Some Questions About Sola Scriptura

[Unofficial Reverand Alex]

For all my protestant brothers & sisters out here, I have some questions that I would like answered in calm & non-insulting method; do please keep this as defense of your faith, as opposed to attacks on mine. I'm posting this because I have some questions about Protestant doctrine, and would just like some clarification on them, by protestants. Sola scriptura is something that causes a lot of debate between Catholics & Protestants, so for all those who ask me questions like, "Where in the Bible does it say to pray the Rosary/Mary is sinless/pray to the saints", I pose these questions:
--Where in the Bible does it say "Read the Bible"?
--Where in the Bible does it say how to choose the books of the Bible?
--What about the word 'Trinity'? Yes, it list the 3 branches of God that make up the Trinity, and it's easy enough to agree that they make a trinity; but referring to it as the Holy Trinity seems like Church tradition, contrary to sola scriptura
--More questions to come as I think of them, I know I had more. Eh, I guess the Holy Spirit wants us to focus on these 3 for now.
If you're interested, this site gives some very good information on Church tradition, for those of you interested in the Catholic view: Scripture and Tradition | Catholic Answers

 

[dreadnought]

For all my protestant brothers & sisters out here, I have some questions that I would like answered in calm & non-insulting method; do please keep this as defense of your faith, as opposed to attacks on mine. I'm posting this because I have some questions about Protestant doctrine, and would just like some clarification on them, by protestants. Sola scriptura is something that causes a lot of debate between Catholics & Protestants, so for all those who ask me questions like, "Where in the Bible does it say to pray the Rosary/Mary is sinless/pray to the saints", I pose these questions:
--Where in the Bible does it say "Read the Bible"?
--Where in the Bible does it say how to choose the books of the Bible?
--What about the word 'Trinity'? Yes, it list the 3 branches of God that make up the Trinity, and it's easy enough to agree that they make a trinity; but referring to it as the Holy Trinity seems like Church tradition, contrary to sola scriptura
--More questions to come as I think of them, I know I had more. Eh, I guess the Holy Spirit wants us to focus on these 3 for now.
If you're interested, this site gives some very good information on Church tradition, for those of you interested in the Catholic view: Scripture and Tradition | Catholic Answers

There is a wide variety of beliefs among Protestants. I can't think of a single issue where all Protestants would agree. And even in my own denomination there is a wide variety of beliefs.

 

[Unofficial Reverand Alex]

There is a wide variety of beliefs among Protestants. I can't think of a single issue where all Protestants would agree. And even in my own denomination there is a wide variety of beliefs.

I'm just targeting those that believe in the Bible and the Bible alone, no tradition.
For some reason, what you said triggered a couple more questions I had for those who don't believe in Sacred Tradition:
--Where does the Bible say to move the Sabbath to Sunday, and where does it say that we should have Mass? Or build churches? Or have Mass at churches, as opposed to parks or people's homes?

 

[dreadnought]

I'm just targeting those that believe in the Bible and the Bible alone, no tradition.
For some reason, what you said triggered a couple more questions I had for those who don't believe in Sacred Tradition:
--Where does the Bible say to move the Sabbath to Sunday, and where does it say that we should have Mass? Or build churches? Or have Mass at churches, as opposed to parks or people's homes?

Where does Jesus tell us to obey tradition? I'm not aware that he does. If tradition contradicts the Lord's commandments, the tradition has to go. But as far as the Bible goes, do you put the teachings of Paul on the same level as the teachings of Jesus?

What makes people think Saturday is the last day of the week? Hebrews 10:25 teaches us to meet together. I don't think it matters where.

 

[royal priest]

The issue at heart is whether holding to 'sola scriptura' leaves room for church tradition. The answer is yes. Protestants have their own traditions, however they are careful (or ought to be) to make sure their traditions are subservient to the word of God. For instance, they accept and adhere to certain councils of the early church because those councils formulate doctrines which can be clearly demonstrated from the canon of Scripture. However, there are practices of the Roman Church which not only fail the test of biblical demonstration, but even go against it. This was the essential catalyst of the Protestant Reformation.

