Something doesn't feel right about BLM

[JIMINZ]

This one? Just copy what's in the address bar and paste it here.

That is the one thank you.

 

[Broken Fence]

A little more research would tell you that these are just as likely to serve a conservative rally as a liberal one. It also is too legit to get too deep in an event where violence can erupt.
The “agitators” are more likely part of extreme groups or ideologies, which are on all sides.

Article
Fact Check: Were activists at Charlottesville paid?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Either you are blind or just can't see! Your brothers and sisters of color have been screaming it for years. They point it out to you and you minimize their complaint. Why? I will tell you why. It is not happening to you.

Sure some blacks scream racism but an awful lot don’t. There are people of all colors in every facet of American jobs on every level of income and have been for decades. Over 60% of the American population is white and we elected a black president for TWO TERMS. Not just once but twice and I am confident that we will do it again when another suitable candidate presents him or herself. Why do I minimize their complaint you ask? I don’t always minimize their complaint, I examine them evidence and base my decision on the events that took place. Everyone is screaming that brother Floyd was killed as a result of racism which is derived from a complete vacuum of evidence to support it. Absolutely NOTHING indicates that Floyd’s death was the result of racism and to insist that it was based solely on the color of Chauvin’s and Floyd’s skin is racism in itself. There were no racial remarks made during Floyd’s arrest and unless there is some new evidence that I have not seen Chauvin had no prior history of racism in his 19 years of service. I’d like to share something with you and ask you to read what the report against Chauvin actually says took place. I think many people may not know the full story. Just because someone screams racism doesn’t mean that it’s true and in this case we have thousands upon thousands claiming this was the result of racism with zero evidence to support it.

27 CR 20 12646 Complaint

 

[JIMINZ]

That's because there is no one central 'organization'.

Keep on believing that.

 

[cow451]

Sure some blacks scream racism but an awful lot don’t. There are people of all colors in every facet of American jobs on every level of income and have been for decades. Over 60% of the American population is white and we elected a black president for TWO TERMS. Not just once but twice and I am confident that we will do it again when another suitable candidate presents him or herself. Why do I minimize their complaint you ask? I don’t always minimize their complaint, I examine them evidence and base my decision on the events that took place. Everyone is screaming that brother Floyd was killed as a result of racism which is derived from a complete vacuum of evidence to support it. Absolutely NOTHING indicates that Floyd’s death was the result of racism and to insist that it was based solely on the color of Chauvin’s and Floyd’s skin is racism in itself. There were no racial remarks made during Floyd’s arrest and unless there is some new evidence that I have not seen Chauvin had no prior history of racism in his 19 years of service. I’d like to share something with you and ask you to read what the report against Chauvin actually says took place. I think many people may not know the full story. Just because someone screams racism doesn’t mean that it’s true and in this case we have thousands upon thousands claiming this was the result of racism with zero evidence to support it.

27 CR 20 12646 Complaint

Thank you, Mr. Mason. You are mashing up legal fine points with cultural and institutional racism. Mr Chauvin allegedly committed a homicide in the line of duty. Motive will be argued at pretrial.

 

[cow451]

Article
Fact Check: Were activists at Charlottesville paid?

Article
Fact Check: Were activists at Charlottesville paid?

And....?

 

[Hank77]

That is in the constitution,

You are thinking of the Declaration of Independence.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

 

[Broken Fence]

And....?

Shows a connection Craigslist ad and crowds on demand.

 

[cow451]

Shows a connection Craigslist ad and crowds on demand.

Which is a nonpartisan group. Got it.

 

[Broken Fence]

Which is a nonpartisan group. Got it.

You think this about Democrat or Republican. This is not. Since the assassination of JFK we have been at war with a conspiracy so vast that it incorporates every facet of the American life. JFK two weeks before assassination.

All these things he stated have happened and are happening now.

