Staff/Members discussion [report-free]

[CaDan]

*checking in*

 

[Tallguy88]

I will agree with Gurney.

This is supposed to be an Orthodox-only forum, but we have Catholics who are regulars, and I often see inquirers and others from many denominations, and sometimes non-believers asking questions. We have a pretty diverse group showing up, and everyone is made welcome and treated kindly and with respect as a rule. The only thing not allowed is teaching non-Orthodox doctrines, and even that is generally met with multiple friendly reminders.

I think visitors are treated very well here.

You are right. I have always been treated well in TAW.

 

[ArmyMatt]

For example, if you go into Politics and start doing so as a topic, it is off-topic. If you do so in TAW - sure.

is that what happened to all these folks?

 

[Edial]

...
I need to make this clear to me. So you are saying we can only be a Christian on a Christian forum only in subforums? That is what it sounds like your saying

This is what I said ...

For example, if you go into Politics and start doing so as a topic, it is off-topic. ...
​

If you go into American Politics and open a thread that Islam is demonic it would be off-topic.
It is a not a place for it.

Do you know what "off-topic" means in reference to the rules?

If you think it is not being Christian following topics of sub-forum, what else can I say?

There is place for everything and time for everything.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[Edial]

is that what happened to all these folks?

What happened to what folks?
I do not understand the question.

 

[ArmyMatt]

What happened to what folks?
I do not understand the question.

did they start posting the anti-Islam stuff in the political forum or a forum where it was not appropriate?

 

[seashale76]

The poster in question (me) still hasn't received a satisfactory answer. The flaming and harassment rule is meant to apply against people. So- why is being applied to ideologies- especially those that are anti-Christian in nature? That is a misapplication of the rule. It shouldn't matter where on these boards anything occurs- if there is no consistency in how the rules are applied- then there are some real issues CF needs to address. (And- yes- I'm still leaving your forums. However- that should be irrelevant to the issue at hand here.) Also- I believe I insinuated that I was leaving not just due to the Islam factor (you might want to have more people moderating your Christianity and World Religions board a bit more diligently- fyi). but that there were other issues as well that have mounted up over the past year or so- my frustration has finally exceeded my apathy on the matter.

 

[Edial]

did they start posting the anti-Islam stuff in the political forum or a forum where it was not appropriate?

Apparently there is a lot of miscommunication going one.

Does anyone have complaints about anything?
Suggestions?

I would be more than happy to clarify.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[seashale76]

did they start posting the anti-Islam stuff in the political forum or a forum where it was not appropriate?

"They" responded in the News and Current Events forum to threads about ISIS sex slaves and other news of Islam on the same day. The specific post "they" got dinged for wasn't in response to people/posters- but the OP topic.

"They" started a thread in Member Services where "they" mentioned that others were also not currently thrilled with things here at CF and that Islam was a topic mentioned. "They" didn't instigate the TAW topic on the matter at all as "they" don't even post here in TAW all that frequently (said topic was already in full swing by the time "they" got here). "They" have less than 10,000 posts for being here for a decade- so "they" isn't exactly a prolific instigator around here.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Apparently there is a lot of miscommunication going one.

Does anyone have complaints about anything?
Suggestions?

I would be more than happy to clarify.

Thanks,
Ed

this whole thing started because some folks said some anti-Islam stuff. you stated earlier that we are not to just "shoot from the hip" or bring up something like that in an irrelevant thread (like the theology behind why Islam is wrong on a political thread). so my question is where did that happen? did someone tear into a specific Muslim on here, or was the topic irrelevant to an existing thread?

 

[Edial]

The poster in question (me) still hasn't received a satisfactory answer. The flaming and harassment rule is meant to apply against people. So- why is being applied to ideologies- especially those that are anti-Christian in nature? That is a misapplication of the rule. It shouldn't matter where on these boards anything occurs- if there is no consistency in how the rules are applied- then there are some real issues CF needs to address. (And- yes- I'm still leaving your forums. However- that should be irrelevant to the issue at hand here.) Also- I believe I insinuated that I was leaving not just due to the Islam factor (you might want to have more people moderating your Christianity and World Religions board a bit more diligently- fyi). but that there were other issues as well that have mounted up over the past year or so- my frustration has finally exceeded my apathy on the matter.