While many of the Church of Rome's traditions grew out of and are maintained on the basis of the authority of the Church, Protestant churches view all tradition, even those doctrines arrived at by councils and creeds are subservient to the authority of Scripture. Therefore, 'reformed' Protestant churches, especially,maintain the position of 'ecclessia reformada, semper reformanda' reformed church, always reforming. Scripture is the reformed churches beacon to which she will always turn. If at any point it has been discovered that her tradition of practices, confessions, or creeds do not align with Scripture, she will reform accordingly.

 

[PollyJetix]

I doubt that even one Protestant denomination is truly free from dependence on tradition.
And yet, when I look at how the "catholic" ... "church"... has attempted to establish itself as the final authority over how Scripture must be interpreted... and how obviously flawed her decisions and edicts have been down through the centuries (persecuting and killing dissenters, for instance) then I am left with only one conclusion:

Sola Scriptura, AS ILLUMINATED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT.
And it's up to each of us, to draw as near to God as possible, and to be filled with the Holy Spirit as fully as possible.

--Where in the Bible does it say "Read the Bible"?
--Where in the Bible does it say how to choose the books of the Bible?
--What about the word 'Trinity'? Yes, it list the 3 branches of God that make up the Trinity, and it's easy enough to agree that they make a trinity; but referring to it as the Holy Trinity seems like Church tradition, contrary to sola scriptura

1. The concept is all through Scripture. "Oh, how love I thy Law! It is my meditation all the day."
2. God cannot lie. As long as a book does not contradict anything God had spoken before, it's acceptable. Otherwise, God would be lying.
3. I only use the term "holy" in "The Holy Trinity" as a descriptive term. Not as a title.

--Where does the Bible say to move the Sabbath to Sunday, and where does it say that we should have Mass? Or build churches? Or have Mass at churches, as opposed to parks or people's homes?

4. It doesn't. Instead, Paul says we are free to either observe one day above another, or to keep every day alike. Romans 14:5
5. It never sys to have "Mass". All it tells us to to partake of bread and wine in remembrance of Him. And it's not necessary to have clergy present to partake in remembrance of Him.
6. Church buildings? Not necessary. The early church met in homes.
7. We are free to meet wherever we wish, in His Name. Matthew 18:20

 

[Shempster]

Where does Jesus tell us to obey tradition? I'm not aware that he does. If tradition contradicts the Lord's commandments, the tradition has to go.

Actually almost all religious traditions contradict the commands of Jesus. Read Matthew 5 & 6. Then ask yourself if church tradition REFLECTS them or REJECTS them. Stop after each commandment and ponder it. (obviously there are more but Matt 5 & 6 has a string of them connected)
Why, you'll be surprised.

 

[PollyJetix]

Actually almost all religious traditions contradict the commands of Jesus. Read Matthew 5 & 6. Then ask yourself if church tradition REFLECTS them or REJECTS them. Stop after each commandment and ponder it. (obviously there are more but Matt 5 & 6 has a string of them connected)
Why, you'll be surprised.

That is profoundly true.
And the reason is that His ways are higher than ours. His way of thinking is higher than human thinking.
Often, human reasoning is backwards from God's ways.
We struggle to push others down, to become great. He says the way to become great, is to humble yourself and serve others.
Humans think we must save up and hoard for ourselves, to be secure.
But He says true financial security is only through the Father... and by laying up our treasure in heaven... by giving money away to the poor!
We tend to feel secure in religious rituals, because it makes us comfortable... and we confuse emotional comfort with spiritual comfort... which is only gained through non-ritualistic encounter with the Living God.
Oh, how He must long to do away with our little boxes we try to contain Him in!
But we love those boxes. They make us feel safe. In control.

 

[Phil 1:21]

The whole thing comes down to whether or not you put the words of men at the same level as the word of God.

 

[Willie T]

For all my protestant brothers & sisters out here, I have some questions that I would like answered in calm & non-insulting method; do please keep this as defense of your faith, as opposed to attacks on mine. I'm posting this because I have some questions about Protestant doctrine, and would just like some clarification on them, by protestants. Sola scriptura is something that causes a lot of debate between Catholics & Protestants, so for all those who ask me questions like, "Where in the Bible does it say to pray the Rosary/Mary is sinless/pray to the saints", I pose these questions:
--Where in the Bible does it say "Read the Bible"?
--Where in the Bible does it say how to choose the books of the Bible?
--What about the word 'Trinity'? Yes, it list the 3 branches of God that make up the Trinity, and it's easy enough to agree that they make a trinity; but referring to it as the Holy Trinity seems like Church tradition, contrary to sola scriptura
--More questions to come as I think of them, I know I had more. Eh, I guess the Holy Spirit wants us to focus on these 3 for now.
If you're interested, this site gives some very good information on Church tradition, for those of you interested in the Catholic view: Scripture and Tradition | Catholic Answers

Here are a few answers to your first question

Joshua 1:8 “This book of the law shall not depart out of your mouth; but you shall meditate therein day and night, that you may observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then you shall make your way prosperous, and then you shall have good success.”

