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South Africa votes to confiscate white-owned land without compensation

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by Trogdor the Burninator, Feb 28, 2018.

  1. HannahT

    HannahT Newbie Supporter

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    That's how some of our friends that came to visit this country felt as well, and then once they were here a while tended to view things a bit different. Sounds like the media is doing this job. lol that's how they want to paint it! I had no idea until they pointed this out to what extreme it was though. I figured it was shewed a bit, but I had no idea to what extent. Honestly? I think we were both surprised. I mean you have expect some of it.

    Our friends again - whom would be considered minorities here - felt many of the groups that felt victimized here didn't know how good they had in considering the rest of the world. They do indeed have a very narrow view of things, and our friends felt didn't appreciate what they had. They were quite surprised at the amount of minorities that had seats of power, business, etc. How that is quite different where they live.

    I didn't find that all that surprising when you look at the size and population of the country, and when you realize most aren't exposed to other cultures like many others in the world. People can be manipulated into believing a lot of stuff when you have nothing else to compare it too. We border two countries and two large bodies of water, and most don't even leave the country at all in their lifes. That's all they know.

    On the other hand, my aunt and uncle who were missionaries and lived all over the globe for years also saw Americans had the wrong views of other places on this globe too. I guess 'how it really is' tends to go both ways. People only see what the media shows them, and feel that's just how it is. Then are surprised when they actually have to live there/visit there. It kind of makes sense when you think about it.

    We have a gentleman on a public television station that does travel books/Tv Shows for different parts of the world, and when he speaks - he mentions these differences. He said it was more so in the past, and I'm sure part of it changed when he would point things out in his books and shows - and spoke about his early days giving travel tours. He would purposely expose his guests to things they wouldn't see on the normal tours, and showed out beautifully different and unique we all are.
     
  2. Radagast

    Radagast comes and goes Supporter

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    One of the factors was that Bantu settlement had a southern border, because traditional Bantu crops would not grow in the near-Mediterranean climate of southern South Africa. The Cape area of South Africa was instead (fairly thinly) populated by Khoisan people. AFAIK, the Khoisan people were never actually enslaved: the VOC brought in slaves from India and Indonesia instead (that doesn't mean that the Khoisan were treated well). The Khoisan, slaves, and whites intermarried to form what is now called the "Coloured" population. These people don't consider themselves "black," and don't support the ruling ANC.

    Another factor was that some Bantu chiefs, such as Mbandzeni, actually sold large tracts of land to the Boers. Often, payment was partly in return for military help. In cases where tribe A sold land in return for support against tribe B, there is some controversy as to whether the land being sold actually belonged to tribe A in the first place -- it's a bit hard to tell, more than a century later. But certainly some white farmers can make a strong case for being truly entitled to the land they're farming.
     
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  3. Rion

    Rion Annuit Cœptis Supporter

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    Excuse moi?

    Schumer accused of voting against a nominee due to his skin color

    :whistle:
     
  4. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Aside from the shrinking number of moderate Republicans, I don't think the Right in the US is committed to liberal democracy any longer. They sort of parted ways with that when they signed on the Religious Right in the 80's. Whereas at least the Left in the US gives ear service to those ideals.
     
  5. Rion

    Rion Annuit Cœptis Supporter

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    I don't see what that has to do with your previous comment, but I wasn't asking for you to defend your opinion on the right. I was asking you to defend your opinion on the left. The progressives/Democrats in the United States absolutely do use racist rhetoric in the manner you ascribed solely to the right, and the also absolutely DO NOT believe in liberal democracy. While the farther right seems to support an oligarchy, the farther left seem to be aiming for a form of totalitarianism.
     
  6. durangodawood

    durangodawood Dis Member

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    Minimum wage is a good example.

    Individual justice has your name on it. Its about the particulars of your life and what you personally owe, or are owed. Social justice has no ones name on it.

    Social justice is what a whole population is owed regardless of the specifics any any one persons life.

    Ultimately, these are all "justice". But the differences in how they play out merit distinct categories, I'd say. Social justice is political in a way that individual justice rarely is. Think slavery abolition, or rebellion against a colonizer.
     
  7. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Not many think of how they will get their next meal, especially in countries ruled by despots or tyranny of the masses. Unfortunately, fallen human nature allows for revenge and hate to fill their bellies before thinking about the mid to long term effects.
     
  8. Radagast

    Radagast comes and goes Supporter

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    "Individual justice" was not a category I was using, and it's not a category that I've heard lawyers use either. I was distinguishing justice based on the law from "social justice."

    Here in Australia, the minimum wage was certainly very much in the first category. The question arose as to what "fair and reasonable wages" meant, a judge decided it meant 7 shillings per day or more, and that then established a precedent. That was justice based on the law.

