Something doesn't feel right about BLM

[BNR32FAN]

Ummmm, no because that's how one deals with DATA.



Sorry, I have developed a habit of dealing with data over my 25+ years as a research scientist.



Well....I'll stick with a career's worth of experience with data over what you bring to the table any day of the week.

Let me ask you something...

If we have 1000 people: 870 are white and 130 are black. 122 white people are poor and 18 black people are poor which population has the higher rate of poverty?

By your estimation the whites are much worse off, right? I mean look at the numbers! 122 poor white people and only 18 black poor people.

Is this an example of runaway white poverty?

Just curious what you see.

Ok let me explain this another way. 20% of blacks are in poverty and this is because of racism right? So why is it that the other 80% of blacks apparently aren’t being discriminated against? On top of that the out of all ethnic groups how many are in poverty as a result of racism? Is it only the blacks? Is it the blacks and Native Americans? Are the Hispanics included in this theory of yours? What about the Asians, they have the lowest poverty rate does that mean they receive the lowest amount of discrimination? Tell me this out of all the ethnic groups is it only the whites that aren’t in poverty as a result of racism? Would you say that all other groups are in poverty because of racism except the whites?

 

[LostMarbels]

The KKK would have been killing Democrats and blacks, if it would restore white supremacy. So, it's not the political party that is the issue. It's the darkness of someone's skin. What a frelling terrible thing to kill someone over.

Now it is most defiantly racism. Racist as one can get. These people actually believed the south would rise again, and they were not releasing their slaves. They created legislation that keep them on their virtual plantation. It was about keeping the slaves under their control.

Something doesn't feel right about BLM

Something doesn't feel right about BLM

 

[LostMarbels]

Is it necessary to have a checking account in order to vote? Is the ID required to cash a check the same kind of ID required to vote?

An honest question, how is being black inhibiting someone from voting or obtaining an ID? Again, not mockingly, do these communities need some sort of aid or help? Some kind of provision like ramps for the disabled or something? Is there something I am unaware of that make blacks unable to complete these tasks?

Does putting up with an unnecessary nuisance make one a victim? I hardly think so.

That is my point.

Maybe you've got a point. The only recent mail-in ballot fraud I am aware of was perpetrated by a Republican.

Who cares? So we allow it to happen because the other side is the only one that, 'does it'? Why not protect your own vote and insure no one uses that loophole?

 

[mmksparbud]

Please be respectful in this thread regardless of the opinions of others! Thank you!

I don't know about you, but for me, something about the Black Lives Matter movement just seems a little... off to me. I can't quite put my finger on it, but something about it doesn't seem right, and it's deeply unsettling to me that everyone has jumped on the bandwagon to declare that they stand with BLM.

Now, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with believing that "black lives matter" because, in actuality, they DO matter! Everyone's life matters, and I think that it's okay that we're focusing on black lives mattering too right now... BUT, at the same time, I think there's something very wrong going on when there are "white" people apologizing for being white, police officers being targeted with awful slogans that say that they're ALL terrible people, and people are using the name of BLM to violently riot in the streets.

But I think one of the things that unsettles me the most is the fact that just about every single company and celebrity, even overseas, have said that they are standing with BLM. Something about that tips me off as very blatant "virtue-signaling" and like they're using this to profit off of us. Maybe this last point has more to do with the companies and not the BLM movement itself, but it still makes me thing something really "not right" is going on here. In other words, I'm highly skeptical of everyone and everything right now.

Is it just me? Am I crazy in thinking that something might not be so right about the BLM movement?? Someone please let me know.

I object to any movement that goes around destroying property that does not belong to them, they even destroy and loot those businesses that belong to their own people, or that service their own people! How is that supposed to help? The very next day after a "protest", a young black woman went to the store to get food for her child, not only was there no food---there was no store. There is no excuse for such a barbaric thing. Protest all you want. But destruction and looting has nothing to do with protesting. Who is benefiting from looting? Only the one doing the looting.

