my coworkers had parents who were LEOs. The one coworker started kindly laughing at me. He said listen, these cops have families. They just want to do their jobs and go home at night. They don't want to go driving into a gang war. They'll wait until it's over; clean up the mess; and try to track the shooters down later; when they can catch them alone, off guard.

Made sense to me.

I went and talked to the Brass about the response time. The President of the community association wrote a letter to call a public meeting to address our concerns. The Brass got mad at me; and asked me to step outside. We had a private conversation out there. One asked me, what I was trying to do here. I told him that I was trying to solve the problem. I said listen I was in danger. My community was in danger. I'm sticking my neck out; and you guys weren't here to help. I didn't want to take these guys in my house. He said, No these guys are bad news. I said that I know who they are. I said that I didn't want to bring my gun outside to defend them, because I had just called 911, saying that there was shooting. I didn't want the police to make a mistake in identity, and shoot me. He said no, you definitely don't want to do that; that he didn't know if his officers would shoot me; but they would definitely arrest me. I said arrest me?

At this point I should mention that this was a liberal city, in a liberal state.

Arrest me for what? He said you can't have a gun outside in this city. I asked, "I can't have a gun, in my own yard, to protect innocent life." He said no, you'll go to jail and be prosecuted.

The liberal agenda forces people to live in fear. They pay more, and more taxes, to hire more, and more, police; for a problem that never gets solved.

Of course if you drop a gum wrapper, they're right there on it!

I gave up on that mess. If they want to live that way; they can have it. I decided to move somewhere where I can be with my own kind.

God Bless Texas!

No one really cares to address the gang problem. Otherwise we might be able to change the culture that produces gangs. People need to stand up and not be silent. They cant shut up when it comes to taking the peoples gun rights away. If only they stood up against gangs as much as they do guns.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

That doesn't answer the question though.

Apparently you saw mostly, a lot of false or apparently false believers, right ?
Then decided that you would give up trying to be so faithful yourself to what you knew at one time was true, apparently, since all those other people were not being faithful, in your observing them (and many others observed that also, btw)....
Who is faithful; true; trustworthy ? WHo can anyone count on every day, all the time, in truth?

Only Jesus / God.

Can we/ anyone save ourselves ? no... except as written when His Word says" save yourselves from this wicked generation" .... i.e. do not go along with wickedness, ever.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No one really cares to address the gang problem. Otherwise we might be able to change the culture that produces gangs. People need to stand up and not be silent. They cant shut up when it comes to taking the peoples gun rights away. If only they stood up against gangs as much as they do guns.

Keith Green and David Wilkerson did much by faith in God's Plan and Purpose to save and heal gang members (and other people/ drug addicts, pastors, priests, lawyers, business men, etc etc etc) ....

As a result, possibly, (some think), they were assassinated. (the one who assassinated Keith later confessed, it might still be findable on the web - I don't know) ....

Whenever anyone stands up for the truth, they will be persecuted for doing so. This is in God's Word, and is true, and happens every day also, throughout history.

 

[Need answers]

Keith Green and David Wilkerson did much by faith in God's Plan and Purpose to save and heal gang members (and other people/ drug addicts, pastors, priests, lawyers, business men, etc etc etc) ....

As a result, possibly, (some think), they were assassinated. (the one who assassinated Keith later confessed, it might still be findable on the web - I don't know) ....

Whenever anyone stands up for the truth, they will be persecuted for doing so. This is in God's Word, and is true, and happens every day also, throughout history.

You can stand against the culture without going into gang infested neighborhoods and getting assassinated.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You can stand against the culture without going into gang infested neighborhoods and getting assassinated.

IF They were assassinated, it was by official church or government agents. The gangs are much less trouble! They were with the gangs daily !

God's Ways are so much totally different than man's ways or religion.

 

[HARK!]

It is difficult for anyone, family or law enforcement, to live as Jesus says. Impossible actually - Jesus told His disciples they could not be saved if they trusted in themselves to save themselves. ONLY if they trusted the heavenly Father for their salvation in this life, and in the life to come, could anyone be saved. (Jesus said (paraphrased but true to meaning in perfect harmony with all of God's Word and Plan and Purpose) .

Yahshua told his disciples to sell their clothes, if needed, to buy swords. To my understanding this was against Roman law. Why do you suppose he did that?