Hi "me".

OK, let's talk here.

You have a very good posting record and received your only warning.
You appealed.
I was planning to reverse it after we had a short mentoring chat.
The topic was sex-slavery and ISIS.

You said "Islam in action".
This is a PARTIALLY correct statement.

Sex-slavery is in Koran. However, NOT EVERY Muslim interprets it that way.
And these are legitimate Muslims accepted by other Muslims.

If you say Islam is like that you are saying every Muslim follows sex-slavery.

I recommended that in the future if you see the ISIS types blowing up buses and quoting something from Koran in support of it, you MAY say instead of "Islam in action", say "Extremist Islam in action" ... or "ISIS Islam in action".

I think this is very reasonable what I am saying.

Concerning CWR forum.

I agree, we are NOT doing a great job in proactive moderation.
However, during 2014 we were going through restructuring our ENTIRE staff and finally built up bridges into forums for proactive moderation.

2015 should bring significant changes to CF and hopefully by the end of the 1st qtr of 2015 moderation would be very visible in our forums.

This does not mean however you would see over-moderation.

You said there were other issues mounting over time.
If we could have helped we would have appreciated knowing what these are.

Does this answer your questions?

In Christ,
Ed

 

[Chesterton]

However, to say Islam in action is a violation because Muslims come in all shades. Not every Muslim believes in a literal interpretation of certain verses.

Any Christian will admit that there are millions of "nominal" Christians, Christians who identify as such and go to Church for cultural/social/traditional reasons, but who are not practicing Christians in their hearts. The same is (fortunately) true among the billion or so Muslims. But from the beginning of Islam, the violent Muslims are the True Believers, the ones who demonstrate that Islam is sickening. There is no question of literal versus figurative interpretation of the many concrete ideas such as "kill the infidel". Everyone should be allowed to call a spade a spade.

 

[Ioustinos]

Hi "me".

OK, let's talk here.

You have a very good posting record and received your only warning.
You appealed.
I was planning to reverse it after we had a short mentoring chat.
The topic was sex-slavery and ISIS.

You said "Islam in action".
This is a PARTIALLY correct statement.

Sex-slavery is in Koran. However, NOT EVERY Muslim interprets it that way.
And these are legitimate Muslims accepted by other Muslims.

If you say Islam is like that you are saying every Muslim follows sex-slavery.

I recommended that in the future if you see the ISIS types blowing up buses and quoting something from Koran in support of it, you MAY say instead of "Islam in action", say "Extremist Islam in action" ... or "ISIS Islam in action".

I think this is very reasonable what I am saying.

Concerning CWR forum.

I agree, we are NOT doing a great job in proactive moderation.
However, during 2014 we were going through restructuring our ENTIRE staff and finally built up bridges into forums for proactive moderation.

2015 should bring significant changes to CF and hopefully by the end of the 1st qtr of 2015 moderation would be very visible in our forums.

This does not mean however you would see over-moderation.

You said there were other issues mounting over time.
If we could have helped we would have appreciated knowing what these are.

Does this answer your questions?

In Christ,
Ed

Hi Ed!

I've been a member of CF going on 13 years now. I'm more of a lurker than poster, but I have stuck around for the many changes this site has undergone.

I want to take issue with your statement above (see bolded). What was said was not inflammatory. What the other member stated was their own interpretation and if personal interpretations cannot nor will not be tolerated then many of the subforums should be locked and shut down immediately (General Theology first comes to mind). Furthermore, if a member cannot post an opinion then what is the point of this entire site?

I do not see anything derogatory or inflammatory in what was said. Could others agree? Certainly. May some be offended? Possibly. But must members be censured because their opinion differs from others and has the possiblity of offending others?

True interaction and dialogue comes from honesty and if one cannot speak their mind (without personal insults or spamming) then what's the point in sticking around?

 

[Chesterton]

Seashale, I really, really hope you don't leave. I've always enjoyed your postings a lot.

 

[Edial]

Hi Ed!

I've been a member of CF going on 13 years now. I'm more of a lurker than poster, but I have stuck around for the many changes this site has undergone.

