Speaking of flags

[LostMarbels]

You're welcome, I guess.



Pretty much.



Correct.



Incorrect.

Since it is, as you stated, absolutely impossible to get pii from the census, legal status is irrelevant to the question. Absolutely impossible is absolutely impossible.



No, it wont. Because, to use your language again, it's absolutely impossible to do so.



That's not how it works, because that would be accessing the pii which you agreed at the top of this post was absolutely impossible.

ETA even if that was vaguely how it worked, it still cannot happen, because the only way anyone could get charged is if their pii was transferred to a law enforcement agency in strict violation of article 13.

If an illegal (or anyone) refuses to answer they broke the law. If they lie, they broke the law. At this point it has absolutely zero to do with the census. The Census Bureau can press formal charges for non-compliance. It now becomes a legal matter to handle the fine. It becomes the job of law enforcement investigators and or detectives. Further non compliance will bring further scrutiny up to bench warrants, and subpoenas, so on. Charges on a fake ID create new charges and investigations to find out who, and where that individual is.

I believe this is why people do not want the citizen question, and the Trump admin will pursue charges on illegals who lie. Best thing to do is check the box and just stay quiet. No one will ever get that info. But those who lie or refuse will be compelled by law and face other issues.

 

[Hank77]

People supporting democrats and the left are defacing american flags, raising the Mexican flag on US soil,

You don't know who those people support. All you know is that they oppose ICE facilities that hold people in horrible conditions.

opposing immigration enforcement,

Democrats do not oppose immigration enforcement. Obama deported more people than any other President and Democrats didn't complain.

fighting for open borders

Democrats do not want open borders. Obama built the same kind of fences/walls that are being built right now on the border. Democrats voted to finance those barriers. They also voted for surveillance equipment, border agents, etc.

want to ban ICE

Some Democrats have called for dissolving ICE but not the majority.

opening sanctuary cities

That's been going on since 1971. It's not something new with these Democrats.

debate for the Presidency of America speaking Spanish.

Everything was also said in English. So they weren't just catering to the Spanish speaking people.
I really don't understand anyone having a problem with this and I've tried.

 

[Tanj]

And just to clarify even further:

The current citizenship question would have involved a few versions of "am a citizen", and 1 "not a citizen" check box. Even if they added a "I am here illegally" checkbox, there's NOTHING anyone could do with that from an enforcement point of view. The census bureau is not allowed to share pi with other government agencies, including ICE.

The citizenship question planned for 2020 census: What to know

But the new question’s inclusion has been challenged in court on the grounds that it could cause many immigrants to skip the 2020 census out of fear their information could be used against them, even though it is illegal to share a person’s census responses with law enforcement or immigration agencies.

 

[Tanj]

If an illegal (or anyone) refuses to answer they broke the law. If they lie, they broke the law. At this point it has absolutely zero to do with the census.

It has everything to do with the census. Specifically, what information can or cannot be shared with other agencies.

The Census Bureau can press formal charges for non-compliance.

Indeed it can. However, "non-compliance" is entirely restricted to non-returned forms and missing answers to questions.

As I said above if they included an "are you here illegally" question, there's nothing actionable by law enforcement because the census cannot share their information.

It now becomes a legal matter to handle the fine. It becomes the job of law enforcement investigators and or detectives. Further non compliance will bring further scrutiny up to bench warrants, and subpoenas, so on. Charges on a fake ID create new charges and investigations to find out who, and where that individual is.

That's just not how it works. Article 13 is airtight. Being a criminal is not grounds for breaking the confidentiality.

I believe this is why people do not want the citizen question

And you are not alone. Many agree with you. All of you are, however, wrong.

and the Trump admin will pursue charges on illegals who lie

The Trump admin cannot do that because, for the umpteenth time, it is physically impossible for them to do so.

]Best thing to do is check the box and just stay quiet. No one will ever get that info. But those who lie or refuse will be compelled by law and face other issues.

lie no, refuse possibly. Tell the truth, also no.

 

[Hank77]

Or you can try to be slick and roll an entire cart full of absentee ballets down the hall.

What are you referring to? What do you mean by being slick?

 

[Hank77]

It happens often, but for one example you need check no further than the recount of the 2016 presidential election in Michigan which the Green Party candidate paid to have recounted--until such an overcount (a big one) was discovered in a Detroit precinct and they said nothing could be done to correct it.

I remember that. But I need something that shows it happens often.
I personally think some states don't take the precautions they should. I also think that federal election votes should be on a separate ballot from all other votes for cty, state, etc. And that a photo ID must be presented to vote in a federal election. If states don't want to require it the federal government should, especially if we were to go to a popular vote system.

 

[cow451]

They're okay. Since they're on the right side.

The stars are on the right or are the stars on the right?

 

[LostMarbels]

No information is shared. No information is shared. No information is shared. No information is shared. No information is shared. No information is shared. No information is shared. No information is shared.

Once more so that maybe you will see what I am saying here:
NONE OF THEIR INFORMATION IS SHARED
Non compliance and lying are illegal. Do I need to reiterate that none of their information is shared? Are we done yet with the shared info thing? Can we move on?

The Census Bureau can press formal charges for non-compliance and for lying on your form. They can impose fines that are enforced by law and law enforcement. NONE OF THEIR CENSUS INFORMATION IS SHARED but they can be brought up on charges. Once in the legal system other charges and consequences can be applied.