You cannot meditate on the Word without first reading it and here it mentions that the” book of the law shall not depart out of your mouth” which indicates that it should be verbally spoken. The effect of meditating on the Word of God and speaking it is so that we may “observe to do according to all that it written therein” and that will make it possible to “make [our] way prosperous, and then [we] shall have good success.” The prosperity that this is talking about isn’t financial prosperity necessarily but has in mind the life of the person who first reads it, then observes it, and finally to know that what is written in it shows us how we can prosper and be successful, but not by worldly standards but according to God’s standard.

Nehemiah 8:3 “And he read from it facing the square before the Water Gate from early morning until midday, in the presence of the men and the women and those who could understand. And the ears of all the people were attentive to the Book of the Law.”

I have heard that most sermons average about 23 minutes or so and one man said that little sermonettes only produce little Christianettes. Here though, Ezra read from the Book of the Law from early morning until midday which means that Ezra probably read from the Scriptures for at least 4 hours (possibly more). Israel stood in holy, reverential respect during the reading and the people showed respect for the reading of the Word as it says all “the ears of all the people were attentive to the Book of the Law” (Neh 8:3c).

Romans 10:17 “So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.”

Faith comes as a natural result of hearing the Word of Christ and since Jesus is the Word (John 1) the Word must be heard by speaking it in order for people to hear about faith in Christ. It is assumed that through their “hearing” it was spoken by someone. We know that Stephen, prior to his death, verbally gave the Bible’s story of redemption and that Paul used the Word to convince many of the Jews in the Synagogue that Jesus was the Messiah and as a result many came to place their trust in Him. Paul asks the rhetorical question, “How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them” (Rom 10:14). They could not have heard the Word if it had not first been spoken and how could they have ever been saved if they hadn’t heard the word about the One Who came to take their sins away?

Hebrews 4:12 “For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”

The Word of God has real power and it has the ability to cut to the joints and the marrow but it cuts in order to heal. It discerns our very thoughts and intents that are unseen by human eyes. The Word is powerful and sharp enough to cut down into the innermost thoughts of mankind and since it’s a two-edged sword, it cuts both ways…both to the one who speaks it and to the one who hears it.

Second Timothy 3:16-17 “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”

Scriptures is God-breathed…that is, it is inspired by God Himself but it must be breathed out by human agents to in order to reprove, correct, train, and equip every believer for “every good work.” That’s why expository, verse by verse preaching is so powerful. When the Word of God is read in front of the congregation, it unleashes God’s own power (Rom 1:16) and there is assurance that His Word will achieve what He sent it out for (Isaiah 55:11). The only perfect part of worship services is the reading of the Word for it is perfect.

Psalm 119:11 “I have stored up your word in my heart, that I might not sin against you.”

The psalmist declared that he has stored up God’s Word in his heart or basically memorized it. When Jesus was tempted in the wilderness by Satan, Jesus always quoted Scripture to rebuff and rebuke the Devil. The Devil always misquotes Scripture but if someone memorizes the Word of God in context, they have a storehouse of powerful weapons to defend against temptations and tests and carry them through severe trials and tribulations. Store it up because you’ll most certainly need it.

Job 23:12 “I have not departed from the commandment of his lips; I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my portion of food.”

Job was under severe attack from Satan and since he had already treasured God’s Word, he was better equipped to remain steadfast in his faith and trust in God. He treasured God’s Word “more than [his] portion of food” since it has the power to bring eternal life. A meal can only sustain us for a time but the Word of God abides forever and for those who believe it, it leads to eternal life.

 

[royal priest]

Here are a few answers to your first question

Joshua 1:8 “This book of the law shall not depart out of your mouth; but you shall meditate therein day and night, that you may observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then you shall make your way prosperous, and then you shall have good success.”

