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~Anastasia~

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Go for it, without naming names.

Thank you.

I may be getting the idea of what staff is objecting to, in the posts in the interim.

I believe the comment was something substantially like:

Islam in action.
Sickening.

As I said, the context I am less sure of. So much has happened. Children are being publicly beheaded for refusing to renounce Christ. I find it heartbreaking, and sickening, yes. So if that was the context, I don't disagree with the sentiment. One could argue, I suppose, that the actions of ISIS don't represent Islam. But I would not disagree that it is sickening.

But is it the brevity that drew the warning? Is that a "drive-by" as you are saying?

Thank you.
 
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Edial

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Thank you.

I may be getting the idea of what staff is objecting to, in the posts in the interim.

I believe the comment was something substantially like:

Islam in action.
Sickening.

As I said, the context I am less sure of. So much has happened. Children are being publicly beheaded for refusing to renounce Christ. I find it heartbreaking, and sickening, yes. So if that was the context, I don't disagree with the sentiment. One could argue, I suppose, that the actions of ISIS don't represent Islam. But I would not disagree that it is sickening.

But is it the brevity that drew the warning? Is that a "drive-by" as you are saying?

Thank you.
That particular violation had to do about sex slavery.
Koran does approve sex with slaves under certain conditions.

However, to say Islam in action is a violation because Muslims come in all shades. Not every Muslim believes in a literal interpretation of certain verses.

I told that poster that saying Islam is sickening in a context of sex slaves means EVERY Muslim believes in sex slavery.
It is not true.

So to say "Islam in action!" in context of sex slavery is NOT a true statement.
To say "Extremist Islam in action!" ... or even ISIS Islam in action!" is a true statement.

I suggested the poster she might call Extremist Islam in action (in the context of ISIS sex slavery).

Then ... I am told the poster already was planning to leave because CF is protecting Islam.
I was like ... :o what is going on?
I was planning to reverse the violation after some mentoring.

And now I find our we have a revolution in TAW with a full blown campaign of dragging everyone out of TAW.

Guys. Talk to me.
 
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Just my two cents (wondering if I'm going to pay for saying this?!), but I think TAW is being over-moderated. I have dear friends of mine whom I find to be true treasures leaving here. They're getting warnings over small things.

And lately I think there is just an over-emphasis on labeling and "flames." It seems just about anything and everything these days can be considered a flame on here. I believe Islam is evil and demonic. I agree with everything Matt has said.

And moderators should note that one of our great Orthodox Fathers, St. John Damascene lived during the advent of Islam and condemned it as a Christian heresy. And where we Orthodox stand on heresy is that IT IS EVIL. Heresies are false, warped, twisted teachings about Christ and His Church and the theology of God that pollutes and perverts the Truth. Islam is a Christian heresy. I'm sticking to St. John Damascene on this. Muhammad was a false prophet, pure and simple.

Has Christian Forums turned into Sony? Sony makes a movie about North Korea's dictator getting offed and as a result, they get threatened and Sony shuts the project down? Is Christian Forums an Islamic forum now? Are we afraid of ticking off some jihadists who will hack CF and change all our avatars to pictures of the Ayatollah Khomeini? Why are we so afraid on here to call a spade a spade?

I imagine Jesus Himself would've been booted off CF pretty fast calling the Pharisees "hypocrites" and his "white sepulchers" comment would've failed miserably in here. "Fools" came out of His mouth. That wouldn't have flown too well.

Do I suggest we start throwing out strong terms like that? Nope. But I do think sometimes the referees just need to LET THE PLAYERS PLAY BALL and only intervene when a serious rule is obviously, blatantly, truly, profoundly broken. There aren't a lot of Muslims in TAW, and we have the right to stick to the teachings of our Church. I suggest if Muslims find the notion of their religion being false hurtful, they can take it up in St. Justin's, leave TAW, or convert to Holy Orthodoxy! :)

Free speech is being stunted with over-moderation on the "flaming" stuff. We're losing good people in here, and it's quickly becoming a place perceived to be a quasi-Orthodox subforum because it's over-moderated by non-Orthodox who are more concerned with non-Christians than protecting Christians' rights to express ourselves.

