Something to think about.

[EspressoDuck]

Hey, for all you people out there who believe in the 'Big Bang' and evolution and so forth, here's something to think about.

The chances of the earth, much less the entire galaxy, being created by a chance explosion as the result of the collision of some floating space dust (where did the dust come from, anyway?) is the same as the chances of you taking a brand new watch, smashing it to pieces, putting it into a plastic bag and shaking it for a thousand years, and pulling out a brand new watch. It just isn't possible. Much more beleivable is the theory (truth, actually) that there is some greater being out there (God) that had the power and intelligence to create the universe, and had the love to care for and watch over every living thing He put into it.

 

[mac_philo]

If you think that which is believable must be true you've probably never studied statistics!

In any case, you've said that it has some probability, then you said it is impossible. Those are mutually exclusive claims.

I fail to see why the watch example is relevant, since there is no force akin to natural selection by which it could be organized.

 

[LewisWildermuth]

Some day CelandineBaggins you should take some college level science courses. That may give you something to think about.

 

[chickenman]

this person plainly doesn't want to have to do any "thinking"

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by CelandineBaggins
Hey, for all you people out there who believe in the 'Big Bang' and evolution and so forth, here's something to think about.

The chances of the earth, much less the entire galaxy, being created by a chance explosion as the result of the collision of some floating space dust (where did the dust come from, anyway?)

Actually, that's entirely untrue, even apart from the vast divergence with this and current best-guess cosmology. To the best of our knowledge, if you explode about a universe's worth of matter as plasma and energy, you get something very much like this every time.

 

[Gunny]

IS 40:28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard? The everlasting God, Jehovah, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary; there is no searching of his understanding.
IS 40:29 He giveth power to the faint; and to him that hath no might he increaseth strength.
IS 40:30 Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall:
IS 40:31 but they that wait for Jehovah shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; they shall walk, and not faint.

ASV 1901


GySgt
James

 

[EspressoDuck]

Excuse me...I really do not think you people have the right to get on my case because I posted something that I had read. Why don't you go find the person who wrote it and get on their case and leave me alone! All I did was post something I had found that was interesting and in my opinion entirely true. I think some of you are the ones who need to learn how to think.

 

[Jerry Smith]

Originally posted by CelandineBaggins
Excuse me...I really do not think you people have the right to get on my case because I posted something that I had read. Why don't you go find the person who wrote it and get on their case and leave me alone! All I did was post something I had found that was interesting and in my opinion entirely true. I think some of you are the ones who need to learn how to think.

But you didn't tell us it was just something you read... (nor did you tell us where you read it -!-). You just stated it as though it were a fact. Its good, if you are going to state something as fact, to make sure that it is true.

Also, if you are just relating to us something that you read, it is good to tell us where you read it.

 

[RufusAtticus]

Originally posted by CelandineBaggins
Excuse me...I really do not think you people have the right to get on my case because I posted something that I had read. Why don't you go find the person who wrote it and get on their case and leave me alone! All I did was post something I had found that was interesting and in my opinion entirely true. I think some of you are the ones who need to learn how to think.

I'm sorry Celandine, but if those aren't your words you plaigarized by not citing your source. Maybe if you had actually admited that you didn't write it, people wouldn't have assumed that you did. Don't get all upset that people deconstructed your post.

It's not our job to find the person who wrote it, but it's your job to proved it for us.

You're still young. Maybe you haven't covered that in school yet? But it is definately a policy you will need to accept to keep you out of trouble with your teachers.

 

[EspressoDuck]

I don't remember where I read it but I do remember reading it. I didn't plaguerize either, it's someone else's idea in my own words. So to whoever wrote it before you file a lawsuit, I apologize. And boy, are my teachers going to have someone to deal with when we cover this! Well, I definetaly don't appreciate the way you 'deconstructed' my post. Even I am old enough to know the right way to treat people!

 

[EspressoDuck]

Originally posted by mac_philo


I fail to see why the watch example is relevant, since there is no force akin to natural selection by which it could be organized.

Okay, then take a leaf-that's from nature- and rip it up. See if in a thousand years it's a leaf again.

 

[RufusAtticus]

Originally posted by CelandineBaggins
I didn't plaguerize either, it's someone else's idea in my own words.

That's still considering plagiary. If you want to you can read this page for some more information.

You should also remeber that most of the people who post in this forum are adults. Sometimes we forget that a new poster might be a young adult like yourself.

 

[RufusAtticus]

Originally posted by CelandineBaggins


Okay, then take a leaf-that's from nature- and rip it up. See if in a thousand years it's a leaf again.

Celandine,

Is this what you think evolution is?

 

[EspressoDuck]

No, I know what evolution is. The reason for this post in the first place is someone's opinion-and a logical one at that-about the big bang, a chance explosion that created something out of nothing. If you forget the details, it's the same thing. A bunch of stuff floating around just cant suddenly become something incredibly complex without the help of a greater being.

 

[RufusAtticus]

Celandine,

The big bang is not "something from nothing." From this NASA page:

The Big Bang Theory is the dominant scientific theory about the origin of the universe. According to the big bang, the universe was created sometime between 10 billion and 20 billion years ago from a cosmic explosion that hurled matter and in all directions.