I want to take issue with your statement above (see bolded). What was said was not inflammatory. What the other member stated was their own interpretation and if personal interpretations cannot nor will not be tolerated then many of the subforums should be locked and shut down immediately (General Theology first comes to mind). Furthermore, if a member cannot post an opinion then what is the point of this entire site?

I do not see anything derogatory or inflammatory in what was said. Could others agree? Certainly. May some be offended? Possibly. But must members be censured because their opinion differs from others and has the possiblity of offending others?

True interaction and dialogue comes from honesty and if one cannot speak their mind (without personal insults or spamming) then what's the point in sticking around?

I understand what you are saying.
However, posting style is everything.

Someone says - Liberals are idiots.
Someone says - Conservatives are jerks.

Well, once you say that, you flame Liberals and Conservatives who are NOT idiots nor jerks.
That is clear.

Why can't one say - "some" Liberals are idiots? Some Conservatives are jerks?

That is where MSC mentoring comes in.
We usually reverse violations once people understand and agree.

The problem is, some people do not necessarily enjoy debating, but hurting others.
Some folks get a "high" over it.

Hey, it is easy yelling at total strangers who have no way of punching you on the nose.

Please understand that this is a Christian forum.
Some things will be changed - Lord willing.

If people confuse Christianity with a license to insult people they do not even know, just because Jesus called the Pharisees (whom he knew intimately) the children of the Devil, then this is not a place for it.

You are FREE to debate that Kaballah or Talmud is not of God. Even demonic. You can debate Koran was inspired by the Devil himself - no problem. But you have to be able to support your claims.

But if we say - Liberals are idiots - you will be flagged.
Not EVERY Liberal is an idiot.

I hope this makes sense.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[Edial]

Any Christian will admit that there are millions of "nominal" Christians, Christians who identify as such and go to Church for cultural/social/traditional reasons, but who are not practicing Christians in their hearts. The same is (fortunately) true among the billion or so Muslims. But from the beginning of Islam, the violent Muslims are the True Believers, the ones who demonstrate that Islam is sickening. There is no question of literal versus figurative interpretation of the many concrete ideas such as "kill the infidel". Everyone should be allowed to call a spade a spade.

But we are NOT to judge who is nominal and who is not nominal in Islam.

There ARE fully recognized Muslims who do not believe in the literal Koran.
OTHER Muslims accept them.

Do we understand that CF is a Ministry that has Outreach at it's heart?

You want to address "kill the infidel" topic?
ADDRESS it. No one is stopping you.

Let me give you some example ...

You want me to start going over the Old Testament verses and say that Christianity promotes killing children?

OT heroes had many wives - Christianity is promoting polygamy!

Then we have Abraham and Sarah ... and Hagar. ... Christianity promoting ... :o!

If a Muslim blows up a bus and quotes Koran or Allah u akbar - you refer to it as Extremist Islam.

I am trying to help you guys here.

Posting style is everything.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[topcare]

This is what I said ...

For example, if you go into Politics and start doing so as a topic, it is off-topic. ...
​

If you go into American Politics and open a thread that Islam is demonic it would be off-topic.
It is a not a place for it.

Do you know what "off-topic" means in reference to the rules?

If you think it is not being Christian following topics of sub-forum, what else can I say?

There is place for everything and time for everything.

Thanks,
Ed

Wow. I am speechless. I honestly never expected not to be able to be a Christian on a Christian forum.

 

[Edial]

Wow. I am speechless. I honestly never expected not to be able to be a Christian on a Christian forum.

Maybe you do not know what off-topic means.

Let's say a sub-forum's name is Gardening.
If you post any topic that is not related to gardening it is off-topic.

If forum is American Politics - every topic must be about American Politics.

Congregational areas, like TAW, OBOB, Spirit/Filled, Baptist ... in these sub-forums you can talk about anything you want that is not against the local set of rules.
Talk about Islam all you want.

So, if you open a thread in American Politics about why Islam is wrong, the topic has nothing to do with American Politics.

If thread is reported the moderators would probably either move it to UT or even give a violation of poster keeps on doing the same thing.

Does this make sense?

 

[Antony in Tx]

I understand what you are saying.
However, posting style is everything...