 

[Speedwell]

An honest question, how is being black inhibiting someone from voting or obtaining an ID? Again, not mockingly, do these communities need some sort of aid or help? Some kind of provision like ramps for the disabled or something? Is there something I am unaware of that make blacks unable to complete these tasks?

None of the above. And, in fact, voter ID laws dd not reduce minority turn-out anything like as as much as the perpetrators had hoped. Those that needed rides to distant ID offices got them, elderly people with missing or inadequate birth records got help in many cases. No victims. Just annoyed people.

That is my point.

No, it's mine. Why should groups being targeted by these voter ID laws have to be seen as victims just because they don't like being targeted? "You're complaining about racial targeting through voter ID laws? You must think blacks are too stupid to get the IDs. How racist is that?"

Who cares? So we allow it to happen because the other side is the only one that, 'does it'? Why not protect your own vote and insure no one uses that loophole?

Who cares? The President and his supporters evidently, who believe that absentee ballots are going to be fraudulently used only by Democrats.

 

[istodolez]

And yet you somehow believe we would actually be oppressed for hundreds of years.

Actually I DON'T. I don't know where you got that. Probably the same place you get all your "representations" of me...pure imagination.

Truth about that is, not a single person, building, car, or small farm animal was harmed in those actions.

Philandro Castille had a license to carry his gun. To my knowledge he didn't shoot anyone but he's dead.

Not a single piece of trash was left on the ground. But the message was received loud and clear.

Yes, that white man-children just want what they want and they want it now, mommy. Silliness. Playing cowboy with their guns.

Do you like tacos?

Not taking the bait. Whatever it is. Sorry.

 

[istodolez]

I've got to be honest, this makes not a lick of sense to me.

Personal inability to read up on the topic does not equate to a legitimate point.

How does race have anything to do with ID? Don't you need ID to even cash a check?

Not all ID's are acceptable for voting. Depending on the state the ID you use to cash a check is different from what you would be able to use to vote. Not everyone has a drivers license. Not all ID"s are created equal.

The problem is access to the ID. Some people have to travel significant distance and take time off of work to get said ID. If you work an extremely low wage job, you don't have a car, you live in a rural area and the nearest DMV is miles and miles away what is the likely outcome of that? And of course because these factors relate usually to POVERTY and POVERTY RATES are highest among minority groups it tends to selectively disenfranchise minorities.

And the best part is: voter ID fraud is almost non-existant. So it is "fixing" a problem that doesn't really exist. Which, of course, begs the question: why require voter ID? Well, the OBVIOUS answer is manifest when you see which party is pushing these laws. Is it the party that cares about excessive government spending? Why yes! Yes it is! That same party has a SERIOUS problem with minorities. They just can't convince said minorities that they are working in their best interest. So obviously you propose legislation that "fixes" a non-existant problem, fail to fund the necessary cost to provide universal ID's and universal access to ID's and suddenly your "minority vote" problem disappears! Viola!

Secondly, I keep being told there is no push for mail in ballots. We can't have mail in ballots. We will have fraud all over the place.

Except that isn't the case. We have states with mail-in voting already and no study has found systemic fraud. If there's a few anecdotal cases that's one thing (not good) but not "fraud all over the place". Remember, even your guy, Trump, votes by mail.

If it's good enough for the guy who has that much trouble with not lying it should be good enough for regular Americans as well!

 

[LostMarbels]

None of the above. And, in fact, voter ID laws dd not reduce minority turn-out anything like as much as the perpetrators had hoped. Those that needed rides to distant ID offices got them, elderly people with missing or inadequate birth records got help in many cases. No victims. Just annoyed people.

That's life. The DMV sucks no matter what color you are. County/State permitting. Principality/municipality ordinances & regulatory practice offices, and licensure. They all suck. They all have waiting rooms filled to the rafters. They all have useless tomes of physical copy paperwork in triplicate.

Just trying to put up a single fireworks tent will take at least two weeks; bouncing around different gov buildings.

No, it's mine. Why should groups being targeted by these voter ID laws have to be seen as victims just because they don't like being targeted? "You're complaining about racial targeting through voter ID laws? You must think blacks are too stupid to get the IDs. How racist is that?"

