Staff and Member discussion thread.

[Yahudim]

It always takes me too long to post. By the time I've finished reading, researching and responding, another page full of posts have been published and I am way behind again. Oh well, I need a break anyway...

 

[Tishri1]

Definately a video work having for a sticky and heads up in line with the SOP

LOL this was one of the classes Ani and I just attended at the MJAA conference last month, yes consider it stuck

Sent from my iPad using CF God Bless You

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

It always takes me too long to post. By the time I've finished reading, researching and responding, another page full of posts have been published and I am way behind again. Oh well, I need a break anyway...

I have the same problem!

 

[Henaynei]

Amen Henaynei

I am still embarrassed for calling you sir the other day

Shalom

LOL not to worry on the app I have to use on my iPod gender is one of the many things that is missing from both the post header information and the profile information provided! I have to guess all the time. I've been told my posting style is often somewhat masculine so errors are more than excusable

b'Shalom {iPod touch w/CF app}

 

[Henaynei]

Hahaha! I've tried one-man suggestions while I have been here - posters have often agreed but not staff so, by and large, no notice is taken and I can't be bothered any more.

I think what they are asking is we each forgive each other and start from a new beginning much as the L-rd allows us to do after being forgiven of our own trespasses.

HE forgives us more than "70 x 7." Should we not forgive both posters and mods at least that many times since that, too, is a Mitzvah?

b'Shalom {iPod touch w/CF app}

 

[Gxg (G²)]

LOL this was one of the classes Ani and I just attended at the MJAA conference last month, yes consider it stuck

Sent from my iPad using CF God Bless You

 

[Henaynei]

Rule by the Mob, it seems...and that'd be horrible

It was, trust me. It was a practice in true political anarchy.

b'Shalom {iPod touch w/CF app}

 

[Gxg (G²)]

There aren't many opportunities for worship with the little ones I have, or for volunteering, but I am looking at our finances to make sure we are supporting people where G-d is leading us right now.

With our large homeless population, it doesn't make sense not to provide and share with our small abundance, and with the teaching we've greatly benefited from, I want to make sure we support the TV channel that has brought us such gems, so they don't go away. From there, as things improve, I'd like to be able to give to other charities. As the children grow, and my health improves, I'd like to put my money where my mouth is, and get out there and do as well as give..

Praying the Lord would bless your efforts, Sis, as you seek to ensure that your family grows up realizing the things you did when it comes to living out your theology rather than talking about it. It is often the case that many discussions can go down discussing things that may or may not be deemed as "false teaching/false doctrine"---and yet when was the last time something was labeled as a "false doctrine" like failure to love someone while claiming to love the Lord...and failing to put our finances where we say our heart is?


Awesome to hear what you shared, especially in light of what Christ noted:

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Luke 14:12-13
12 Then Jesus said to his host, “When you give a luncheon or dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers or sisters, your relatives, or your rich neighbors; if you do, they may invite you back and so you will be repaid. 13 But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, 14 and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”
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http://classic.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke 14&version=NIV#en-NIV-25559

http://classic.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke 14&version=NIV#en-NIV-25559
​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

It was, trust me. It was a practice in true political anarchy.

b'Shalom {iPod touch w/CF app}

Glad we're not there anymore, even though it seems alot of times as if there's somewhat of a desire by many to go by that (i.e. Majority demands equal what is enforced and what others fight against people to accept, even though policy/rules say otherwise).

In many ways, "House Party" is a good way of expressing how things are at times

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Thank God the report button wasn't around in the 1stC.

Technically it was...although the mods enforcing things then were those who were the elders/leaders of the Jewish Church/body of Messiah....alongside the Gentile leaders they worked with.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Thanks for the support EZ, I kinda dropped the ball on that myself and for that I'm sorry, for a while I was not able to be here as much as I would have liked to be here as I share one lap top with five people two of which are teens.... then I was blessed to win a contest at work and won an IPAD2!!!!!.

Truthfully, I'm glad and yet a bit sad that you won the IPAD. Hoping to win one myself in some contests (or at least a Kindle so I'd not have to keep walking around carrying all of the books I do ). Forgive me for coveting the gift you have gained( Exodus 20:16-18 , Romans 7:6-8 , Romans 13:8-10 )...but glad it has helped you to do some things!!

