Something to think about.

[CJF]

Project 86, I you. I agree.

 

[Jerry Smith]

Originally posted by Project 86
This thread alone sickens me greatly. Seeing young Christians being influenced away from got by athiests on a Christian board. What am I talking about? You say evolution doesn't interfer with God? Wrong. Not with the true God, it gets in the way majorly with him. Let me list the reasons why. Last thing I want to say before getting to the points is that this isn't about me being right you bring wrong. This is God being right and anyone else that doesn't agree with him being wrong. I use to be so pridful myself until I gave myself up to the Lord. Now it's time that he uses me for his good will to make up for the years I worked on destroying it.

This isn't a question of whether God is right or whether science is right. It is a question of whether people who think evolution is at odds with God's word are right. I think they are wrong.

1. The subject of Salvation gets twisted when evolution that we came from other species is believed. Christianity begins to crumble. If you don't think so your fooling yourself. I could give you many reasons why this is the case but I challenge Christians to read Genesis, read the 4 books on Jesus life, pray to God and you'll see obvious reasons why us evolving from another species causes major problems with the topic of salvation.

Or maybe you won't. There are plenty of good, conservative, Bible-believing Christians that absolutely do not see these problems.

2. God told us how life was started. Like it or not if you believe in evolution you do call God a liar. It's as plain as that and don't try to talk your way around it by calling it "just a story" or just some fancy poetic way of describing how God started it all. Doesn't work that way.

Or maybe if you reject the facts that are learned from observing God's creation because you are stuck on one interpretation of what the Bible says, you are putting God in too small a box and telling Him how He has to do His business.

3. Bible teaches false science like the world is flat is something athiest love to use yet when used in context shows them they are so wrong. There is more proof the bible decribes the world as round then it is flat. Anyone that's without the Holy Spirit won't be able to understand the bible the way it needs to be understood. Take that into account when reading something from someone "teaching us what the bible tells us". Hard thing to believe, specially for someone that doesn't believe in the Holy Spirit to begin with but this is the case.

The point is, that if you insisted on the same literal interpretations of the Bible on the "flat earth" passages, then you would have to reject the fact that the world is round for the same reason that you reject the fact that life evolved.

4. Lack of proof of evolution. Taught it in school. Read many books on it. I think it's the most sorry excuse for science ever. Sorry to hurt people feelings on this one but it is. It's a joke that so much money is poured into research like this when it could be used in better fields of science. Yes fields of science. Science isn't evil but evolutionary science serves no real purpose but to defy God. I know I'll get flamed for this one but I'm not going to hide in a bubble like to many Christians do.

You should definitely have someone explain the real facts to you (maybe not flame you - since you obviously haven't been involved deeply enough in the debate to have encountered all of the evidence)...

5. God tells us to not lean on mans understanding. Problem is those words go in one ear and out the other here. This is the perfect example of why we should follow Gods words here. We get lead astray, filled with false doubts and end up turing away from God.

But the literal anti-evolution reading of Genesis is also based on man's understanding.

P.S. You can try to argue these points that I get straight to the point with but I'm not here to argue I'm here to send a important message to any people that may be led astray by reading about evolution on these boards. Call me ignorant, called my uneducated, I honestly don't care. For it is only what God thinks of this post that counts. I may or may not reply to anything posted after this message. It depends on what I'm lead to do.

It is the responsibility of the informed reader to dispute points that you have made in error. I am doing so, only to set the record straight. I will be happy to see you point out my errors to me as well.

 

[ashibaka]

You know what, Darrions? I don't think you've been listening to a single thing Rufus, Jerry, or I have said. I'm trying to argue this from logic, but it seems you'll take faith over logic any day. In that case, you can believe whatever you want, because I have no chance arguing against you.

 

[CJF]

Okay, I have been putting off saying this, but I'm going to say it anyways. You can argue with me all you want, but you can't argue with God. All evolution is, is trying to hide from God. Evolutionists can't accept the fact that they are wrong and need to admit it! So, they go to evolution, argue with God, and then put their beleif in evolution because with evolution you don't admit you're wrong. Science isn't wrong, it's the evolution that's wrong. And one day, when you stand before God your "logic" wont get you into heaven. Evolution deceives, and evolutionists have been deceived.

 

[Jerry Smith]

Originally posted by DARRIONS
Okay, I have been putting off saying this, but I'm going to say it anyways. You can argue with me all you want, but you can't argue with God. All evolution is, is trying to hide from God. Evolutionists can't accept the fact that they are wrong and need to admit it! So, they go to evolution, argue with God, and then put their beleif in evolution because with evolution you don't admit you're wrong. Science isn't wrong, it's the evolution that's wrong. And one day, when you stand before God your "logic" wont get you into heaven. Evolution deceives, and evolutionists have been deceived.

Will the Born Again Christians who have accepted evolution (and who don't argue with God - only with people who have a narrow view of what God is capable of) --- will they get into heaven?

 

[ashibaka]

Originally posted by DARRIONS
Okay, I have been putting off saying this, but I'm going to say it anyways. You can argue with me all you want, but you can't argue with God.