It was not my understanding that only blacks are required to have ID, specifically 'targeting' them. Are you sure that is the case?

Who cares? The President and his supporters evidently, who believe that absentee ballots are going to be fraudulently used only by Democrats.

Not at all "only". The 'swamp'. China. Among others implicated in the coup attempt.

 

[istodolez]

Ok let me explain this another way. 20% of blacks are in poverty and this is because of racism right?

IN PART. Not entirely. But systemically there is SOME reason that the median black household income is signficantly lower than whites.

So why is it that the other 80% of blacks apparently aren’t being discriminated against?

Oversimplification.

Is it only the blacks? Is it the blacks and Native Americans?

Our relationship to black citizens has a long and storied history. It is a special case. And, again, the numbers do not lie. So if there's not a systemic race-based issue then it is up to YOU to suggest why black people, on average, in America do worse than white people.

Right now there's a really clean and clear signal that aligns almost PERFECTLY with our historical failure to deal with the black community going back to the beginning of our country. We can track almost every single step leading up to why we have this racial disparity today. But if you want to hypothesize something that ISN'T that then it is incumbent upon you to say it out loud.

What is it?

Are the Hispanics included in this theory of yours?

You mean the same race that produced the flood of "rapists" and "drug lords" that Trump warned his followers about? Those people? Hispanic Americans obviously also have an issue with systemic racism in the US.

What about the Asians, they have the lowest poverty rate does that mean they receive the lowest amount of discrimination?

You DO realize that within the lifetime of people still kicking around that white America put other Americans into CONCENTRATION CAMPS based on their asian ancestry, right?

But to the point you raise I just found a great write up on this topic of the "Model Minority".

Stop Pointing at Asian Americans to Downplay Racism at Universities - The Leadership Conference Education Fund

Tell me this out of all the ethnic groups is it only the whites that aren’t in poverty as a result of racism? Would you say that all other groups are in poverty because of racism except the whites?

You oversimplify the case.

 

[LostMarbels]

Not all ID's are acceptable for voting. Depending on the state the ID you use to cash a check is different from what you would be able to use to vote. Not everyone has a drivers license. Not all ID"s are created equal.

But that is only an issue blacks have? No other races in America have the same issues?

The problem is access to the ID. Some people have to travel significant distance and take time off of work to get said ID.

And again... why do you assume only blacks have to deal with this issue?

If you work an extremely low wage job, you don't have a car, you live in a rural area and the nearest DMV is miles and miles away what is the likely outcome of that?

Hey, you just described me. Personally, I walk through my backyard into my neighbors yard, continue to the front door, and knock. Sy lets me borrow his truck. But when I have to, I walk the 2 miles to the bus stop. We even walk about a mile as a family to the grocery store regularly. Use a dolly that folds flat into a cart to carry groceries. Take turns pulling it. I am absolutely dead the next couple of days because of my hips, and it takes me forever to walk that distance, but you gotta do what you gotta do to survive/live/exist sometimes.

 

[istodolez]

An honest question, how is being black inhibiting someone from voting or obtaining an ID? Again, not mockingly, do these communities need some sort of aid or help?

Black people (as we've established) have a lower median income than white people. Lower income communities means people working jobs that pay very little and they have less access to "time off". Many don't even have cars or vehicles. DMV's and other services for getting government issued ID's are often many, many miles away. In some cases the burden of getting time off of a job which has almost no "time off" and getting TO the facility to get the ID is overwhelming.

It doesn't seem like it should be to those of us who have PRIVILEGE out the wazoo, but our lived experience is not theirs.

In addition the paperwork necessary to get the ID is not always something people have quick access to. If you live in desperate poverty do you keep your passport and birth certificate in the same safe? Or do you keep it near in the wine cellar? Gotta get a copy of your birth certificate? OK, take time off work...oopsy...we just discussed that. Now go to the appropriate government office...oh wait, it's a long way away and you don't have a car or mass transit is limited or non-existent where you live.