I suppose that if you don't protect yourself from unlawful murder; it's not unlike suicide. I believe that YHWH calls us to take reasonable precautions to defend our safety.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yahshua told his disciples to sell their clothes, if needed, to buy swords. To my understanding this was against Roman law. Why do you suppose he did that?

I suppose that if you don't protect yourself from unlawful murder; it's not unlike suicide. I believe that YHWH calls us to take reasonable precautions to defend our safety.

It looks like by 'supposing' , you are 'assuming' things that God's Word is opposed to.
Best not to do that.

What did Jesus say the one and only time one of His disciples used a sword to hurt someone, and what did Jesus do about it?

The two swords was to fulfill prophecy, not at all for self defence nor to harm anyone. (this is clearly explained in other places)

 

[HARK!]

What did Jesus say the one and only time one of His disciples used a sword to hurt someone, and what did Jesus do about it?

Peter attacked authority. There is a difference between attacking authority, and defending yourself against mob violence. Had the violent mob reached them first; Yahshua might not have been delivered to the authorities.

That said, Yahshua wasn't completely submissive to authority: or he wouldn't have been executed to begin with. I don't completely understand why YHWH chose this double standard to have his will done; but Yahshua followed his father's plan in faith.

Bottom line is that Peter wouldn't have used that sword; if Yahshua hadn't told him to take it up.

 

[HARK!]

The two swords was to fulfill prophecy,

What prophecy; and if this prophecy had no physical purpose whatsoever ( I doubt that); what do you suppose it symbolically represented?

 

[HARK!]

It looks like by 'supposing' , you are 'assuming' things that God's Word is opposed to.

Your suppositions are as good as mine. When we don't have all of the answers, logical people make suppositions. They test them, which often leads to greater understanding. I try to avoid assumptions.

 

[GaveMeJoy]

Murderers in England and Japan historically prefer knives.

The UK is trying to resolve this problem.

Woman, 28, told to prove age to buy pizza-cutter

They prefer knives because they don’t have access to guns. And the murder rates are very low in these countries compared to US I think but I don’t know that for sure

 

[Kalevalatar]

Finland has far more armed households than the United States, where the arsenal of guns is in the hands of the few while a vast majority of households are gun-free whereas in Finland, closer to half of households keep gun/s. Yet, firearm-related death rate per 100,000 population are considerably higher in the United States:

Finland: 3.2
US: 12.2

For homicide:
Finland: 0.3
US: 4.5

For suicide:
Finland: 2.9
US: 7.3

And last but not least, unintentional gun deaths:
Finland:0.02
US: 0.2

Fact is, no child, no toddler, in Finland "accidentally" gets access to unlocked and loaded gun to shoot, injury or kill themselves, their friends, their parent, pet or anyone alive. No child in Finland is allowed to have access to guns and no gun in Finland is allowed to lay around free for unauthorized access, including criminals to steal and use in crimes.

US leads the world in child gun deaths

That is the difference between responsible gun ownership and irresponsible gun ownership.

Firearm injuries are the leading cause of death for American kids. The leading cause of death.

Make no mistake. These are not "accidental" deaths or "unfortunate incidents." These are unnecessary and perfectly preventable, intentionally inflicted by irresponsible adults who seem to love their guns more than they love their children.

You say that "statistically guns are not the problem." I say that you have no idea, because you do not know better. Just think how much better and safer place the United States would and could be, if only the American gunowners committed to a Finnish-style responsible gun ownership mentality.

 

[Need answers]

Finland has far more armed households than the United States, where the arsenal of guns is in the hands of the few while a vast majority of households are gun-free whereas in Finland, closer to half of households keep gun/s. Yet, firearm-related death rate per 100,000 population are considerably higher in the United States:

Finland: 3.2
US: 12.2

For homicide:
Finland: 0.3
US: 4.5

For suicide:
Finland: 2.9
US: 7.3

And last but not least, unintentional gun deaths:
Finland:0.02
US: 0.2

Fact is, no child, no toddler, in Finland "accidentally" gets access to unlocked and loaded gun to shoot, injury or kill themselves, their friends, their parent, pet or anyone alive. No child in Finland is allowed to have access to guns and no gun in Finland is allowed to lay around free for unauthorized access, including criminals to steal and use in crimes.

US leads the world in child gun deaths

That is the difference between responsible gun ownership and irresponsible gun ownership.

Firearm injuries are the leading cause of death for American kids. The leading cause of death.