The West is rapidly becoming a fascist dictatorship of ideas. We can't express ourselves in public without being labeled "homophobes," "haters," "intolerant," "shamanistic," "anti-woman," and a host of other absurdities, but now even online in what should be a safe-haven for all Christians in their own subforums, there are people who just won't let us speak the Truth.

We have people in here who like evolution and same-sex 'marriage' and other liberal, un-Orthodox ideas, and they will turn in traditionalists at the drop of a hat. I think moderators should let the players play ball and start looking at spite reporting more and just shrug some of this junk off!

Over-moderation will effectively kill TAW. I can already see it starting. The intellectual capital here will leave and you'll be left with plenty of visitors with good questions that WON'T be answered! Why? Because it will be empty of bereft of brains.

I went through a spiritual funk recently; it got bad. Really bad. I was low. My brethren in here PICKED ME UP. As a result, I am back at Divine Liturgy, just went to confession again yesterday, read at Vespers, and I'm getting trained this week to be a Reader by my priest. I credit many posters in here at TAW for picking me up. Several of those picker-upers are being warned over Islam and other stuff. It's super frustrating.

TAW is pretty small as it is. I hope mods will reconsider the approach and how Islam's defense isn't worth running away Christians from this good forum.

I will also make the point that I think calling Islam demonic is a far cry from Christian polemics between denominations. Personally, I find Catholicism SERIOUSLY lacking and suffering some false beliefs, but I have HUGE respect for most Catholics, many Catholic thinkers and clergy, and I wish them nothing but the best. Try finding TAW members who will call Catholics "demonic." Or Lutherans! My kids go to an LCMS Lutheran school. I have SO MUCH respect for Lutherans. I do not accept the "solas" of Lutheranism in the least, but I understand why Luther reacted the way he did to Medieval Catholicism. I also think he had a good heart and some truth is in there. I won't call him "Martin Loser" like I read on many online Catholic forums. Absurd. Same with other Christian personalities.

But from time to time I and others have made comments about the Episcopal Church being 'wacky' or something of that vein, and all were swiftly dealt with as flamers (in the online context!). When we see things super far from what we Orthodox view as kosher, I think we should be given some latitude, just as Episcopalians can, in STR, think we Orthodox are fuddy-duddy male chauvinist pigs for not allowing female clergy, etc.

I guess I'm saying that we need to let our hair down a touch and just not overmoderate.

Apologies. I'm rambling. :sorry::p
 
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Edial

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Thank you. I find it curious that than ones can not call a spade as such but must use other words to make nice so as not to offend non believers. Again thank you
Guys, if you are planning on leaving anyway, please no problem.

We can even close TAW if you wish.

But please, don't play games here.
I see a lot of campaigning happening in the backgrounds against CF.
And not one of you contacted the Advisors.

Let me explain.

CF is NOT a church.
CF is a Christian forum that has OUTREACH at it's heart.

You are FREE to discuss that Islam is a demonic religion, but you need to explain why.

You are NOT FREE to come to any non-Christian and start calling him an anti-Christ. No drive-by shooting.

This is not CF idea of OUTREACH.

I really hope it makes sense.
 
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Edial

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Just my two cents (wondering if I'm going to pay for saying this?!), but I think TAW is being over-moderated. I have dear friends of mine whom I find to be true treasures leaving here. They're getting warnings over small things.

And lately I think there is just an over-emphasis on labeling and "flames." It seems just about anything and everything these days can be considered a flame on here. I believe Islam is evil and demonic. I agree with everything Matt has said.

And moderators should note that one of our great Orthodox Fathers, St. John Damascene lived during the advent of Islam and condemned it as a Christian heresy. And where we Orthodox stand on heresy is that IT IS EVIL. Heresies are false, warped, twisted teachings about Christ and His Church and the theology of God that pollutes and perverts the Truth. Islam is a Christian heresy. I'm sticking to St. John Damascene on this. Muhammad was a false prophet, pure and simple.

