• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Something About Mary

Discussion in 'Mariology & Hagiography' started by seeingeyes, Apr 25, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. sculleywr

    sculleywr Orthodox Colitis Survivor

    +619
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Engaged
    US-Others
    Sure -_-. I guess that in English class, if the teacher asks me to hand him some water, I can hand him a watermelon. I mean, it does have the word water in it, right?

    If it doesn't work in English, then don't try to make it work in Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, or American Sign Language, or any other language you decide to play with.

    Find me a reason that I should trust your bunch of translators over a large number of translators and the meanings of the words themselves?

    No. If I had translated ASL that way in a courtroom, with such license, I would be stripped of my certification and vilified by the entire Deaf Community. If I am expected to make a literal dynamic equivalent of what a judge says in court when I translate, then so is every translator. YES, they made a mistake. I say that as an interpreter and translator. I say that also as someone following the RID Code of Ethics for interpreters.

    I want evidence that the word "Graven" belongs in here.
     
  2. sunlover1

    sunlover1 Beloved, Let us love one another

    +4,173
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Others
    You disregard each piece of evidence as wrong per your opinion.
    Like I said, can't blame you for not believing what doesn't fit
    into your own paradigm. I'm sure we all do that.
    You have a blessed evening!
     
  3. sculleywr

    sculleywr Orthodox Colitis Survivor

    +619
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Engaged
    US-Others
    I have given the evidence of the definitions of the word. and several Translations which don't include that. I could also include the Septuagint, which uses the word "Eidolon", which only means Idol. That was translated by the Jews before Christ. Think they might know what it meant better than English speakers today?

    Let's see. Translators is all you got. I have those too. I am one.

    I also have the definitions of the words and the historical translation used by Jesus Christ Himself and His Apostles. I don't need to worry about a molehill of evidence when there is a mountain on the other end of the scale
     
  4. sunlover1

    sunlover1 Beloved, Let us love one another

    +4,173
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Others
    [FONT=Palatino Linotype,Athena]
    Septuagint:
    [/FONT][FONT=Palatino Linotype,Athena][FONT=Palatino Linotype,Athena]8 ἐγὼ Κύριος ὁ Θεός, τοῦτό μού ἐστι τὸ ὄνομα· τὴν δόξαν μου ἑτέρῳ οὐ δώσω οὐδὲ τὰς ἀρετάς μου τοῖς γλυπτοῖς.
    [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Palatino Linotype,Athena][FONT=Palatino Linotype,Athena][FONT=Palatino Linotype,Athena]8 I am the Lord God: that is my name: I will not give my glory to another, nor my praises to graven images.[/FONT]
    [/FONT]4 οὐκ ἐπακολουθήσετε εἰδώλοις καὶ θεοὺς χωνευτοὺς οὐ ποιήσετε ὑμῖν· ἐγὼ Κύριος ὁ Θεὸς ὑμῶν.
    [/FONT][FONT=Palatino Linotype,Athena]4 Ye shall not follow idols, and ye shall not make to yourselves molten gods: I [am] the Lord your God.[/FONT]
     
  5. sunlover1

    sunlover1 Beloved, Let us love one another

    +4,173
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Others
    Hebrew Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance)
    Key Word Studies (Translations-Definitions-Meanings)

    » H6456 «

    #6456 פָּסִיל [email protected] {pes-eel'} from H6458; TWOT - 1788b; n m

    —Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

    1) image, idol, graven image

    —Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)


    From H6458; an idol:—carved (graven) image, quarry.
    —Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)


    • #6456.
    • פָּסִיל
    • pasil (820d); from 6458; an idol, image
    • NASB - carved images(6), engraved images(1), graven images(7), idols(8), images(1).

    —NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries

    Copyright © 1981, 1998 by The Lockman Foundation — All rights reserved — http://www.lockman.org AV - graven images 18, carved images 3, quarries 2; 23 imagesDeuteronomy 7:5, 25; 12:3. 2 Kings 17:41. 2 Chronicles 33:19, 22; 34:3, 4, 7. Psalms 78:58. Isaiah 10:10; 21:9; 30:22; 42:8. Jeremiah 8:19; 50:38; 51:47, 52. Hosea 11:2. Micah 1:7; 5:13. quarriesJudges 3:19, 26.
    —Exhaustive Concordance (KJV Translation Frequency & Location)
     
  6. Fireinfolding

    Fireinfolding ....