Make no mistake. These are not "accidental" deaths or "unfortunate incidents." These are unnecessary and perfectly preventable, intentionally inflicted by irresponsible adults who seem to love their guns more than they love their children.

You say that "statistically guns are not the problem." I say that you have no idea, because you do not know better. Just think how much better and safer place the United States would and could be, if only the American gunowners committed to a Finnish-style responsible gun ownership mentality.

Your stats are wrong, car accidents are the leading cause of death for children in the US, not firearms. I wont bother to look at the rest of your stats.

 

[ZNP]

More have been shot by handguns. But they wont ban them. Why is that?

What about loonies in cars? Weve had loonies try to kill crowds of people using their cars. Will you ban cars too?

I think we can learn a lot from cars. Back in the 70s when we were fighting in Vietnam I remember headlines in the NYT that more people were killed on the highway than in the war. Since then cars have become much safer. We buy cars based on their safety rating. Seat belts became much, much better (used to be no one wore them). Laws were passed making seatbelts mandatory to wear. Air bags were invented. Cars were put through crash tests with dummies to determine a safety rating.

Why? Because the insurance companies realized this would save them money. The insurance companies became the 500 lb gorilla lobbying for safer cars.

Right now we have the NRA lobbying for gun rights without any powerful lobbyists lobbying for safer guns.

I would suggest the following law modeled after the mandatory liability insurance for cars. I would say that every gun owner needs to have mandatory liability insurance on their gun. So in the event that their mentally unstable son shoots up an elementary school (what happened in Conn.) the insurance company would need to pay compensation to everyone involved.

Why would this help?

1. We have people buying guns with cash, the ID for that gun is kept on paper making it next to impossible for the government to rapidly trace that gun in the event of a crime. However, if every gun owner is required to have insurance beginning with the gun dealer, then the records for the gun could be digitized, the records would not be held by the government but they could be subpoenaed. In the event of a crime the police / FBI sends the information about the bullet and shell casing to the insurance companies, they run the search and they tell the authorities who is insuring that gun.
2. This would close the loophole of people buying up 24 guns as a "collector" and then selling them for cash on the street. Because this "collector" would have to insure each gun. As a result we would immediately discover who these people are when crimes are committed. Second, to protect themselves they would have to have written sales receipts to show the cops which would then lead to the perps.
3. You would now have a lobbyist that would make the NRA look like a puny mouse. This lobbyist would get the attention of all lawmakers to create a system that is safer.

 

[Need answers]

I think we can learn a lot from cars. Back in the 70s when we were fighting in Vietnam I remember headlines in the NYT that more people were killed on the highway than in the war. Since then cars have become much safer. We buy cars based on their safety rating. Seat belts became much, much better (used to be no one wore them). Laws were passed making seatbelts mandatory to wear. Air bags were invented. Cars were put through crash tests with dummies to determine a safety rating.

Why? Because the insurance companies realized this would save them money. The insurance companies became the 500 lb gorilla lobbying for safer cars.

Right now we have the NRA lobbying for gun rights without any powerful lobbyists lobbying for safer guns.

I would suggest the following law modeled after the mandatory liability insurance for cars. I would say that every gun owner needs to have mandatory liability insurance on their gun. So in the event that their mentally unstable son shoots up an elementary school (what happened in Conn.) the insurance company would need to pay compensation to everyone involved.

Why would this help?

1. We have people buying guns with cash, the ID for that gun is kept on paper making it next to impossible for the government to rapidly trace that gun in the event of a crime. However, if every gun owner is required to have insurance beginning with the gun dealer, then the records for the gun could be digitized, the records would not be held by the government but they could be subpoenaed. In the event of a crime the police / FBI sends the information about the bullet and shell casing to the insurance companies, they run the search and they tell the authorities who is insuring that gun.
2. This would close the loophole of people buying up 24 guns as a "collector" and then selling them for cash on the street. Because this "collector" would have to insure each gun. As a result we would immediately discover who these people are when crimes are committed. Second, to protect themselves they would have to have written sales receipts to show the cops which would then lead to the perps.
3. You would now have a lobbyist that would make the NRA look like a puny mouse. This lobbyist would get the attention of all lawmakers to create a system that is safer.

Not sure why being a collector is relevant. Anyone can get a gun dealer license and buy and sell those same guns. They don't need to be a collector.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Bottom line is that Peter wouldn't have used that sword; if Yahshua hadn't told him to take it up.

This is totally missing the point of that episode.