Spiritual warfare vs demonology

[DogmaHunter]

I believe sleep paralysis is caused by demons based on my own and many others experiences.

Why?
Are you aware that, while still relatively little is known on the condition, that it is well known that it oftenly also comes with hallucinations?

I and many others have had success casting these demons away in the name of Jesus.

Many others woke up without "invoking" any kind of supernatural stuff.
So how did you conclude that you waking up, was the result of calling upon Jesus?

I was especially bold and fearless in casting this one away and it left quicker than usual.

It is well known that if you are aware of the situation, that it is sleep paralysis, your fear level can drop to near zero. And when that happens, you usually wake up more easily.

The thing is that the phenomena itself, the muscle paralysis, is something that happens during rem sleep. If that wouldn't occur, you'ld be physically performing (some of) the movements you perform in your dreams.

So while it is mostly unknown what causes the condition, it seems extremely likely that it is something that's going wrong with that REM sleep paralysis...

Essentially, when combined with the fact that it also tends to come with hallucinations, it is quite likely that during accute periods, you are in some kind of limbo between awake and in deep sleep. So what you experience at that moment is a combination of dreams (= the hallucinations) and actual reality. The paralysis, is then simply one of the things that is still in "sleep mode".

There are quite a few processes at work in our bodies that regulate "sleep mode". If only half of them acts as if you are awake, weird stuff's gonna happen...

So I would say that we need to understand the enemy

I would say that in this particular example you gave, you haven't established that there is an enemy to begin with. In fact, in this case, there most likely isn't.

 

[ActivatedAlmond]

Why?
Are you aware that, while still relatively little is known on the condition, that it is well known that it oftenly also comes with hallucinations?



Many others woke up without "invoking" any kind of supernatural stuff.
So how did you conclude that you waking up, was the result of calling upon Jesus?



It is well known that if you are aware of the situation, that it is sleep paralysis, your fear level can drop to near zero. And when that happens, you usually wake up more easily.

The thing is that the phenomena itself, the muscle paralysis, is something that happens during rem sleep. If that wouldn't occur, you'ld be physically performing (some of) the movements you perform in your dreams.

So while it is mostly unknown what causes the condition, it seems extremely likely that it is something that's going wrong with that REM sleep paralysis...



I would say that in this particular example you gave, you haven't established that there is an enemy to begin with. In fact, in this case, there most likely isn't.

I have a few reasons to believe it's caused by demons, but tbh I have no desire to discuss them with an atheist who for some reason spends his free time patrolling Christian forums on the internet refuting Christian claims and wouldn't believe anything I said anyways because you would just dismiss it as hallucinations. It's a waste of time imo. Your experience in life and mine are probably completely different I'm sure. Maybe one day you'll experience something like this, maybe you won't

And I was talking about understanding Satan in general, not just in my experiences with what I have perceived to be demons (both in sleep paralysis and elsewhere)

 

[loveofourlord]

I have a few reasons to believe it's caused by demons, but tbh I have no desire to discuss them with an atheist who for some reason spends his free time patrolling Christian forums on the internet refuting Christian claims and wouldn't believe anything I said anyways because you would just dismiss it as hallucinations. It's a waste of time imo. Your experience in life and mine are probably completely different I'm sure. Maybe one day you'll experience something like this, maybe you won't

And I was talking about understanding Satan in general, not just in my experiences with what I have perceived to be demons (both in sleep paralysis and elsewhere)

thing is claiming these things are by demons, and such lead to problems and abuse, you have people with mental disorders, or other problems treated as demon posessed or attacked by demons ignoring real conditions that have medical explanations and ways to help. I think it's extremly dangerous to start labeling things as demons and such when it's not nescarily that. I find all too often certain people are too quick to put a supernatural explantion for something natural.

we know what they are, it's as explained above, not night hags, demons, witches or aliens or what ever is the prefered explanation at the time. There is no reason to dragon super natural into something it's not.

 

[ActivatedAlmond]

thing is claiming these things are by demons, and such lead to problems and abuse, you have people with mental disorders, or other problems treated as demon posessed or attacked by demons ignoring real conditions that have medical explanations and ways to help. I think it's extremly dangerous to start labeling things as demons and such when it's not nescarily that. I find all too often certain people are too quick to put a supernatural explantion for something natural.

we know what they are, it's as explained above, not night hags, demons, witches or aliens or what ever is the prefered explanation at the time. There is no reason to dragon super natural into something it's not.

Well you have your belief and I have mine. I see nothing dangerous about using Jesus' name to get rid of sleep paralysis seeing how in my case and many other people's experience it gets rid of it much faster, almost instantly. I don't see why you would believe that demons are incapable of attacking people in their sleep while being a Christian, but hey, that's your belief. Just curious, do you believe in demons or angels at all? Do you dismiss all suspected demonic attacks as a product of bodily functions and chemical reactions in the brain?

