Star Wars

[Charlie7399]

I was probably the ONLY dude in North America who went to see "The Avengers" and came out of the theater thoroughly UNDERWHELMED asking, "why are people getting a tingle in their leg over this banality?"

Someone stop this madman, for goodness' sake!
Eh, seriously now, I'm fine with agreeing to disagree. Whenever anyone tries to tell me that Episode III is a good movie, though, I'll make Vader's words my own: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

 

[Charlie7399]

Well, that is your perception that he didn't even try. He obviously did. Where is your evidence that there is no coherence and that he didn't even try? Are you confusing your disatisfaction with his laziness?

Well, the fact that there isn't even coherence in simple facts should give you a hint. I'm not interested in debating over this, though. You can see plenty of his lazyness just by looking at some "making of" footage.

 

[topcare]

Come on, Top---pick one....

You have just seen
or
You saw

But you can't say I just seen!

Perfect tenses, my friend!

I done seen its

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I'm not wanting to debate, just hear an example or two. What "simple facts" are we talking about so we can be clear here? If we're going to rip the guy up, we should at least see the 'facts' or what he's lacking or muffing-up? Lucas has never been accused of laziness by anyone credible I've heard. There are plenty of things I don't like about Lucas, but I've never seen him as lazy. His "retirement" from Star Wars is his own admission that he can no longer live and breathe SW as it was wearing him down and exhausting him to no end. The guy is a work horse.

Well, the fact that there isn't even coherence in simple facts should give you a hint. I'm not interested in debating over this, though. You can see plenty of his lazyness just by looking at some "making of" footage.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I used tuh could see it, too!

I done seen its

 

[Charlie7399]

I'm not wanting to debate, just hear an example or two. What "simple facts" are we talking about so we can be clear here? If we're going to rip the guy up, we should at least see the 'facts' or what he's lacking or muffing-up? Lucas has never been accused of laziness by anyone credible I've heard. There are plenty of things I don't like about Lucas, but I've never seen him as lazy. His "retirement" from Star Wars is his own admission that he can no longer live and breathe SW as it was wearing him down and exhausting him to no end. The guy is a work horse.

I mean, do you really think it would take that much effort to make it possible for Leia to remember her real mother? Or to use the very small amount of stuff Obi-Wan said about Anakin and not make him sound like either a liar or a crazy old man? It's just some little details, and that's my point. They could have been dealt with very easily. I do believe that Lucas got lazy when making the prequels, but it's half past three in the morning and I really don't want to waste my time talking about this

Anyway, I respect your opinions, and even though I still think you're from Mars or something I apologise if I sounded a bit harsh in my comments. I really need to go to bed!

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

How would Lucas make Leia remember her real mother? Leia was a baby? The baby would have to talk or something? I think Lucas's mistake was making Leia make that statement in Episode VI, not the prequels. It wasn't well-thought-through to begin with. I'm not sure what you mean about Obi-Wan and Anakin.

I am from Mars, and you're from Endor. We all have origin stories LOL.

I mean, do you really think it would take that much effort to make it possible for Leia to remember her real mother? Or to use the very small amount of stuff Obi-Wan said about Anakin and not make him sound like either a liar or a crazy old man? It's just some little details, and that's my point. They could have been dealt with very easily. I do believe that Lucas got lazy when making the prequels, but it's half past three in the morning and I really don't want to waste my time talking about this

Anyway, I respect your opinions, and even though I still think you're from Mars or something I apologise if I sounded a bit harsh in my comments. I really need to go to bed!

 

[Charlie7399]

How would Lucas make Leia remember her real mother? Leia was a baby? The baby would have to talk or something? I think Lucas's mistake was making Leia make that statement in Episode VI, not the prequels. It wasn't well-thought-through to begin with. I'm not sure what you mean about Obi-Wan and Anakin.

Alright, this is my last post here today, I really need to go to bed.

About Leia, just not killing Padme right off the bat would work. Perhaps it was a mistake to put that in Episode VI, but that doesn't excuse throwing continuity in the trash. Since he made the mess, it's only natural that he should come up with the solution.

Almost everything Obi-Wan said is ignored. He said Yoda had trained him, but in the prequels there's Qui-Gon. He said he decided to train Anakin because of how strong he was in the Force, but in the prequels he is reluctant until Qui-Gon's death. He didn't remember R2-D2, the droid that saved his life countless times. He said that Owen didn't want Luke to follow him on a "damn fool idealistic crusade" like Anakin did, but that doesn't fit with what happened in the prequels at all.

