South Africa votes to confiscate white-owned land without compensation

[Radagast]

I thought a lot of white South Africans emigrated to your country and New Zealand.

They did. But farmers can't take their land with them.

 

[Radagast]

Thats precisely what social justice means: justice for a population.

As opposed to individual justice: trying a particular criminal, or seeking compensation for a wrong done to you personally.

In what way is justice for a population different from justice for all the individual members of a population?

For example, when Australia first introduced a minimum wage in 1907, that wasn't "social justice," that was just plain "justice" -- a judge ruling on the law as it applied to all the employers and all the workers. Specifically, he ruled that the words "fair and reasonable wages" meant at least seven shillings per day.

More broadly, any individual case in English or English-derived law sets a precedent applying to the whole population. That's why the "snail in the bottle" case was so important, for example.

 

[redleghunter]

That, and they are terrified that, if actual equality were achieved, women would treat men as badly as men have treated women, and/or black people would treat white people as badly as white people have treated black people.

It's mostly just fear. Fear and an unadmitted conviction of their own superiority.

If the lands are being confiscated then it would be beyond fear.

 

[redleghunter]

They did. But farmers can't take their land with them.

Understand given the farmers are not being compensated.

 

[Liza B.]

Whatever you might think of race relations in South Africa, this certainly looks like another step towards becoming a failed state. Rampant crime that can't be controlled, a corrupt ex-PM who has stolen tens of millions, a city of roughly half a million people runs out of water and now, farms will likely go the same way as Zimbabwe leading to food shortages

Time for a lot of people to get out.

 

[Liza B.]

I know this is super unpopular to say, but perhaps they should get over it. What good is justice if it tears the nation apart? What use is revenge that causes you to starve?

I think they need to have a brutally honest conversation about race.

Revenge is a bitter pill that poisons its host first. "Vengeance is mine," says the Lord, "I will repay". Wise words. Best to leave it to Him. It's really, really bad for us.

 

[Liza B.]

How do you think they got to that situation in South Africa?

Identity politics, tribalism, a culture of victimhood, prioritizing race...the exact same methods you see in the U.S. and Australia. I don't know how much of it your nation has seen...but we've started to get the social justice advocates who call for white genocide, who claim white DNA is an abomination, who think whites should give up their homes, land, even their inheritances to blacks. Why? Because history...it doesn't matter if no whites today participated in slavery...they're white so in some way or another, they benefited from it. It doesn't matter if no blacks alive today were ever enslaved...in some way or another, they're oppressed by it.

It's not just similar Paid....it's the same thing.

Chuck Schumer said just today our next Supreme Court Justice should be the right color or gender. Forget about qualifications. All that matters is Identity.

We've gone insane.

 

[Liza B.]

"Social justice" almost always runs counter to actual justice. That's why the adjective "social" is needed, to distinguish the two.

When the Harvester judgement in Australia established minimum wage laws, that was actual justice. A judge enforced a law requiring "fair and reasonable" wages to be paid.

But if I confiscate money from a "target group" (such as Jews, or white people) on the grounds of "social justice," it's theft. Even if I am, or pretend to be, motivated by high ideals, it's still wrong.



That's potentially dangerous thinking. In fact, that's why US universities have de facto racial quotas on Asians -- because their excellent high school results are seen as being "controlled by race."

Agreed 100% Justice is a strong word which needs no adjective. Adding an adjective, in writing as well as life, only weakens it.

It is either just or it is not. No "social" needed--it just muddies up the works.

 

[Liza B.]

It isn't just South Africa. In America, colleges are actually re-introducing segregation at the behest of the social justice types, excluding white students from certain dorms or student centers. The term white and whiteness are used as synonyms for everything wrong with western society. The media praises groups like blm who regularly engaged in attacks on people for being white during their riots or protests. This is a major reason for the rise of white nationalism in this country.

It's poison, pure and simple. Racial animus is poison for the soul.

 

[Francis Drake]

Whatever you might think of race relations in South Africa, this certainly looks like another step towards becoming a failed state. Rampant crime that can't be controlled, a corrupt ex-PM who has stolen tens of millions, a city of roughly half a million people runs out of water and now, farms will likely go the same way as Zimbabwe leading to food shortages

Clearly all original Marxist members of BLACK LIVES MATTER.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Fine by me.