    +3,327
    Christian
    Married
    If you'd like to go into actions sure. Censing images is shown, bowing before them, kissing baal, kissing calves and all that is spoken of.

    Should we start a new thread or go into that here?

    I gotta head out for the day in a few minutes though, got some errands with the hubby to make
     
  7. Thekla

    Thekla Guest

    +0
    What makes them "different" ?


    You view seems to imply that the physical body defines the living of the koinonia in the body of Christ.

    We do not say that we know God's judgement outcome at our own completion of the earthly sojourn.
     
  8. Thekla

    Thekla Guest

    +0
    All Christians are toward the "hearing" in the Holy Spirit; it is not a physical phenomenon.

    And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it. 1 Corinthians 12:26

    This is a characteristic of the body of Christ.
     
  9. Thekla

    Thekla Guest

    +0
    :thumbsup: The number you are thinking of !
     
  10. Standing Up

    Standing Up On and on

    +2,539
    Christian
    Private
    I was wondering then, how people who think that believe there are saints in heaven? If you don't know yours, how in the world would you know Mary's?

    OTOH, you have made a powerful argument for OSAS, albeit we do know and cannot fail because of His love for us.
     
  11. Thekla

    Thekla Guest

    +0
    The effect of the prayer that is offered, for one ...

    It seems, per my understanding of the teaching, that OSAS presumes to know (prolepsis ?) the forward span of the person's life, as well as the fulness of the mind of God. This is not what I have claimed in my discussion.
     
  12. sunlover1

    sunlover1 Beloved, Let us love one another

    +4,173
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Others
    So you ARE or ARENT saying this:
    God hears the prayer and then tells the "saint'
    and then the "saint prays to God
    for you??

    (GOD being = Holy Spirit)
     
  13. sunlover1

    sunlover1 Beloved, Let us love one another

    +4,173
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Others


    So it's TRUE!!!
    :cheer:
    Gotta get up pretty early in the morning to keep up with thekla ;)

    Wait, what was it we were talking about?
    :p
     
  14. Thekla

    Thekla Guest

    +0
    One thing here; you have the description in a "created time mode".

    Our sense of time is an effect of the physical body; the zoe/spiritual life is participation of eternal life or God's "time" ie above time.

    Physical hearing is a matter of proximity; spiritual hearing is not an effect of physical proximity (as in the man from Macedoniki praying Paul who was not in physical proximity to the man). Paul heard the man's prayer to him in God; ie "heard/saw" above time and space (which is bound with time and to our perception of it).

    So beyond that I cannot say; that would be to speculate.
    What I do know is the teaching/demonstration of Holy Scripture on the body of Christ, and those who have completed their sojourn, and also the empirical evidence.

    What is in Christ is with Christ; the body of Christ has characteristics and this is consistent with these.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2013
  15. sunlover1

    sunlover1 Beloved, Let us love one another

    +4,173
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Others
    So yes, it's all speculation?

    Yes, a close friend was asked by her (RC) church to pray for a man's
    cancer but to pray TO a woman who'd passed because "she" needed
    so many miracles attributed to her name to attain 'sainthood"

    My friend suggestted (and my point too for this thread)
    that IF the man's cancer left, that would prove nothing
    about the deceased woman's saintliness.
    Neighbors or relatives could be praying
    ... To God.
     
  16. Rhamiel

    Rhamiel Member of the Round Table

    +8,766
    Catholic
    Single
    that does seem to be a good point
     
  17. Standing Up

    Standing Up On and on

    +2,539
    Christian
    Private
    Good point.
     
  18. Standing Up

    Standing Up On and on

    +2,539
    Christian
    Private
    No problem. Just wondering how anyone knows whether Mary ended her life in God's love? Bible doesn't say. Certainly we'd all assume so. But why? OSAS is a powerful reason. IOW, since we don't know about Mary, but we assume she "made it", then why not assume that for the rest of Christians?
     
  19. Standing Up

    Standing Up On and on

    +2,539
    Christian
    Private
    What do you think about this;

    I was wondering then, how people who believe that Mary is in heaven, know this? The bible doesn't say. Certainly tradition says so, but why? Is it because of OSAS?

    Albeit we do not really know about Mary, but OSAS says she's there.
     
  20. sunlover1

    sunlover1 Beloved, Let us love one another

    +4,173
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Others
    That's what I said too!
    But she got ostracized from her church :(
    It was a dark time.

    SN
    I have no idea how the gentleman's cancer turned out.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...