    "Social justice," in contrast, is extra-legal. It penalises actions which are not actually against the law, and the penalties are typically applied not by the courts, but by boycotts, protests, private companies, etc. "Social justice" is never achieved, because the activists never pack up and go home. They just keep introducing new demands.
     
  9. MoonlessNight

    MoonlessNight Fides et Ratio

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    At this point it doesn't really matter, since things happened so long ago.

    If you want to go that far back you'd have to get into which African tribes conquered which other tribes before and even after colonization.
     
  10. durangodawood

    durangodawood Dis Member

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    I agree that social justice typically operates in advance of the law.

    South Africa, the topic, was a perfect example. For so long, horrible unjust racism was the law. And so resistance to it could hardly be applied by the courts, which must operate within the law. Instead resistance took the form of the various methods of social justice activism you list, plus actual civil disobedience law breaking.
     
  11. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    Is that meant as a joke?
     
  12. PeaceByJesus

    PeaceByJesus Unworthy servant for the Worthy Lord + Savior

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    Interesting: Also known as the "Paisley snail"[5][6] or "snail in the bottle" case, the facts involved Mrs Donoghue drinking a bottle of ginger beer in a café in Paisley, Renfrewshire. A dead snail was in the bottle. She fell ill, and she sued the ginger beer manufacturer, Mr Stevenson. The House of Lords held that the manufacturer owed a duty of care to her, which was breached, because it was reasonably foreseeable that failure to ensure the product's safety would lead to harm of consumers.

    Prior to Donoghue v Stevenson liability for personal injury in tort usually depended upon showing physical damage inflicted directly (trespass to the person) or indirectly (trespass on the case). Being made ill by consuming a noxious substance did not qualify as either, so the orthodox view was that Mrs Donoghue had no sustainable claim in law. However, the decision fundamentally created a new type of liability in law which did not depend upon any previously recognised category of tortious claims. This was an evolutionary step in the common law for tort and delict, moving from strict liability based upon direct physical contact to a fault-based system which only required injury. This evolution was taken further in the later decision of Letang v Cooper [1965] 1 QB 232 when it was held that actions should not be jointly pleaded in trespass and negligence, but in negligence alone.

    How would this correspond to Biblical jurisprudence, in which negligence that resulted in injury was punished, such as not covering a pit and having to pay damages if an animal fell in and died? (Exodus 21:33)

    Extrapolation based upon precept and principal is part of judicial judgments.
     
  13. PeaceByJesus

    PeaceByJesus Unworthy servant for the Worthy Lord + Savior

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    And also, contrary to at least one here who argued that the known purpose for which something is specially provided does not implicate the provider as a guilty party, one can be guilty by knowingly being an accomplice.
     
  14. He is Risen 72

    He is Risen 72 Colossians 2:14 The Law is nailed to the Cross!!

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    The white genocide worked out so well for Zimbabwe, I am sure that the ANC will be just as good farmers if not better than the whites and in a few years, South Africa will be the world’s bread basket.
     
  15. MoonlessNight

    MoonlessNight Fides et Ratio

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    And if they do not develop into the world's bread basket, that only goes to show that the whites sabotaged them and stole their harvests.
     
  16. Radagast

    Radagast comes and goes Supporter

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    Many principles of English law are influenced by the Bible.
     
  17. CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

    CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN I'm praying for my dad to get well.

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    African Americans in America I can see. But Africa sold black people. I don't see why Africans would seek revenge on white people in Africa.
     
  18. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    Sure...I was just trying to point out the few legitimate examples of collective guilt. None of these really fit the social justice narrative of collective guilt.
     
  19. Redac

    Redac Regular Member

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    You don't see why they might seek revenge on people they view as thieves, colonizers, and oppressors? Really?
     
  20. PeaceByJesus

    PeaceByJesus Unworthy servant for the Worthy Lord + Savior

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    Where I am the poor among whom I am privileged to live are only poor in relative terms, and being a minority can be an advantage to obtaining government jobs and help, especially it seems for those who choose to have children with no (reported) live-in husband.

    It is amazing how the organic NT church of Acts 2-6 operated so efficaciously with no government welfare.

    Increasingly expansion and reliance upon an inefficient and often unpredictable state, which can penalize the politically incorrect, is to be avoided by Christians.

    Here in the USA SS was and is a good thing, except that the pols could not resist using the money to get themselves elected by using the funds for issues which it was not intended for. Politicians in general who claim to be concerned for the poor use the money of others, but are millionaires who give little themselves percentage-wise.

    Meanwhile, nowhere in your list of "social justice" (which often should be termed "mercy" and "grace" rather than "justice") causes do i see any concern or priority to the poorest of the world, as in Africa, and the persecuted Christians, such as in militant Muslim and Communist countries, and other places, which evangelical ministries (such as Barnabas Aid, Persecution Project, Voice of the Martyrs, Samaritan's Purse, etc.) work to help. Far more efficiently than any gov. agency.
     
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