I am from Mars, and you're from Endor. We all have origin stories LOL.

Fair enough, but I still can't get over how odd your taste in movies is.

 

[Charlie7399]

And I forgot the biggest continuity error of them all: Obi-Wan said Anakin was "noble" and "a good friend". All we got in the prequels was a whiny psychopath.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

So how was Padme supposed to die? Old age? Attacked on a frigate? How would her twin children get to Tattooine and Alderan respectively? Was she supposed to be doing what when she died and they got separated?

You're wrong about Yoda. He DID train Obi Wan. If you paid attention to Attack of the Clones, you see Yoda training ALL of the younglings!! Remember how he had a huge pack of boys and girls, little, training them when Obi Wan needs to find the planet Kamino? Yoda has the kids help out. This is the way the Jedi work. They collectively train under a grand master, then at a certain age go to a specific master and become their apprentice. So Obi Wan was right! Continuity? FINE.

Obi Wan said he decided to train Anakin because of how powerful he was in the Force. Well, to an extent he's right. Qui Gon kept talking up how Anakin was the "chosen one" who would "bring balance to the Force." He kept talking up how Anakin had sky high "midi chlorion" levels. In other words, he was heavy on Force power, and he told that to Obi Wan. Obi Wan fought to have Anakin made his apprentice and seems to have taken to the role. Obi Wan took him on as an obligation to Qui Gon who saw his power of the Force, so Obi Wan saw it as well.

Obi Wan, in a New Hope, says "I don't seem to remember owning a droid." Point of fact--he's correct. He never owned R2D2. He never said he didn't know who R2 was.

Uncle Owen---well, he met Anakin briefly when he visited looking for his mother. Then he went off and was not only into trying to become a Jedi, but he fought in the Clone Wars. Tattooine is an outer rim planet, neutral, and stayed out of the Clone Wars. Uncle Owen was given Anakin's son, presumably told who dad was, and Uncle Owen remembers a dad who went off on a mission to find his mother, killed a ton of Sand People in a crusade to avenge, joined the Jedi order, and left fighting the Clone Wars and never came back. Either that OR he knew Anakin went off to fight the Clone Wars AND turned into Vader on a crusade to conquer the galaxy for the Empire and bring order. Crusade could be Clone Wars, Jedi, sand people conquest, or Imperial fanaticism and switching to the Dark Side. Take your pick. Again---continuity fine.

Alright, this is my last post here today, I really need to go to bed.

About Leia, just not killing Padme right off the bat would work. Perhaps it was a mistake to put that in Episode VI, but that doesn't excuse throwing continuity in the trash. Since he made the mess, it's only natural that he should come up with the solution.

Almost everything Obi-Wan said is ignored. He said Yoda had trained him, but in the prequels there's Qui-Gon. He said he decided to train Anakin because of how strong he was in the Force, but in the prequels he is reluctant until Qui-Gon's death. He didn't remember R2-D2, the droid that saved his life countless times. He said that Owen didn't want Luke to follow him on a "damn fool idealistic crusade" like Anakin did, but that doesn't fit with what happened in the prequels at all.



Fair enough, but I still can't get over how odd your taste in movies is.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

In Episode III we are told Anakin has saved Obi Wan's life over and over again. He is impetuous and impatient, can be downright rude and immature at times, but does that take away his nobility? He enters a pod race just to help a stranger (Qui Gon), destroys the Trade Federation's battle ship, saves Padme's life, helps rescue Obi Wan (tries), fights in the Clone Wars, etc. From those aspects, he was noble and a good friend. But we all know the other failings and awful outcomes....

And I forgot the biggest continuity error of them all: Obi-Wan said Anakin was "noble" and "a good friend". All we got in the prequels was a whiny psychopath.

 

[S.ilvio]

We can finally lay the prequels to rest, never to be risen again, with a bit of luck.

Star Wars is back with TFA.

Lots of questions remain unanswered. Like how there is no such thing as guided missiles in a world that has Lightspeed technology.

But I loved in...