I can help us thru that transition now better, as long as everyone is still willing to try it out.....3 mos is all it will take to test run this new look in MJ

I'm up for it...and praying that all others will be as well. But there'll probably be alot of others not for it. To that, if it cannot be honored in the small thing you've requested, truthfully, I'd wonder how much there's a real commitment to be like Yeshua and serve one another/seek to be in Unity as the scriptures note ( John 13, John 17:6 )

Psalm 133

A song of ascents. Of David.
1 How good and pleasant it is
when God’s people live together in unity! 2 It is like precious oil poured on the head,
running down on the beard,
running down on Aaron’s beard,
down on the collar of his robe.
3 It is as if the dew of Hermon
were falling on Mount Zion.
For there the LORD bestows his blessing,
even life forevermore.


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John 13:35
By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”
John 13:34-36

Romans 12:9-11

Love in Action

9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10 Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves. 11 Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord.

Romans 13:8
[ Love Fulfills the Law ] Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.
Romans 13:7-9

Galatians 5:13

Life by the Spirit

13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[

Ephesians 4:2
Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love.
Ephesians 4:1-3

Hebrews 10:24
And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds,
Hebrews 10:23-25

1 Peter 3:8
[ Suffering for Doing Good ] Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble.
1 Peter 3:7-9

1 John 3:23
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.
1 John 3:22-24 (

2 John 1:5
And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another.
2 John 1:4-6
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[Gxg (G²)]

...there have been many misunderstandings about MJ with the rest of the board when Christianity is debunked and dissed in here. After all when folks think of Christianity they think Jesus and rightly so.....When they see it dissed, or devalued, it's a logical conclusion to think we care less about Yeshua, or nothing at all for Him......and when the emotions enter in with phrases such as ....."we can't follow their God Jesus as he is not our Messiah"(I'm paraphrasing and it wasn't necessarily any one here who said it, it was just something that was reported and boy did I have to do a lot of "splainen" for that one...).you can only imagine what that conjures up in the minds of staff, and cf members alike. The fact is we are apart of the body of Christ/Messiah and albeit different, we hold many truths the same, and need to appreciate the things we have in common more.

Sent from my iPad using CF God Bless You

Yeshua and His blood/resurrection and sanctification through the Spirit and the beauty of His Torah is what unites us all

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Awesome post EZ I think this is a perfect way to start getting to know each other in a positive way!

Skype is another way, although that'd take things to entirely different levels if we all were able to see and hear one another physically since many things can be misread through the screen at times...and sometimes, people can read more into what is said based on how they filter things due to other experiences with certain forms of language (or how others may be limited in sharing the length of experiences/thought in a post).

 

[Tishri1]

If you are referring to that video I posted, I can't see how they would be against the SoP. He says 'when He comes back everyone is going to keep them'.

"Anti Torah campaigns-While MJs believe they are saved by grace and faith in Yeshua Messiah, they honor and respect the Torah given by Moses. No campaigning against the Torah"

If someone posts in a way 'you got to keep the Torah and if you don't...' does anyone have a right to challenge that or it's also possible believers are being misunderstood on both sides. I'm involved in another forum and there are Torah positive believers there that do this 'if you don't keep the Law you'll be least in the Kingdom of Heaven'.

Just as its unfair to post that Torah has been nailed to the Cross, it is equally unfair to say that lawlessness is equal to sin and bait folks to debate Torah Observance....A mature MJ should know that this doesn't produce anything but resentment and defensiveness in our visitors and members..Torah is about teaching and instructing, not condemning but on the other hand, I haven't seen it portrayed that way in here in a long time.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I no longer believe the myth that Churches are trying to assimilate Jews into denying our heritage, or that my full participation in the Messianic (aka Christian) community is somehow a slur on or rejection of my own (actual, birthright) Jewish heritage. Rather, I see a false dilemma being presented to honest people looking for answers by people who find life in the Body of Christ too challenging and would rather walk their own individual course.

Sincerly, it often seems a bit odd whenever Gentiles talk of not wanting to be assimilating when saying that they don't want to be connected to Christianity...as most Jews often wonder why Gentiles would even use the term "assimilate" when they never really had the same kind of battle as the Jews did with assimilation since they are already in a majority---and are trying to live out a lifestyle that was never something apart of their ethnic heritage in the first place (i.e. Jewish culture). It'd be like Caucasians going into a African-American church and discussing how it's messed up that other blacks don't agree with them and that they're tired of other blacks in the Black church trying to ensure that they (Caucasian) are assimilated into the White church when the Black Church was a minority one....for it was never their battle primarily.