This isn't just a black-white problem. This is a poverty problem. BUT since race and poverty correlate it works out that minority poor are more hard hit by the problem.

(Like I said, there's a ton of data out there that explains this issue. Your lack of awareness of it does not make the issue go away. I highly recommend reading more on the topic.)

 

[LostMarbels]

And of course because these factors relate usually to POVERTY and POVERTY RATES are highest among minority groups it tends to selectively disenfranchise minorities.

Blacks have been kept poor, so they can be controlled, and are dependent on their governance since they were emancipated. It's called a welfare state. Their population numbers have also always been controlled. Due to aggressive policing practices, and abortion. Lock them up, put them on a chain back into the fields, or kill them before they are born. They were even forced to live in their own ghettos in the inner cities.

Every single racially oppressive measure, law, or legislation people are confronting today, was begun by democrats wanting to keep blacks in servitude. Including segregation, white supremacy and poverty. They are all cattle prods to steer the masses.

 

[istodolez]

But that is only an issue blacks have? No other races in America have the same issues?



And again... why do you assume only blacks have to deal with this issue?

Answered in POst #391.

Hey, you just described me. Personally, I walk through my backyard into my neighbors yard, continue to the front door, and knock. Sy lets me borrow his truck. But when I have to, I walk the 2 miles to the bus stop. We even walk about a mile as a family to the grocery store regularly. Use a dolly that folds flat into a cart to carry groceries. Take turns pulling it. I am absolutely dead the next couple of days because of my hips, and it takes me forever to walk that distance, but you gotta do what you gotta do to survive/live/exist sometimes.

And guess what...there are black people who do what you have to do. The point is this is a systemic issue. You keep wanting to make it all about you and your anecdotes. But that's not the point. In large populations if you see a trend then you have to figure out why the mean is what it is.

You seem stuck on the concept of "If it doesn't happen that way for me, it must not be real!" But that's just not rational.

The whole discussion here is a POPULATION LEVEL DISCUSSION. Sure there are rich black people and poor white people! SURE there are black people who live in desperate poverty and still get out and vote and do everything YOU do. SURE! But in the large context there is a systemic issue.

Earlier I made an example related to my field of expertise (chemistry) and I'll repeat it here. If you have a ballon it is filled with zillions of gas molecules. These molecules are zipping around inside the balloon hitting the walls and creating the pressure that keeps the balloon inflated. If I know the speed of the molecules I can get an idea of the temperature of the system. BUT here's the key not all the molecules are moving at the same speed. They have a DISTRIBUTION OF SPEEDS meaning that if I were to randomly choose a molecule I might not get one that has a speed that relates to the temperature! If I choose a BUNCH of the molecules and measure their speed I can estimate the temperature better.

Now let's take TWO balloons full of gas at two DIFFERENT temperatures. If I sample ONE molecule from balloon "A" and one molecule from balloon "B" I might see that they both have the same SPEED! Does that mean the two balloons are at the same temperature? NO. I will have to measure many, many molecules worth of speed in both balloons, but in the end I will find that the average speed of the gas molecules in the two different balloons DIFFERS even if occasionally one or two molecules have the same speed in both balloons.

Hopefully you get the point.

 

[istodolez]

Blacks have been kept poor, so they can be controlled, and are dependent on their governance since they were emancipated. It's called a welfare state.

So you're saying you don't know anything about post-Civil War American history? Yes they were kept poor after the Civil War and they were kept disadvantaged. But not via the welfare system. Jim Crow arose long before "welfare" existed in the US. They were kept disadvantaged in order to maintain white supremacy.

 

[98cwitr]

Please be respectful in this thread regardless of the opinions of others! Thank you!

I don't know about you, but for me, something about the Black Lives Matter movement just seems a little... off to me. I can't quite put my finger on it, but something about it doesn't seem right, and it's deeply unsettling to me that everyone has jumped on the bandwagon to declare that they stand with BLM.

Now, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with believing that "black lives matter" because, in actuality, they DO matter! Everyone's life matters, and I think that it's okay that we're focusing on black lives mattering too right now... BUT, at the same time, I think there's something very wrong going on when there are "white" people apologizing for being white, police officers being targeted with awful slogans that say that they're ALL terrible people, and people are using the name of BLM to violently riot in the streets.