Furthermore, the big bang is not pertinant to the study of evolution and visa versa.

A bunch of stuff floating around just cant suddenly become something incredibly complex without the help of a greater being.

First Point: How do you know that a greater being is needed?

Second Point: No one is claim that anything happened suddenly.

It seems to me that you only have a passing familarity with these topics. Would you like me to give you some things too look over to make you more familiar?

 

[RufusAtticus]

"No, I know what evolution is."

Would you humor me and explain it to me? I'm curious as to what you know.

 

[EspressoDuck]

Well, I obviously made a mistake posting in this forum. I am a Christian, nothing is going to change my mind. I do not believe in evolution and I DO NOT want to know about it. You people can debate about evolution and the big bang and stuff all you want. I'm through until I have something interesting to talk about in this forum. In my opinion, science just gets in the way of God. I mean, God is much more comforting than the thought of evolving from something else. I like to think that something extremely powerful created me specially according to his perfect plan. I like to think that he knows how many hairs I have on my head. I like to think that he knows where I am at all times. I like to know that he loves me for who I am, who he made me. Much more comforting!

 

[RufusAtticus]

Celandine,

You should understand that science does not get in the way of God. Plenty of God-fearing Christians are active in the scientific comunity. Evolution does not equal Godlessness. There is nothing about evolution that says that God doesn't care for you. That is a fearmongering tacit spread by people who don't like the conclusions of science. Do you feel that meterology gets in the way of God? After all, not long ago people thought that God made lightening. Now we know that it static electricity. But no one feels that meterology got in the way of a personal relationship with God. Why should biology and geology be any different?


Here is something a pentacostal Christian wrote to a girl not much older than you.

Tricia,
You asked for the reasons that changed my mind about evolution and the big bang—well, I’ll have to tell you that it hasn’t been night and day one way or the other, more like a peaceful coexistence of the two.

In high school, our biology teacher spent about 10 minutes on evolution (I don’t actually remember what she said) and followed it up with the statement that she didn’t believe it either and that it was perfectly alright to believe in Adam and Eve. (Yes, this was a public high school—I know, I know.) That was fine with me because I didn’t believe any of that apes to men idea either! It wasn’t a big deal with my family or church—it was just science saying there wasn’t a God and we didn’t have to listen to that.

My freshman year in college, I took Intro to Anthropology. During the first week of that class, our prof explained evolution.. Namely, that evolution says that organisms that successfully reproduce pass on their traits to the next generation. When the environment changes, organisms that already possess traits suitable for the new environment are at a greater advantage than those that do not. (The organisms already suitable could have random mutations which were previously useless and now helpful.) Therefore, the organisms with suitable traits have a greater influence on the population as a whole. Eventually, with successive environmental changes a later organism could be very different from the earliest organism.

I know that this is not even half of what the whole of evolution is—I’ve left out genetic drift and bottlenecks and population dynamics and yadayadayada. And I know that you probably have heard this and more explanative versions before in this very forum. But I knew nothing about evolution, except that it was wrong and proved God didn’t exist to some people. But this idea of change over long amounts of time—this didn’t say anything about God existing or not—this didn’t say that God didn’t create the first organisms. And the Bible never said that what God created never changed—only that it was good in His sight. No, this idea simply made sense—it was science. So it really wasn’t for me the idea of creation versus evolution changed, simply that there could be creation then evolution. And while I will admit that I don’t know very much about the Big Bang or other scientific ways to explain the universe—what you have been asking here is great for me too—I see no reason to say that what science has learned and is learning about the rules and the structure of the universe now and at its beginning conflict with my knowledge of God and His role in my life.

There’s no reason to think scientists are out in the world trying to overthrow faith—they are simply investigating how this natural world works. Neither are they trying to deceive—the glory is in finding the truth. Why then are there some people of faith crusading against science? While I’m sure you could get plenty of answers to this question on this board, I think it’s because their worldview is limited and they’ve assigned God a place in it and it can’t be changed—not even to grow. Never be afraid to change your mind, Tricia.

 

[ardipithecus]

Originally posted by CelandineBaggins
Hey, for all you people out there who believe in the 'Big Bang' and evolution and so forth, here's something to think about.

The chances of the earth, much less the entire galaxy, being created by a chance explosion as the result of the collision of some floating space dust (where did the dust come from, anyway?)
[Rest of the trite ommitted]

Of course no astronomer thinks that the Earth or an entire galaxy was formed by "a chance explosion as the result of the collision of some floating space dust..."

This is what is commonly called a "straw man" fallacy. This fallacy is setting up a false version of the someone "believes" and debunking or poking pun of it instead of he actually holds. Even at the high school standards this is totally unacceptable. A high schooler might be forgiven for not bothering to find out how astronomers think dust formed, though a college student should be severely penalized for that give how easy it is to find out. Also a college student would probably get an "F" for claiming that astronomers think that galaxies formed from dust (or one would hope that he would).

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

Cleladine,

You blindly posted something you read, and cannot even remember where you read it. And you accuse others of not thinking?