The only ones really needing to be concerned with assimilation are those that are Jewish believers, IMHO.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I don't know how many are aware of what's called the New Perspective on Paul but it's an interesting and convincing perspective. In general most Christian theology is based on Pauline epistle's with a misunderstanding of Paul. This misunderstanding is centered around texts such as 1 Corinth 9:20. The likes of Nanos provides good stuff what Paul meant and makes convincing that Paul was always Torah observant but has been misunderstood that he wasn't based on 1 Corinth 9:20 as well as other texts.

The misunderstanding of Paul is the result of Christian theology.

I have been a proponent of this misunderstanding in other forums. This is my opinion. A lot of believers resist this because their theology is based on Paul and if Paul was Torah observant that means I as a believer have to be Torah observant like Paul. But that isn't the point of the New Perspective anyway. The jist is a Jew like Paul was Torah observant and able to do so in ministering and preaching the Gospel to non Jews. He didn't become like a Gentile and broke the commandments so he could relate to them and preach the Gospel.

An example would be Paul calling out Peter when Peter got up from among the Gentiles when Peter saw the Jews from Judea. Most believers believe that Peter was eating unclean foods. You can eat with Gentiles and not break Lev 11 right? I mean Cornelius being in the synagogue would have known not to serve Peter contrary to Lev 11 right? Why isn't it possible that Peter and Paul could have ate and fellow shipped with Gentiles without transgressing?

Quote from Wright; "When Saul became a Christian, Wright contends, he maintained the Jewish shape of his doctrine, but filled it with new content. The zeal of Saul the Pharisee was now the zeal of Paul the Apostle; God’s covenant faithfulness (righteousness) with regard to the covenant people was indeed fulfilled, in the death and resurrection of Jesus the Messiah.



A Summary of the New Perspective on Paul | The Paul Page

The New Perspective from Paul is one that is indeed very interesting to consider.....and NT Wright has some good thoughts to share on the issue.

On a side note, as much as the forum has been going through changes, I'm glad that there really hasn't been as much "Anti-Paul" or Paul bashing occurring like it was last year when many (in the name of being Messianic) would denounce him and say he wasn't truly Jewish enough for his stances toward Gentiles.

For more info on the man, as another said best:

N.T. Wright is part of a movement among scholars that is sometimes called the “New Perspective on Paul.” In this movement you’ll find a wide range of opinion on many things as well as plenty of internal disagreement. But all the scholars connected with this New Perspective see Paul differently than he has been interpreted by Lutheran and Reformed theologians for the past few centuries. And this, as you might imagine, has stirred up the pot.

The New Perspective comes, on the one hand, from an effort to understand more accurately the Judaism of Paul’s own day, as well as the passages in Paul’s letters where he sounds quite positive about the Jewish Law (Philippians 3:5-6, for example, where Paul says he was “as to righteousness under the law, blameless.&#8221 On the other hand, advocates of the New Perspective attempt to read Paul in light of his own issues and concerns, rather than in light of historic Protestant issues and concerns. They see Paul as much more interested in the problem of the Jewish and Gentile relationship in the covenant than Martin Luther’s struggle with his own guilt. In the New Perspective, certain key tenets of Protestantism, such as “justification” become revised. “Justification by faith” continues to be a key Pauline and theological concept, but it doesn’t bear the weight that it has within classic Protestant and Reformed theology.

Some of the Reformed and evangelical critics of N.T. Wright have blasted him with language usually reserved for the worst of heretics. They see him as undermining, not only Protestantism, but also the core of Christian orthodoxy. In an astounding move, one denomination has threatened its pastors with explusion if they adopt the New Perspective. Other of Wright’s critics are less inflammatory and dogmatic, but they nevertheless express great concern about his New Perspective reading of Paul.

I’ve been surprised by some of the arguments used against Wright’s exegesis of Paul. One of the common lines is that Wright has abandoned the Reformation’s view of Paul and justification by faith. Even if this were true, and I think it’s a bit of an exaggeration, I find it curious that Wright’s effort to go back to the Bible rather than endorse Reformation theology receives such scorn from the very people who base everything on going back to the Bible (or at least they used to). Isn’t sola scriptura at the base of the Reformation? Wouldn’t it be contrary to the very spirit of the Reformation to demand that theologians echo Reformation doctrine rather than going back to Scripture itself? It’s certainly true that Wright may have misinterpreted Paul. But we aren’t going to know this by quoting Luther and Calvin, or even by using extra-biblical theological language (like “imputed righteousness&#8221. Rather, the Reformation itself sends us back to the Scripture itself. If N.T. Wright is wrong about Paul, then this needs to be demonstrated by the same kind of exegesis that he has practiced so assiduously.