...The problem is, some people do not necessarily enjoy debating, but hurting others.
Some folks get a "high" over it.

Hey, it is easy yelling at total strangers who have no way of punching you on the nose.

Please understand that this is a Christian forum.
Some things will be changed - Lord willing.

If people confuse Christianity with a license to insult people they do not even know, just because Jesus called the Pharisees (whom he knew intimately) the children of the Devil, then this is not a place for it.


I hope this makes sense.

Thanks,
Ed

Let me give you some example ...

You want me to start going over the Old Testament verses and say that Christianity promotes killing children?

OT heroes had many wives - Christianity is promoting polygamy!

Then we have Abraham and Sarah ... and Hagar. ... Christianity promoting ... :o!

If a Muslim blows up a bus and quotes Koran or Allah u akbar - you refer to it as Extremist Islam.

I am trying to help you guys here.

Posting style is everything.

Thanks,
Ed

Ed, understand that I agree totally that we need to be humble and conciliatory in our approach to those outside the Church. I rarely, if ever, choose to engage in debate because it often devolves into a verbal "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ing contest".

I absolutely do not venture outside TAW for the very reason that I come her to fellowship with other Orthodox and like minded people and to minister to outsiders who wander into our house. I am certain you are aware that a number of our regular posters here are clergy, some are even monastics. Others of us are Cradle Orthodox who enjoy discussing deeper issues. A number are recent converts who are looking for guidance and fellowship that grows our faith.

Those of us who are Orthodox likely know who is who if we have been here very long, we know what to watch for.

That said, I will now address the quotes from above. In the first, you engage in exactly what you have warned us against...casting aspersions as to what is in the heart of "me" (not me, but apparently we are not supposed to name names) in his/her posts without any support for that. I find that somewhat offensive but forgivable as it is just evidence of how fallen all of us are as mortal humans.

In the second, I feel actually insulted because Christianity in no way promotes any of those things and for you to use that as an example flies in the face of available evidence, while there are ample examples of contemporary practice in Islam that is IS INDEED a religion of violence and evil. I have friends who have had to leave their countries and leave everything behind because of threats on their lives if they would not renounce Christ. I also have a Muslim friend who left Pakistan on a mule through the mountains to come to America because a price had been put on his head by the Taliban. His crime? Being a doctor who treated women and children, and refused stop providing medical care to them when the Imam told him to. I go to church with people who have had family members stoned, beheaded, disfigured, had their posessions taken. When you hear in the news about rockets fired in Jordan, I hear about whose house those rockets went over at church. Do YOU have a personal history of dealing with Isamic violence? Do you have a clue how many of us do? This is brought up to provide you with some perspective. This would be like you lecturing a group of Israeli Jews on how suicide bombing isn't really such a scary topic if you just watch out where you go. The fact is that mainstream Christianity deounces people who practice extremism that is hurtful in the name of Christ, but it seems to me that much of Islam stands silently by in fear rather than condemning the bad practices.

If I have in any way offended, please forgive me, for I am first amongst sinners. My comments are meant to give perspective and remind you that your Christianity is not necessarily another's Christianity, and that perspective can drive strong emotions. Please be gentle with us, and forgive us when we transgress. To try to tell us that we need to just be less sensitive or to be a little softer with those who would kill and maim us in the name of destroying Christianity (which IS a basic tenet of Islam) comes off as patronizing and having no respect for what Orthodox Christians live with every day.

In Christ
Antony

 

[topcare]

Maybe you do not know what off-topic means.

Let's say a sub-forum's name is Gardening.
If you post any topic that is not related to gardening it is off-topic.

If forum is American Politics - every topic must be about American Politics.

Congregational areas, like TAW, OBOB, Spirit/Filled, Baptist ... in these sub-forums you can talk about anything you want that is not against the local set of rules.
Talk about Islam all you want.

So, if you open a thread in American Politics about why Islam is wrong, the topic has nothing to do with American Politics.

If thread is reported the moderators would probably either move it to UT or even give a violation of poster keeps on doing the same thing.

Does this make sense?

However if some starts a topic a Christian should be free to respond. Say someone starts a topic about islam we should be able to say islam is evil without fear of punishment on a Christian site. I am not say starting a topic but posting in the topic