 

[Pommer]

but they can be brought up on charges.

You understand that this is civil law not criminal, right?

 

[LostMarbels]

You don't know who those people support. All you know is that they oppose ICE facilities that hold people in horrible conditions.

Not a single one of them voted republican or for Trump. Not. A. One. They are enacting liberal/left/democratic mantra, policies and ideals. This is what the Democratic party has become. Beating people in the streets, destroying and defacing property. Fear tactics. Doxing and hunting down those who do not agree with you. Banning dissenting voices. Throwing urine, feces, eggs, milkshakes and other objects at people. Socialism. Anti America. Anti capitalism. Anti straight. Anti male. Anti white. Anti anything that doesn't fit their own Paradigm.

Even if you personally do not commit these act these individuals are voting democratic. And that party will not denounce them. Not once.

Democrats do not oppose immigration enforcement. Obama deported more people than any other President and Democrats didn't complain.

Obama is not in office. I am speaking about those who are.

Democrats do not want open borders. Obama built the same kind of fences/walls that are being built right now on the border. Democrats voted to finance those barriers. They also voted for surveillance equipment, border agents, etc.

Obama is not in office. I am speaking about those who are.

Abolish ICE
Sanctuary cities
Make it legal to enter the county
Not open borders?

Some Democrats have called for dissolving ICE but not the majority.

The politicians not the citizens.

 

[LostMarbels]

You understand that this is civil law not criminal, right?

Why?

Why do you all have to make everything into an issue even when I understand why you do not want that question on the census?

 

[LostMarbels]

But the new question’s inclusion has been challenged in court on the grounds that it could cause many immigrants to skip the 2020 census out of fear their information could be used against them, even though it is illegal to share a person’s census responses with law enforcement or immigration agencies.

Yes I agree, and I understand why some do not want that question on the census. Because if they do not answer, or they lie they could face repercussions. Do not think for one second Trump would not use this to oust illegals. All I was saying is Trump doesn't even have to illegally use their census info. All he needs to do is press formal charges and fine them to get the ball rolling and get their name on a docket.

 

[Tanj]

Yes I agree, and I understand why some do not want that question on the census. Because if they do not answer, or they lie they could face repercussions.

And if they told the truth they couldn't.

Do not think for one second Trump would not use this to oust illegals.

He can't. I mean, I agree he probably would like to, but he can't do it. There's no legal way to access the census data.

All I was saying is Trump doesn't even have to illegally use their census info. All he needs to do is press formal charges and fine them to get the ball rolling and get their name on a docket.

Press formal charges against who for what? Also, the ball ends with a fine. There's no dounwstream action because....the census bureau cannot share it's data with other agencies.

How many times do I have to repeat it? You have already agreed to it. You called it "absolutely impossible".

I'll repeat an earlier point again. If there was a question on the census that read "are you here illegally" and someone ticked the "yes" box, there's no action that can be taken against them...unless someone can show it's a lie.

If the citizenship question was on the census all someone has to do is answer it truthfully, and that's the end of that.

Why don't you start by outlining the steps taken to determine if someone lied on the census form. What does that look like, exactly? Remember the census bureau cannot share it's data, so there's no inter agency checking, no background check, no id check no SS check, no IRS check, no visa check, no birth/death/marriages check. Exactly what resources are you using to see if someone lied?

 

[Sparagmos]

Hey, thanks! I was getting bored with only being a racist Nazi. Haven't been a self-centered, hypocritical, and divisive xenophobe in quite some time now.

I have no issues with immigration. I have issue with illegal aliens having more rights than citizens, (including those who are nationalized) and forced replacement migration.



Then why the outcry about asking if your an American? I was lead to believe that line of questioning was voter intimidation.



"alienated every natural-born American that was raised in this country to speak English"

Not Spanish. Not Greek.

"alienated every natural-born American that was raised in this country to speak English"



And I do not want to end up having to. Why is that hard to understand?



Im not upset at all. I think it is great optics for the republicans to be honest. It's just when they spoke in Spanish they made it known to whom they are speaking. I don't think they care about Americans any longer.

When in doubt, just double down, huh?

It’s always interesting to see what’s bouncing around in that head of yours.

 

[LostMarbels]

@Tanj Why are you fixated on census data when I have told you repeatedly that is not what I am saying?

 

[Sparagmos]

Yes, but how can you accurately account if it is citizens voting, if you cannot ask if they are a citizen? Yet only citizens can vote....

Marbles, you are sorely misinformed.

 

[Sparagmos]

What fail-safe do you have to check if the voter-logs are correct? If you gave 200 eligible and 200 votes was it a 100% turnout or did illegals vote? Without a proper census you cannot check for people that are ineligible due to citizenship.

What is the fail-safe to check if the census is correct? Why do you have faith in the census, in which people self-report and are not required to provide any citizenship documents, and a voter registration which requires you to provide proof of citizenship?

 

[LostMarbels]

Marbles, you are sorely misinformed.

Explain. How do we check to see if illegals are not placed into the system. Not voters at the booth only, but also absentee ballets?

 

[Arcangl86]

I was a Census Enumerator last Census. We were told outright that the only question that was required to be answered was the number of people.

 

[LostMarbels]

I was a Census Enumerator last Census. We were told outright that the only question that was required to be answered was the number of people.

Please forgive me, but this is the internet. You could be anyone that does anything. I would be more than thankful if you have any insight to share, however can you please cite some source?