 

[Richard T]

I'm far more interested in statistically valid analyses, not anecdotal cases. Systemic racism is the real problem I'm most concerned with in regards to what I _might_ have a chance of impacting as a regular person.

It's pretty easy with statistics.

Actually not so easy as one might think. "Data-mongering is how Americans try to explain or control someone's actions. And yet, statistics about people in general, or about some category of people, tell you nothing certain about any one individual." Big Idea: Statistics About Groups Tell You Nothing About Individuals An ecological fallacy (also ecological inference fallacy[1] or population fallacy) is a formal fallacy in the interpretation of statistical data that occurs when inferences about the nature of individuals are deduced from inferences about the group to which those individuals belong." Ecological fallacy - Wikipedia Even if we were just to justify the concept of privilege using groups statistics, then I would suggest on average, that blacks that go to a private school have more privilege than white children that go to public school where they are a minority.

Another problem with the concept of white privilege, is that to me it assumes the sum total of one's experiences result in greater favor. Yes, we can measure one, or even a few outcomes (again, most often this is done by the averages based on race) but we still have lots of unknowns. Even if one were to consider the discriminatory treatment blacks in general certainly receive in real estate or finance, there are going to be exceptions. It is not anecdotal when you have a subset that does not fit the pattern. To be objective, we would have to flesh these out in the statistics and account for their privilege too.

There are other cases where white privilege may not apply. For instance, Laredo, Texas for example is 95% Hispanic, and 3.6% White, and .5 percent Asian. Laredo Demographics - Get Current Census Data for Laredo, TX If there is white privilege, there then how would you define it? I also have yet to see someone define white privilege in the context of a nearly all white community or an all black community.
Now I am not racist but if we are going to address the nature of privilege, we should be specific as to whom and when it applies.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That is why we have statistics and why it is important to read broadly. YOUR personal experience is not the same experience EVERYONE has.



That is certainly something we say we are all about, but the data indicates there are some factors that keep this from happening. Otherwise the zip code of where you were born and raised wouldn't correlate as closely to opportunities you get in your life and success overall.

Again, statistically, not anecdotally. I'm sure you know some minorities who have succeeded. That's great. But there is a statistical measure of inequality in the US that cannot be denied.



Statistically speaking, reality disagrees with you.



A lot of people who enjoy privilege desperately want that to be the case because it lets us off the hook for tacitly supporting the system that's made our lives so pleasant relatively speaking.

Statistics lack the details of each particular case. All I see in your post is a bunch of empty claims. Where are these people who can’t go to college because their not white? Somebody needs to tell them they just hit the jackpot because they have one heck of a lawsuit on the hands. Where are these people who are poor because their not white? Guess what I’m white and I’m poor to. Are you going to say they’re too poor to go to college? My reply would be are they too poor to join the military? It’s no secret that military personnel get all kinds of grants and loans for college, homes, autos, etc. As for the statistics pertaining to the success of people in certain zip codes yeah we’re often a product of our environment but the choice is still ours. You can’t blame your lack of success on your location because nobody is forced to live anywhere not that it matters because we all still choose our own path no matter where we live.

 

[LostMarbels]

At what point do people acknowledge this has nothing do with anything other than fomenting violence?

Police Officers Clash With Protesters In Front Of Lafayette Square

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Am I crazy in thinking that something might not be so right about the BLM movement??

Your not crazy, I was sketching out some kind of Blog Post or thread rough draft that BLM is the new idolatry of our day. Didn't post it yet and may not but that kind of thing I think is needed to be said.

 

[Sparagmos]

I have no idea. Most likely the paid protesters are the ones trying to incite violence and lawlessness. In my humble opinion.

Seeing how the violence and lawlessness “hurts the cause,” wouldn’t it stand to reason that if any provocateurs are being paid, it’s by people who want our movement to fail?

 

[istodolez]

Statistics lack the details of each particular case.

Anecdotal data is useless on large social topics.

All I see in your post is a bunch of empty claims.

You should read more widely.