Has Christian Forums turned into Sony? Sony makes a movie about North Korea's dictator getting offed and as a result, they get threatened and Sony shuts the project down? Is Christian Forums an Islamic forum now? Are we afraid of ticking off some jihadists who will hack CF and change all our avatars to pictures of the Ayatollah Khomeini? Why are we so afraid on here to call a spade a spade?

I imagine Jesus Himself would've been booted off CF pretty fast calling the Pharisees "hypocrites" and his "white sepulchers" comment would've failed miserably in here. "Fools" came out of His mouth. That wouldn't have flown too well.

Do I suggest we start throwing out strong terms like that? Nope. But I do think sometimes the referees just need to LET THE PLAYERS PLAY BALL and only intervene when a serious rule is obviously, blatantly, truly, profoundly broken. There aren't a lot of Muslims in TAW, and we have the right to stick to the teachings of our Church. I suggest if Muslims find the notion of their religion being false hurtful, they can take it up in St. Justin's, leave TAW, or convert to Holy Orthodoxy! :)

Free speech is being stunted with over-moderation on the "flaming" stuff. We're losing good people in here, and it's quickly becoming a place perceived to be a quasi-Orthodox subforum because it's over-moderated by non-Orthodox who are more concerned with non-Christians than protecting Christians' rights to express ourselves.

The West is rapidly becoming a fascist dictatorship of ideas. We can't express ourselves in public without being labeled "homophobes," "haters," "intolerant," "shamanistic," "anti-woman," and a host of other absurdities, but now even online in what should be a safe-haven for all Christians in their own subforums, there are people who just won't let us speak the Truth.

We have people in here who like evolution and same-sex 'marriage' and other liberal, un-Orthodox ideas, and they will turn in traditionalists at the drop of a hat. I think moderators should let the players play ball and start looking at spite reporting more and just shrug some of this junk off!

Over-moderation will effectively kill TAW. I can already see it starting. The intellectual capital here will leave and you'll be left with plenty of visitors with good questions that WON'T be answered! Why? Because it will be empty of bereft of brains.

I went through a spiritual funk recently; it got bad. Really bad. I was low. My brethren in here PICKED ME UP. As a result, I am back at Divine Liturgy, just went to confession again yesterday, read at Vespers, and I'm getting trained this week to be a Reader by my priest. I credit many posters in here at TAW for picking me up. Several of those picker-upers are being warned over Islam and other stuff. It's super frustrating.

TAW is pretty small as it is. I hope mods will reconsider the approach and how Islam's defense isn't worth running away Christians from this good forum.

I will also make the point that I think calling Islam demonic is a far cry from Christian polemics between denominations. Personally, I find Catholicism SERIOUSLY lacking and suffering some false beliefs, but I have HUGE respect for most Catholics, many Catholic thinkers and clergy, and I wish them nothing but the best. Try finding TAW members who will call Catholics "demonic." Or Lutherans! My kids go to an LCMS Lutheran school. I have SO MUCH respect for Lutherans. I do not accept the "solas" of Lutheranism in the least, but I understand why Luther reacted the way he did to Medieval Catholicism. I also think he had a good heart and some truth is in there. I won't call him "Martin Loser" like I read on many online Catholic forums. Absurd. Same with other Christian personalities.

But from time to time I and others have made comments about the Episcopal Church being 'wacky' or something of that vein, and all were swiftly dealt with as flamers (in the online context!). When we see things super far from what we Orthodox view as kosher, I think we should be given some latitude, just as Episcopalians can, in STR, think we Orthodox are fuddy-duddy male chauvinist pigs for not allowing female clergy, etc.

I guess I'm saying that we need to let our hair down a touch and just not overmoderate.

Apologies. I'm rambling. :sorry::p
If you feel you are being over-moderated or have complaints please open thread in MSC, ask for an Advisor and we would see what is what.

All this is a news to me.
 
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Edial

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Respectfully, Ed, how do you know this?
I saw that thread asking TAW member to leave over Islam.
I had a person telling me she already was planning to leave over Islam.
And I know Advisors were not contacted because I am an Advisor.
 