And you say it's explained above, yet he admits that sleep paralysis is poorly understood. If you choose to believe in that theory then that's your right. And I'm sure there have been times where something resembling a demonic attack and/or sleep paralysis has just been a bad dream caused by sleep patterns. But in my experience I've seen enough to believe that it's demonic in nature. I was already aware of the medical explanations for sleep paralysis after looking into it after the first time experiencing it by the way, I just think there's more going on in a lot of cases. And nothing could really convince me otherwise, just like I don't expect to convince you of my point of view

 

[Francis Drake]

thing is claiming these things are by demons, and such lead to problems and abuse, you have people with mental disorders, or other problems treated as demon posessed or attacked by demons ignoring real conditions that have medical explanations and ways to help. I think it's extremly dangerous to start labeling things as demons and such when it's not nescarily that. I find all too often certain people are too quick to put a supernatural explantion for something natural.

we know what they are, it's as explained above, not night hags, demons, witches or aliens or what ever is the prefered explanation at the time. There is no reason to dragon super natural into something it's not.

Its a pity that Jesus and the disciples didn't have your wisdom and psycho knowledge before they did all that foolish deliverance in the NT.
I guess that all those people back then who got healed when their demons were cast out only imagined it.

You worry about abuse caused by interpreting mental disorders as demonic. Given that deliverance in these cases might possibly represent 1 in 100,000 of all those being treated, you conveniently ignore the other 99,999 who

have been subjected to drugs abuse and other treatments at the hands of the psychobabble profession. ​

 

[Antig]

Yes, put on the armour of God. Protect yourself. But, flee from all evil with God in your Heart and soul.

 

[Petros2015]

Armour of God. Yes. Protect yourself. Pray, stay Holy. Stay clear of all evil. Run from evil dont persue it. Turn from evil ways etc. No need for combat if you are true in your faith and love of God. God will protect you!

 

[DogmaHunter]

I have a few reasons to believe it's caused by demons, but tbh I have no desire to discuss them with an atheist who for some reason spends his free time patrolling Christian forums on the internet refuting Christian claims and wouldn't believe anything I said anyways because you would just dismiss it as hallucinations. It's a waste of time imo. Your experience in life and mine are probably completely different I'm sure. Maybe one day you'll experience something like this, maybe you won't

You are correct in that I don't care in what you believe.
But I do care about people who spread misinformation, especially when it concerns health issues.

That sleep paralysis comes with hallucination, often "evil" in nature due to the fact that it's scary experience if you don't know what is going on, is a fact.

That people also eventually wake up "fully" is also a fact.
Your post implies that your correlation of appealing to Jesus, is evidence of a causal link between the appeal and the waking up.

I get that this thread isn't about that.
Nonetheless, I feel it's productive to point out that the idea you present here, is extremely unlikely to be accurate and in fact, doesn't hold up at all against what we actually know about this particular phenomena.

 

[DogmaHunter]

And you say it's explained above, yet he admits that sleep paralysis is poorly understood

As in: how it is caused and how to prevent it.
But what it is, is another story.

And what it is, is sleep regulating processes going out of whack. Not demons casting spells on your muscles.

But in my experience I've seen enough to believe that it's demonic in nature. I was already aware of the medical explanations for sleep paralysis after looking into it after the first time experiencing it by the way, I just think there's more going on in a lot of cases.

Why do you think that?
I'm genuinly curious. Don't deny me an answer because of the "atheist" label please.

And nothing could really convince me otherwise

Really?

Not even if science figures out exactly what it is and develops a pil, vaccine, therapy, whatever, which prevents it from happening altogether?

Not even then?

 

[DogmaHunter]

Its a pity that Jesus and the disciples didn't have your wisdom and psycho knowledge before they did all that foolish deliverance in the NT.
I guess that all those people back then who got healed when their demons were cast out only imagined it.

You worry about abuse caused by interpreting mental disorders as demonic. Given that deliverance in these cases might possibly represent 1 in 100,000 of all those being treated, you conveniently ignore the other 99,999 who

have been subjected to drugs abuse and other treatments at the hands of the psychobabble profession. ​

Just curious.... where did you pull that "1 in 100.000" from? Did you invent it on the spot, by any chance?

 

[RDKirk]

Come to think of it, this is the wrong forum for this question. It has nothing to do with ethics and morality.

 

[Francis Drake]

Do you genuinely believe in demons and evil spirits?

Having seen the effect of demonic oppression on someone, and then seen the changes to them when the demons are cast out, I would be a fool not believe in demons or evil spirits.

I can't see the wind, but I have enough evidence to know when the wind is blowing.
I have also learned the difference between a light breeze, a strong wind, a gale, and a hurricane, all despite the wind remaining completely invisible.

Very occasionally, I have seen the demon itself.

 

[Francis Drake]

Just curious.... where did you pull that "1 in 100.000" from? Did you invent it on the spot, by any chance?

Yup, I invented it completely.
I put it there to illustrate a point to the previous poster.
How many people have you come across who have undergone deliverance from demons?

 

[Dave-W]

Well then, tell me how you go about casting out demons.