Another common argument against Wright’s view of Paul is that it doesn’t support powerful evangelical preaching. Again, I think this argument substantially misreads Wright, but even if it’s true, does it miss the main point? Those who worry that Wright’s view of Paul might undermine preaching is perilously close to an “end-justifies-the-means” argument, rather than an argument that upholds the truth of Scripture no matter what the implications. Once more, the question that matters above all else is whether Wright’s reading of Scripture is true or not. If, in the end, we must change our preaching, so be it. Yet I’m quite confident that the truth will lead to powerful preaching, whether that truth is ultimately consistent with traditional interpretations of Paul or not.
​

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I tend to think that others such as N.T Wright are very spot on when it comes to the subject of what's known as New Perspectives on Paul. .....and I'd probably go with his view on how to interpret Paul more than others. One can go here for more as well, if interested. One can also go here or HERE.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I think what they are asking is we each forgive each other and start from a new beginning much as the L-rd allows us to do after being forgiven of our own trespasses.

HE forgives us more than "70 x 7." Should we not forgive both posters and mods at least that many times since that, too, is a Mitzvah?

b'Shalom {iPod touch w/CF app}

Most of what we debate on will be squarred away on Judgement day, although it'd be wild if many were of the mindset that they don't want to sit by certain people in Heaven due to disagreements that occurred here

 

[Gxg (G²)]

After believing on Yeshua, it took several years to realize the Protestant was for Protest, and breaking from the RCC.

I don't see myself as Protestant.

But I also don't see myself as breaking away from Judaism. Judaism believes in the Messiah, but are still waiting for him. I think we missed Him, as Yeshua is the Messiah. Had Judaism recognized Yeshua the Messiah, then all of Judaism would be Messianic Judaism.

I also don't see myself as breaking away from Christianity. In the sense of the body of Messiah, born again believers, Messianic Jews are Christians. Messianic and Christian are synonyms. Messianic is more Jewish, and Christian is more Gentile. .

In light of what was said on how MJism is connected to the Protestant camp, I was also thinking of the ways it is apart of the Catholic as well as Orthodox camps as well..concerning those MJish camps that do not desire to break away from Christianity (and have never seen the need to) or Judaism since they see the two as interconnected...and yet feel that certain camps within Christendom such as the Catholics or Eastern Christian/Orthodox are what Judaism is connected with.

 

[Tishri1]

What I don't understand is why some, not all on this forum; cannot take a stance that there are others all along the road of observance - share your view and move on if you disagree. There are AMICABLE ways to talk about what I believe and what You believe, and what s/he believes and they do... without it ever becoming anything other than thinking and working positively with those facts.

Sure the MJAA does xzy, and the UCMJ does abc and BSS in Germany does def and IAMCS does ghi and so and so does zbeh... when it comes to the forum, we COULD discuss that without everyone getting their underoos in a wad. It's where we all as adults have to move past our hurts, our baggage and just decide to either not discuss, or bow out before things get too heated.

I believe at this point it might be beneficial for us to just take any debate off the table and work on fellowship, and then perhaps we can bring it back.

Some of this comes down to personality types, but most of this has to do with the dynamic that has changed with some of our newer posters and older posters. I know it doesn't look like I've been here a long time, but I was here under my old username for quite a while and know most everyone here, even if some do not remember me.
The forum WAS doing much better when I rejoined than I had seen it in a long, long time. However, there's been some fur flying as of late that has seen several valuable posters leave.

I've wondered if perhaps working through some books together that are bible study and/or church and messianic history together might mend some of this brokenness, and also if perhaps some rules in place that help change our paradigm and way of thinking of/about others might assist us all.

But, there is so much "you" and "I" accusatory statements that I wonder if anyone could possibly step outside of their comfort zones and walk a few miles in each others shoes and still come out amicably agreeing to disagree or if it would just make it all worse...

QFT and GREAT ideas!^^^

 

[Tishri1]

As my friend says: You should always try and walk a few miles in someone elses' shoes...by that time you are a miles from them and they don't have any shoes, so it's their problem!



(Sorry to make light of that phrase - couldn't resist. But you are right!)

Lol that was funny