So long as we recognize that isnt the only legit sense of justice.

Well, you can have collective guilt...like in a case where a team of robbers decide to rob a bank or something. They may have participated in different ways...but they're collectively guilty of the heist.

Their trial and punishment would still fall under the same old definition of justice though.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That could be. I remember reading in "Cry, the Beloved Country" the main character stated that the day would come the white government would realize their ways were wrong but it would come too late.

Seems such was "prophetic."

I wonder if it will still seem that way when they're starving.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Sorry, I should have been more clear; I think the people arguing against it because they are defining it narrowly as being about collective guilt/oppression haven't had much involvement in it.

Yeah I don't think that's the case. It may not be the picture of social justice in Australia (or it might be, I don't really know) but collective guilt and oppression are the basis of social justice here in the U.S.

Take a look for yourself...

Inside a Public School Social Justice Factory

 

[Ana the Ist]

Chuck Schumer said just today our next Supreme Court Justice should be the right color or gender. Forget about qualifications. All that matters is Identity.

We've gone insane.

The left likes to talk about how important race, culture, and identity are....yet when white men voted for a white man, they're suddenly confused. They don't want to entertain the idea that their politics lead down this path.

 

[Paidiske]

Take a look for yourself...

Inside a Public School Social Justice Factory

From an Australian point of view, that's just weird. But then, our issues with race are very different. (Most of our race issues are to do with questions of migration and resulting cultural change, rather than having two fairly clearly-identified groups vying for dominance).

To me, it looks like they took some valid concepts (there's a lot to be said for being conscious of different world views to your own culture's, for example) and then pushed them ab adsurdum. (Although the reporting looks pretty sensationalist, too, so I'm taking it with more than a grain of salt).

But that has very little to do with the social justice landscape as a whole, and certainly internationally, where the issues are very different to in the U.S.

 

[Ana the Ist]

From an Australian point of view, that's just weird. But then, our issues with race are very different. (Most of our race issues are to do with questions of migration and resulting cultural change, rather than having two fairly clearly-identified groups vying for dominance).

Is that how it looks? Vying for dominance? I can tell you honestly, at least from a white person's perspective...dominance has nothing to do with it. For me, it's still just trying to point out racism in the interest of equality....much as it's always been. The difference now is that I'm not calling out conservatives as much for their racist views of minorities....I'm too busy calling out the mainstreamed racist views of liberals regarding whites.

To me, it looks like they took some valid concepts (there's a lot to be said for being conscious of different world views to your own culture's, for example) and then pushed them ab adsurdum. (Although the reporting looks pretty sensationalist, too, so I'm taking it with more than a grain of salt).

The writer is definitely biased...but that doesn't make any of it untrue. It fits with a lot of what's been happening in schools across the nation. Did you see the screenshot of the student's comment? If you believed nothing else....that should tell you everything. He's not talking about some crazy college humanities class...he's talking about a high school English class.

But that has very little to do with the social justice landscape as a whole, and certainly internationally, where the issues are very different to in the U.S.

I think South Africa would disagree with you there. I'm not pretending to speak for Australia, though I've seen much of the same there, so please don't pretend to speak for the entire world.

 

[Paidiske]

Is that how it looks? Vying for dominance?

Pretty much, yeah. Definitely on the white side, it seems to be about trying to maintain cultural, social and economic dominance. From what I can see here.

I think South Africa would disagree with you there. I'm not pretending to speak for Australia, though I've seen much of the same there, so please don't pretend to speak for the entire world.

I'm not trying to speak for the entire world. I'm trying to argue that one very narrow, very America-centric viewpoint doesn't exhaust the topic for the entire world.

 

[FireDragon76]

The left likes to talk about how important race, culture, and identity are....yet when white men voted for a white man, they're suddenly confused. They don't want to entertain the idea that their politics lead down this path.

The left and right in the US typically talk about race in different ways. For the right there is a kind of cultural and genetic determinism behind racial rhetoric that isn't as emphasized for the left.

 

[Paidiske]

It started with the Dutch East India company. See here: Dutch East India Company (DEIC)/VOC

 

[Paidiske]

Ah... no. Basically it says the world's very first multi-national company barged in and established a colony with slave labour and in conflict with the local tribes, with the single purpose of generating profit for the owners of that company (who were Dutch).