And since you apparently can interpret God's word so well that you know evolution is evil, you are a direct representative of God and we can't even argue with you. Which was my original point a few posts up.

 

[Jerry Smith]

One other question while you are thinking about that one. And this is a hard one. Think about it, but don't let it upset you:

Do you think that anyone might be turned away from Christianity because people like Project86 or yourself convince them that they have to ignore the real facts of the world in order to believe in the God of the Bible? Even when that isn't really true?

 

[CJF]

Proverbs 11:2-"When pride comes, then comes shame;
But with the humble is wisdom."


Jerry, a Christian who beleives only in what God says and His Word, and has accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior, wouldn't then take evolution and run with it. That would mean that they dont REALLY have faith in what Jesus did, and so they accept evolution just to be EXTRA carefull, and also to fit in.

 

[Jerry Smith]

Originally posted by DARRIONS
Proverbs 11:2-"When pride comes, then comes shame;
But with the humble is wisdom."


Jerry, a Christian who beleives only in what God says and His Word, and has accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior, wouldn't then take evolution and run with it. That would mean that they dont REALLY have faith in what Jesus did, and so they accept evolution just to be EXTRA carefull, and also to fit in.

There is a difference in believing "ONLY" in what God says in the Bible and believing "EVERYTHING" that God says in the Bible.

You believe some things that aren't in the Bible right? Like how static discharge in the clouds makes lightning? That doesn't mean that God didn't do it, it just means you know a little bit more about what all is happening when God does something. That isn't pride, that is natural curiosity and a desire for wisdom and knowledge about the world around you. That's why some Christians accept evolution, even though the Bible doesn't talk about it.

 

[CJF]

And, ashibaka I only beleive in the one true God. And I always will.

Jerry, nobody can force someone to do something. We all have a free choice. The only thing I can do, is warn you. God is the one who does the work. He is the one who convicts. I can't do a thing. I am not the one who saves, Jesus is. I am only used by God. As phony as that may sound, it's true.

 

[CJF]

Jerry, evloution about how a big bang created the universe, and about how humans had a relative to monkeys is false. If the Bible, which is God's word, doesn't say it happened it didn't happen! God wouldn't confuse us like this, by not saying how he made humans. God said He made us in His image. If humans came from monkeys, does that mean God is a monkey? No!

 

[ashibaka]

I believe the "humans came from monkeys" thing was refuted on page 9.

 

[chickenman]

the bible also doesn't mention the building of the pyramids, so it obviously didn't happen

 

[CJF]

That's not what I meant. I meant, that if God had made humans from monkeys he would ahve told us, so we would have to be divided like this. But because some people didn't want to admit that they were wrong, they started to beleive in evolution. It's pride. Pride, of wanting to be right, and not wanting to admit that their wrong.

 

[ashibaka]

Originally posted by DARRIONS
But because some people didn't want to admit that they were wrong, they started to beleive in evolution.

Nobody ever "believes" in evolution. Charles Darwin was a Christian who was simply putting forth a new theory for scientific speculation. Scientists today know that his theory was basically correct, although modern knowledge of genetics has overwritten some of Darwin's original ideas.

Like I said: Evolution is not a religion. It is scientific fact, and it was proposed in scientific format.

 

[Jerry Smith]

Originally posted by DARRIONS
Jerry, evloution about how a big bang created the universe, and about how humans had a relative to monkeys is false. If the Bible, which is God's word, doesn't say it happened it didn't happen! God wouldn't confuse us like this, by not saying how he made humans. God said He made us in His image. If humans came from monkeys, does that mean God is a monkey? No!

Ok. All I ask is you think back to what Rufus and I (and others) have said in this conversation a few years from now when you have had more science courses and gotten to know more perspectives on the meaning of the Bible. I honestly wish you the best of luck.

 

[Jerry Smith]

Originally posted by DARRIONS
That's not what I meant. I meant, that if God had made humans from monkeys he would ahve told us, so we would have to be divided like this. But because some people didn't want to admit that they were wrong, they started to beleive in evolution. It's pride. Pride, of wanting to be right, and not wanting to admit that their wrong.

Oh yeah one more thing - He might not have thought it was all that important to go into the details of how He created the universe and life when He had other things He wanted to teach in the Bible. He didn't explain how He makes lightning in the Bible either....

 

[CJF]

Ashibaka-If it's fact, then why are there missing peices to the Thories? For something to be defined as fact, it must be proven. There is not one complete theory of evolution without missing pieces. Interestingly enough, there are more scientific facts that prove creation than evolution.

 

[ashibaka]

I agree that evolution is incomplete -- as is every science. Evolution doesn't purport to be a complete authority on everything, as the Bible does. Similarly, Newtonian physics did not attempt to explain why gravity occured; it only explained how.

But as for your second point, I'd be interested to hear some of these "scientific facts". They may be useful for entertainment!

 

[chickenman]

Interestingly enough, there are more scientific facts that prove creation than evolution. - go learn more about evolution and you will see where the truth lies