 

[ArmyMatt]

But I think you're missing the point of REDEMPTION. The whole series is about redemption. Look at St. Constantine. We all love him for the Edict of Milan and the pandering to the Church and making Rome so friendly to Christianity. The dude did some awful things! He butchered tons of people and even boiled and killed family members. But on his death bed he repented and was baptized and chrismated. He was redeemed in Christ and the Church declared him a saint. If you can see a guy with tons of demons and dark deeds can be redeemed there, why not with Anakin? The "force ghost" thing seems pretty no-brainer to me.

I am fine with the redemption thing, but that doesn't make it a good movie. Batman and Robin could be seen as redemption with Mr Freeze showing his mercy at the end, but that movie is still atrocious.

You're also doing something a tad unfair. You're expected every single small detail to be 1000000% covered with a flawless explanation after starting with Episode IV in 1977 and doing prequels in the 2000's. Come on, man. A touch picky there. I'm a fussy dude, but you're making me look laid-back hippyish!

with the amount of time Lucas has messed with the original Trilogy, I don't think that is being picky at all. just more evidence of Lucas lack of being able to direct or write. and if Anakin's redemption is the focus of the story, that would be what I would iron out the most details with and be the most fussy. AND he wrote episodes I, II, and III when he wrote the others, so it's not like there was 20ish years of nothing and then he started writing again.

 

[gzt]

No, it was 20 years of nothing and then he started writing again. He barely had the script done in time for filming.

 

[ArmyMatt]

hmmm, I thought on an interview with Leonard Maltin he stated he had the full saga written, but only had time to finalize IV, V, and VI. maybe he just had the concepts down for I, II, and III? my bad if I was in error.

 

[gzt]

Vader being Luke's father was a late idea and not thought of until after they were sure they were doing a sequel. He might have outlined and figured out the ideas for I, II, and III once V got written, but that's a far cry from actually writing them. He might have said that in an interview, to be sure, but documentary evidence is against his assertion.

 

[Charlie7399]

So how was Padme supposed to die? Old age? Attacked on a frigate? How would her twin children get to Tattooine and Alderan respectively? Was she supposed to be doing what when she died and they got separated?

You're wrong about Yoda. He DID train Obi Wan. If you paid attention to Attack of the Clones, you see Yoda training ALL of the younglings!! Remember how he had a huge pack of boys and girls, little, training them when Obi Wan needs to find the planet Kamino? Yoda has the kids help out. This is the way the Jedi work. They collectively train under a grand master, then at a certain age go to a specific master and become their apprentice. So Obi Wan was right! Continuity? FINE.

Obi Wan said he decided to train Anakin because of how powerful he was in the Force. Well, to an extent he's right. Qui Gon kept talking up how Anakin was the "chosen one" who would "bring balance to the Force." He kept talking up how Anakin had sky high "midi chlorion" levels. In other words, he was heavy on Force power, and he told that to Obi Wan. Obi Wan fought to have Anakin made his apprentice and seems to have taken to the role. Obi Wan took him on as an obligation to Qui Gon who saw his power of the Force, so Obi Wan saw it as well.

Obi Wan, in a New Hope, says "I don't seem to remember owning a droid." Point of fact--he's correct. He never owned R2D2. He never said he didn't know who R2 was.

Uncle Owen---well, he met Anakin briefly when he visited looking for his mother. Then he went off and was not only into trying to become a Jedi, but he fought in the Clone Wars. Tattooine is an outer rim planet, neutral, and stayed out of the Clone Wars. Uncle Owen was given Anakin's son, presumably told who dad was, and Uncle Owen remembers a dad who went off on a mission to find his mother, killed a ton of Sand People in a crusade to avenge, joined the Jedi order, and left fighting the Clone Wars and never came back. Either that OR he knew Anakin went off to fight the Clone Wars AND turned into Vader on a crusade to conquer the galaxy for the Empire and bring order. Crusade could be Clone Wars, Jedi, sand people conquest, or Imperial fanaticism and switching to the Dark Side. Take your pick. Again---continuity fine.

If all those made-up excuses are fine for you then that's fine, but they sure aren't for me. I'm adamant on my dislike of the prequels and views about their continuity, and really don't want to discuss that anymore, as I've said countless times.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Charlie, no need to get up tight and angry, bro. I have given you a solid answer for each gripe you've plunked out, and when you don't like the fact that there is an answer, you retreat to the "yeah, whatever, bro" mode. I'm ok with that. I've answered your questions, and they're not poppycock replies. They're sound. I like how you say "countless times" you don't want to discuss this, yet reply each time. I'll take no further replies to mean you're actually meaning what you're saying this time.