Where are these people who can’t go to college because their not white?

Strawman.

Where are these people who are poor because their not white?

Guess what I’m white and I’m poor to.

Anecdotal data. You really should learn what statistics are for.

As for the statistics pertaining to the success of people in certain zip codes yeah we’re often a product of our environment but the choice is still ours.

You chose where you were born and raised???? Wow.

 

[istodolez]

Actually not so easy as one might think. "Data-mongering is how Americans try to explain or control someone's actions. And yet, statistics about people in general, or about some category of people, tell you nothing certain about any one individual."

Why would I use statistics to tell me about individuals?

Even if we were just to justify the concept of privilege using groups statistics, then I would suggest on average, that blacks that go to a private school have more privilege than white children that go to public school where they are a minority.

Of course you have no data to back that up (I assume because you didn't cite anything), but more to the point: on average how many black people go to private schools as a proportion of their presence in the overall population?

Another problem with the concept of white privilege, is that to me it assumes the sum total of one's experiences result in greater favor. Yes, we can measure one, or even a few outcomes (again, most often this is done by the averages based on race) but we still have lots of unknowns. Even if one were to consider the discriminatory treatment blacks in general certainly receive in real estate or finance, there are going to be exceptions.

So are you attempting to make my point here? Because when you say "Even if one were to consider the discriminatory treatment blacks in general certainly receive..." it kinda makes my point. OF COURSE there are going to be exceptions! I mean, seriously, what do you think statistics is?

It is not anecdotal when you have a subset that does not fit the pattern.

Correct. Those are called outliers in the data. But again, the whole point is that the statistics show the existence of white privilege. The fact that you are trying to bring up single people or yourself just shows that we are not talking about the same thing. I'm talking about understanding the data and what is happening on a social level.

Let me put in a situation you may be more familiar with: let's talk about a gas. If I have a balloon filled with a gas each molecule of the gas is moving at some rate of speed. NOT ALL GAS MOLECULES ARE MOVING AT THE SAME SPEED. They are moving at a variety of speeds. But I don't look at each individual molecule to understand how the gas is behaving. That would be madness.

Same thing for societies. If I want to see if there is a systemic issue in society I cannot simply randomly choose one or two individuals. That's bad sampling. But if I have a large number of individuals I can start to develop statistics to explain the various things happening in that society.

To be objective, we would have to flesh these out in the statistics and account for their privilege too.

In science, those of us who work with statistical models to explain some feature, we are always faced with unknown explanatory variables. We can test to make sure we haven't overfit the model and we can always assume that that portion of the fit that is not explained by our regression is due to either error or unknown factors. The whole point of statistics is to reduce that "residual" (the difference between the fit and the actual data) knowing we will never make it perfectly zero. If I can explain a vast majority of the data using a given set of factors then I can assume that those factors I do NOT know will only alter the fit modestly.

Now I am not racist

Good for you! I'm a racist. I'm the product of a racist society and I have been given advantages based solely on my skin color. I find myself still, to this day, working every day to account for my biases. I probably won't ever be a perfect person in this respect. I wish it were otherwise. But my life has been one of growing and learning. I aspire to this but I'm sure I fall far, far short of the goal.

but if we are going to address the nature of privilege, we should be specific as to whom and when it applies.

Not really how science is done. If you wish to go into the balloon and measure every single molecule's speed then have at it. It won't get you much closer to characterizing the gas than if you were to utilize a stochastic approach.

And, again, statistics will show larger overall trends that anecdotes hide.

 

[Strathos]

Keep on believing that.

Suggestions of nonsensical and implausible conspiracies hold little water for me.

 

[JIMINZ]

Suggestions of nonsensical and implausible conspiracies hold little water for me.

Good for you, hold on to your beliefs, that's all ya got.

Get a bigger bucket.

 

[Strathos]

Good for you, hold on to your beliefs, that's all ya got.

Get a bigger bucket.

You a flat earther too?