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Tallguy88

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Do I suggest we start throwing out strong terms like that? Nope. But I do think sometimes the referees just need to LET THE PLAYERS PLAY BALL and only intervene when a serious rule is obviously, blatantly, truly, profoundly broken. There aren't a lot of Muslims in TAW, and we have the right to stick to the teachings of our Church. I suggest if Muslims find the notion of their religion being false hurtful, they can take it up in St. Justin's, leave TAW, or convert to Holy Orthodoxy!

Free speech is being stunted with over-moderation on the "flaming" stuff. We're losing good people in here, and it's quickly becoming a place perceived to be a quasi-Orthodox subforum because it's over-moderated by non-Orthodox who are more concerned with non-Christians than protecting Christians' rights to express ourselves.

I would like to point out that the "Islam in action" warning did not come from TAW. I believe it was in News and Current Events, a debate and discussion area where non-Christians are able to fully participate (not promote other religions, but they can debate the news and such).

Not trying to discount your overall point, just clarifying that this particular report was not something stemming from the Orthodox safe-haven.
 
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But are you sure this person is credible and really knew this poster was leaving over Islam?

I saw that thread asking TAW member to leave over Islam.
I had a person telling me she already was planning to leave over Islam.
And I know Advisors were not contacted because I am an Advisor.
 
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Good point, TG. Thanks for clarifying that. It does make a difference; you're right.

I would like to point out that the "Islam in action" warning did not come from TAW. I believe it was in News and Current Events, a debate and discussion area where non-Christians are able to fully participate (not promote other religions, but they can debate the news and such).

Not trying to discount your overall point, just clarifying that this particular report was not something stemming from the Orthodox safe-haven.
 
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James Is Back

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I want to put in my opinion on this. Even though it says Christian Forums I'm glad we have a diverse set of different religions here. Yes that includes Islam,Buddhists heck even Atheists. This allows them to see our viewpoint and maybe learn something about Christianity in hopes that they might convert. It also allows us to witness and teach them in hopes that they might convert that way also. We shouldn't show hate and malice even if we disagree with their beliefs. We should be good shepherds and show love and respect even towards those we disagree with. If we show hatred and anger we fail as Christians to help them and we most importantly fail God as we are to bring more sheep to the flock and we can't do that if we drive them away because we showed them hate,anger and malice.

In closing remember what Jesus said the two greatest commandments are:

1.To love God with all of your heart,soul,mind and strength and
2.To love your neighbor as you love yourself
 
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Fortunately in TAW I've never seen Muslims or atheists treated with malice. Several skeptics have found solace here, some have left because they didn't get what they wanted to hear...but overall my observation is that Orthodox in here are quite charitable to non-Christians.

I want to put in my opinion on this. Even though it says Christian Forums I'm glad we have a diverse set of different religions here. Yes that includes Islam,Buddhists heck even Atheists. This allows them to see our viewpoint and maybe learn something about Christianity in hopes that they might convert. It also allows us to witness and teach them in hopes that they might convert that way also. We shouldn't show hate and malice even if we disagree with their beliefs. We should be good shepherds and show love and respect even towards those we disagree with. If we show hatred and anger we fail as Christians to help them and we most importantly fail God as we are to bring more sheep to the flock and we can't do that if we drive them away because we showed them hate,anger and malice.

In closing remember what Jesus said the two greatest commandments are:

1.To love God with all of your heart,soul,mind and strength and
2.To love your neighbor as you love yourself
 
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James Is Back

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Fortunately in TAW I've never seen Muslims or atheists treated with malice. Several skeptics have found solace here, some have left because they didn't get what they wanted to hear...but overall my observation is that Orthodox in here are quite charitable to non-Christians.

That's good to hear. Glad that people in the TAW forum are good shepherds towards are non Christian members.
 
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~Anastasia~

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Good point, TG. Thanks for clarifying that. It does make a difference; you're right.

I agree, that does make a difference.

I think that was actually said here in the beginning, but I had forgotten details.

But it is different from the same pistol getting the same response in TAW.