But I think one of the things that unsettles me the most is the fact that just about every single company and celebrity, even overseas, have said that they are standing with BLM. Something about that tips me off as very blatant "virtue-signaling" and like they're using this to profit off of us. Maybe this last point has more to do with the companies and not the BLM movement itself, but it still makes me thing something really "not right" is going on here. In other words, I'm highly skeptical of everyone and everything right now.

Is it just me? Am I crazy in thinking that something might not be so right about the BLM movement?? Someone please let me know.

It's a marxist revolution. Consider that BLM's website is using ActBlue to handle donations. ActBlue is the campaigning arm for the DNC. Co-Founder has already admitted to being a trained marxist activist. This is a political operation under the guise of social justice.

Marxism, Morality, and Social Justice

https://www.blacklivesmatter.com/donate

ActBlue Summary | OpenSecrets

 

[LostMarbels]

In addition the paperwork necessary to get the ID is not always something people have quick access to. If you live in desperate poverty do you keep your passport and birth certificate in the same safe? Or do you keep it near in the wine cellar?

Passport?! Wine cellar?! A safe? What world are you from? Christ as my witness I do not even have a birth certificate. I prove who I am with bills, SS card and a state ID. Don't even have a DL. But I do have 20 years of residency at the same address, under the same name, mortgaged under my SS#.

I am even real ID compliant off of that paperwork.

Under Florida DMV state ID requirements, to apply for REAL ID-compliant IDs, applicants must prove their:

• Identity.
• Date of birth.
• Social Security Number.
• State residency.
• Citizenship, or other legal presence in the country.
• Proof of name change (where applicable).

It can be done. Just stop making exscuses.

 

[LostMarbels]

And guess what...there are black people who do what you have to do. The point is this is a systemic issue. You keep wanting to make it all about you and your anecdotes. But that's not the point. In large populations if you see a trend then you have to figure out why the mean is what it is.

You don't want to seem to grasp the fact that it isn't the layman on the street causing these problems. These issues stem from political ideologies, and legislative bodies such as congress and the states that create law in which the individuals being affected reside.

This is not a racial issue concerning the populace. The citizenry. In fact, people on my side are so sick of these issues they are referred to as the swamp, and we demand their removal.

 

[jardiniere]

Blacks have been kept poor, so they can be controlled, and are dependent on their governance since they were emancipated. It's called a welfare state. Their population numbers have also always been controlled. Due to aggressive policing practices, and abortion. Lock them up, put them on a chain back into the fields, or kill them before they are born. They were even forced to live in their own ghettos in the inner cities.

Every single racially oppressive measure, law, or legislation people are confronting today, was begun by democrats wanting to keep blacks in servitude. Including segregation, white supremacy and poverty. They are all cattle prods to steer the masses.

You have one heck of a low opinion about blacks.

 

[LostMarbels]

You have one heck of a low opinion about blacks.

Quite the opposite. I wish blacks would realize how they are being manipulated to be angry at everyone except those who are doing them harm. Blacks in America have every reason to rise up, and every valid argument to support their misgivings. But they are misappropriating that anger. It isn't the evil whites. It's their government that keeps legislating laws that the police have to uphold, and it is the same people that encourage more, and more violence in our streets. Which means more people will engage the police. More people will get hurt. More people will get angry as more incidents occur, which gives the legislators justification to come down even harder. Rinse and repeat.

They are perpetuation, fomenting, violence and destructive behaviors. Using blacks as pawns.

I do not have a low opinion of blacks. I honestly want to make this crap stop.

 

[Aldebaran]

You have one heck of a low opinion about blacks.

It's the black activist groups that seem to have a low opinion of them. They're the ones who try to convince their members that they can't do things for themselves, and therefore need activist groups, welfare states, the DNC, and preferential treatment to just break even. Maybe even some outright violence and criminal behavior and property destruction in order to get some ra 'spect.