Check, mate, and may the Force be with You! LOL

BTW, "countless" times is a bit much. I could count the posts! LOL

If all those made-up excuses are fine for you then that's fine, but they sure aren't for me. I'm adamant on my dislike of the prequels and views about their continuity, and really don't want to discuss that anymore, as I've said countless times.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

You're kind of switching topics here. First you blast it for the Force ghost thing and how Anakin couldn't possibly be given the redemption to have one. I point out that he could and why. Then you resort to comparing it to Batman and Robin?! LOL. What on Earth? Those 1990's Batman flicks had zero substance, awful everything, and were shlocky innocent stupidity. They were, in summation, a travesty. The nonsense of those films, shlocky and over-the-top camp that they were, are not anything like Star Wars Ep. III. So Mr. Freeze's life change, naturally, could mean nothing because the film is a camp-driven shlock-fest. Episode III has a dark tone, a serious tone, an intensity, and a purpose that is blatantly obvious---the fall of a conflicted young man and the misuse of a crisis by an evil opportunist. It's true to what Lucas described in the old films---the Emperor turned Anakin into a twisted, evil mess. He hunted down, and killed the Jedi, the Emperor was a crisis-hound who destroyed the Republic, etc. etc.

A lot of people don't like Hayden Christensen. I get that. And I CONCUR. I don't like him at all. Leonardo DiCapprio was the first round draft pick for that movie, but he turned it down. I think Tom Hardy would've been awesome as well, though he wasn't on the list. Paul Walker was also on the list as well. I think Christensen is a poor actor, and it took from the movie. I grant you that in a heartbeat. Natalie Portman, whom I dislike as an actress, did well in this movie. I wish they would've KEPT those cut scenes with Padme meeting with other dissident senators (including Mon Mothma!) forming the original Rebellion. Those were excellent!

Ewan McGregor also overacted at times, and could've done far better work.

But I think overall the scenes where the Jedi are killed off coupled with that soundtrack were downright sad, tough to watch, and emotional. I think seeing Padme lose her life was tough. I think the stuff with Palpatine was great. I liked the plot with the trade federation and separatists with Dukoo and the artificial crisis situation wherein a clone army "had" to be made. Unlike your appraisal, I think the lightsaber duel was truly epic. I enjoyed it, and do each time.

I think if Steven Spielberg would've directed this badboy, there would've been even better emotion and more substance, of course. But in appraising Lucas, I thought this was his moment of redemption with me. His constant revising of his old trilogy and second-guessing his vision to the point of nausea made me lose respect. Then the first two prequels fell pretty flat. I think this last hoorah for him worked. I am aware that most of the world hates Lucas nowdays. They have some right to dislike him. I think Marcia Lucas, his first wife, deserves more credit for the old original trilogy. She played a huge role in that, then he dropped her like a bad habit.

Like I said, throw in Idris Elba as Mace, DiCapprio or Hardy as Anakin, Anne Hathaway as Padme, keep my boy Ian McDiarmaid as the evil old Emperor, and let someone like Peter Jackson or Steven Spielberg direct and that film would've been 99% fresh. But the way I see it, with debits from Christensen and some small missteps, I give it 88%. I think it was fun and a worthy installment.

I am fine with the redemption thing, but that doesn't make it a good movie. Batman and Robin could be seen as redemption with Mr Freeze showing his mercy at the end, but that movie is still atrocious.



with the amount of time Lucas has messed with the original Trilogy, I don't think that is being picky at all. just more evidence of Lucas lack of being able to direct or write. and if Anakin's redemption is the focus of the story, that would be what I would iron out the most details with and be the most fussy. AND he wrote episodes I, II, and III when he wrote the others, so it's not like there was 20ish years of nothing and then he started writing again.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Vader being Luke's father was a late idea and not thought of until after they were sure they were doing a sequel. He might have outlined and figured out the ideas for I, II, and III once V got written, but that's a far cry from actually writing them. He might have said that in an interview, to be sure, but documentary evidence is against his assertion.

yeah, true, I was just going off of what he said. Lucas' habit of changing things makes sense even here. I sit corrected.