(And fwiw, I have no desire or intention of leaving)
 
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~Anastasia~

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I want to put in my opinion on this. Even though it says Christian Forums I'm glad we have a diverse set of different religions here. Yes that includes Islam,Buddhists heck even Atheists. This allows them to see our viewpoint and maybe learn something about Christianity in hopes that they might convert. It also allows us to witness and teach them in hopes that they might convert that way also. We shouldn't show hate and malice even if we disagree with their beliefs. We should be good shepherds and show love and respect even towards those we disagree with. If we show hatred and anger we fail as Christians to help them and we most importantly fail God as we are to bring more sheep to the flock and we can't do that if we drive them away because we showed them hate,anger and malice.

In closing remember what Jesus said the two greatest commandments are:

1.To love God with all of your heart,soul,mind and strength and
2.To love your neighbor as you love yourself


I will agree with Gurney.

This is supposed to be an Orthodox-only forum, but we have Catholics who are regulars, and I often see inquirers and others from many denominations, and sometimes non-believers asking questions. We have a pretty diverse group showing up, and everyone is made welcome and treated kindly and with respect as a rule. The only thing not allowed is teaching non-Orthodox doctrines, and even that is generally met with multiple friendly reminders.

I think visitors are treated very well here. :)
 
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ArmyMatt

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That is correct - anyone outside of Christian faith.
You are asking to walk around CF and start calling every non-Christian an anti-Christ.

You may have discussion on this if you wish, but no drive-by shooting.

I don't drive by shoot. I have yet to go on any other thread other than what is here on TAW, I don't condemn anyone, but we are called to speak the Truth in love. the TRUTH for their salvation is that Islam is demonic, and we must be willing to tell them that because we love them. these are not my words.

CF is NOT a church.
It is a Forum, that is Christian in nature.
We have people from other religions here as well and out objective is to WITNESS to them.

No drive-by shooting.

I know it is not a Church, and I know it is a forum. one of the ways that I was witnessed to, became Orthodox, and actually found the Truth is someone told me I was wrong and living in error. did he right away say I was a heretic? no. but the conversation led to that.

and again, I don't, nor do I know anyone who does, drive by shoot.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Fortunately in TAW I've never seen Muslims or atheists treated with malice. Several skeptics have found solace here, some have left because they didn't get what they wanted to hear...but overall my observation is that Orthodox in here are quite charitable to non-Christians.

same here
 
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Edial

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I don't drive by shoot. I have yet to go on any other thread other than what is here on TAW, I don't condemn anyone, but we are called to speak the Truth in love. the TRUTH for their salvation is that Islam is demonic, and we must be willing to tell them that because we love them. these are not my words.



I know it is not a Church, and I know it is a forum. one of the ways that I was witnessed to, became Orthodox, and actually found the Truth is someone told me I was wrong and living in error. did he right away say I was a heretic? no. but the conversation led to that.

and again, I don't, nor do I know anyone who does, drive by shoot.
Yes, you may have conversations that non-Christian religions are not true and even demonic, if you can do so in a conversation by showing why.

But there are also forums for that and context.

For example, if you go into Politics and start doing so as a topic, it is off-topic. If you do so in TAW - sure.
 
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topcare

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Guys, if you are planning on leaving anyway, please no problem.

We can even close TAW if you wish.

But please, don't play games here.
I see a lot of campaigning happening in the backgrounds against CF.
And not one of you contacted the Advisors.

Let me explain.

CF is NOT a church.
CF is a Christian forum that has OUTREACH at it's heart.

You are FREE to discuss that Islam is a demonic religion, but you need to explain why.

You are NOT FREE to come to any non-Christian and start calling him an anti-Christ. No drive-by shooting.

This is not CF idea of OUTREACH.

I really hope it makes sense.

I just ask a simple question

Yes, you may have conversations that non-Christian religions are not true and even demonic, if you can do so in a conversation by showing why.

But there are also forums for that and context.

For example, if you go into Politics and start doing so as a topic, it is off-topic. If you do so in TAW - sure.

I need to make this clear to me. So you are saying we can only be a Christian on a Christian forum only in subforums? That is what it sounds like your saying
 
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