Command them to leave in the Name of Jesus. (but you actually have to BELIEVE in Jesus)

How do you identify these demons?

That is done by a gift of the Spirit; Discerning of Spirits (see 1 Corinthians 12)

Have you ever set eyes on one of these demons?

As they are invisible, No. But some people can occasionally get a glimpse of them (maybe God allows them to actually see into the spiritual realm)

 

[Francis Drake]

Command them to leave in the Name of Jesus. (but you actually have to BELIEVE in Jesus)

That is done by a gift of the Spirit; Discerning of Spirits (see 1 Corinthians 12)

As they are invisible, No. But some people can occasionally get a glimpse of them (maybe God allows them to actually see into the spiritual realm)

Amen, amen, and amen.

 

[Francis Drake]

Many many years ago in our home group we had a married couple, and the lady's mother was very elderly and lived with them in a granny flat.

The elderly lady was chronically sick much of the time with a long list of ailments and our friends would often come in asking for prayer.

The old lady was a believer and very tired and really just wanted to go home to be with the Lord. She more feared living on in ill health than dying.

At one home group meeting, as often the case, the husband came in announcing that his wife was visiting her mother again in the hospital and would be arriving later. Again could we pray, particularly that the Lord would take her home instead of leaving her in pain.

This time, I suggested that rather than just praying, we ought to ask the Lord for discernment as to what was actually going on here, as our prayers were not being answered.

So we asked for discernment, and then waited for the Lord to answer. After a few minutes, I saw a picture/vision. In the spirit, could clearly see a human heart, but it had a really evil black entity completely surrounding and enclosing it. This evil entity was pumping away keeping the blood flowing like a heart massager!

I described what I had seen to the group for confirmation. It seemed very clear to everyone that this evil demon, by simply pumping her old and otherwise failing heart,

was keeping the old lady alive and in constant torment.​

I then stood up and pointed at the demon I had seen in the vision. I simply said, "In the name of Jesus, I take authority over you evil spirit that's pumping Janet's heart, and I command you let her go and to get out of her right now."

That was all we did and the meeting continued much as usual.

About ten minutes later the phone rang and I answered. It was the old lady's daughter. "Can you tell Dick that mum has just died."
I asked when it had happened, "Ten minutes ago." she replied.

At the precise moment we commanded it to go, her elderly mother was released from the demonic bondage that had kept her in horrible pain for years. Just as she had asked, she went home to the Lord that night.

 

[loveofourlord]

Yup, I invented it completely.
I put it there to illustrate a point to the previous poster.
How many people have you come across who have undergone deliverance from demons?

it's a meaningless statistic, from my own experience, what wakes someone out of lucid dreaming is doing something conciously, like a act, wouldn't be surprised if it might not be the same with sleep paralysis.

My concern is, i believe demons exist and such, but when you start making defintive statements about things that an't going to always be demons your doing far far FAR more harm. this is the mentality I really dislike, "X is sometimes magick or super natural therefore it's always." The, I believe in faith healers, so I will follow anyone that can heal even if they are conmen scamming people.

And modern psychotherapy works far better then what we had in the past, where you just lock someone up, or call someone with various mental disorders demon posessed. Playing into someones delusion when they have issues isn't helping them. What if it's the other way around .01% of sleep paralysis is demons other 99.9% is real, or same with mental disorders, all your doing is harm.

 

[Par5]

There is another thread entitled, "Why do atheists believe Christians and religious are delusional?" Like this thread, there is a lot of talk regarding demons and I say this without any malice, but some of the posts from Christians on these two threads go a long way to explain why atheists think that Christians and the religious are delusional. Some of the posts read like the outline of the plot for the next Lord of the Rings movie. Pure fantasy!

 

[Lily of Valleys]

Come to think of it, this is the wrong forum for this question. It has nothing to do with ethics and morality.

Agreed. I think this thread would be better in a Christian-only subforum.

 

[Francis Drake]

it's a meaningless statistic, from my own experience, what wakes someone out of lucid dreaming is doing something conciously, like a act, wouldn't be surprised if it might not be the same with sleep paralysis.

I never mentioned dreaming or sleep paralysis.

My concern is, i believe demons exist and such, but when you start making defintive statements about things that an't going to always be demons your doing far far FAR more harm. this is the mentality I really dislike, "X is sometimes magick or super natural therefore it's always." The, I believe in faith healers, so I will follow anyone that can heal even if they are conmen scamming people.

Silly straw man argument.
If anyone is saying everything is "x" and making definitive statements its you with your absolute faith in psychobabble.
FYI, I have never followed faith healers nor do I advocate such. I only advocate that people believe what the scriptures say.

And modern psychotherapy works far better then what we had in the past, where you just lock someone up, or call someone with various mental disorders demon posessed. Playing into someones delusion when they have issues isn't helping them. What if it's the other way around .01% of sleep paralysis is demons other 99.9% is real, or same with mental disorders, all your doing is harm.

Again, I never mentioned sleep paralysis, nor have I encountered it.