You cannot meditate on the Word without first reading it and here it mentions that the” book of the law shall not depart out of your mouth” which indicates that it should be verbally spoken. The effect of meditating on the Word of God and speaking it is so that we may “observe to do according to all that it written therein” and that will make it possible to “make [our] way prosperous, and then [we] shall have good success.” The prosperity that this is talking about isn’t financial prosperity necessarily but has in mind the life of the person who first reads it, then observes it, and finally to know that what is written in it shows us how we can prosper and be successful, but not by worldly standards but according to God’s standard.

Nehemiah 8:3 “And he read from it facing the square before the Water Gate from early morning until midday, in the presence of the men and the women and those who could understand. And the ears of all the people were attentive to the Book of the Law.”

I have heard that most sermons average about 23 minutes or so and one man said that little sermonettes only produce little Christianettes. Here though, Ezra read from the Book of the Law from early morning until midday which means that Ezra probably read from the Scriptures for at least 4 hours (possibly more). Israel stood in holy, reverential respect during the reading and the people showed respect for the reading of the Word as it says all “the ears of all the people were attentive to the Book of the Law” (Neh 8:3c).

Romans 10:17 “So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.”

Faith comes as a natural result of hearing the Word of Christ and since Jesus is the Word (John 1) the Word must be heard by speaking it in order for people to hear about faith in Christ. It is assumed that through their “hearing” it was spoken by someone. We know that Stephen, prior to his death, verbally gave the Bible’s story of redemption and that Paul used the Word to convince many of the Jews in the Synagogue that Jesus was the Messiah and as a result many came to place their trust in Him. Paul asks the rhetorical question, “How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them” (Rom 10:14). They could not have heard the Word if it had not first been spoken and how could they have ever been saved if they hadn’t heard the word about the One Who came to take their sins away?

Hebrews 4:12 “For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”

The Word of God has real power and it has the ability to cut to the joints and the marrow but it cuts in order to heal. It discerns our very thoughts and intents that are unseen by human eyes. The Word is powerful and sharp enough to cut down into the innermost thoughts of mankind and since it’s a two-edged sword, it cuts both ways…both to the one who speaks it and to the one who hears it.

Second Timothy 3:16-17 “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”

Scriptures is God-breathed…that is, it is inspired by God Himself but it must be breathed out by human agents to in order to reprove, correct, train, and equip every believer for “every good work.” That’s why expository, verse by verse preaching is so powerful. When the Word of God is read in front of the congregation, it unleashes God’s own power (Rom 1:16) and there is assurance that His Word will achieve what He sent it out for (Isaiah 55:11). The only perfect part of worship services is the reading of the Word for it is perfect.

Psalm 119:11 “I have stored up your word in my heart, that I might not sin against you.”

The psalmist declared that he has stored up God’s Word in his heart or basically memorized it. When Jesus was tempted in the wilderness by Satan, Jesus always quoted Scripture to rebuff and rebuke the Devil. The Devil always misquotes Scripture but if someone memorizes the Word of God in context, they have a storehouse of powerful weapons to defend against temptations and tests and carry them through severe trials and tribulations. Store it up because you’ll most certainly need it.

Job 23:12 “I have not departed from the commandment of his lips; I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my portion of food.”

Job was under severe attack from Satan and since he had already treasured God’s Word, he was better equipped to remain steadfast in his faith and trust in God. He treasured God’s Word “more than [his] portion of food” since it has the power to bring eternal life. A meal can only sustain us for a time but the Word of God abides forever and for those who believe it, it leads to eternal life.

Thank you, Willie T!

 

[Sketcher]

Sola scriptura is something that causes a lot of debate between Catholics & Protestants, so for all those who ask me questions like, "Where in the Bible does it say to pray the Rosary/Mary is sinless/pray to the saints", I pose these questions:
--Where in the Bible does it say "Read the Bible"?

That's in no way an equivalent question to "Where in the Bible does it say to pray to the saints," as reading the Bible has self-evident value to both Catholics and Protestants, but praying to the saints does not have this self-evident value to Protestants. If you're going to judge a doctrine or a practice by what Scripture says or doesn't say about it, reading the Scripture is a given.

--Where in the Bible does it say how to choose the books of the Bible?

Nowhere, but that does not validate including the deuterocanocial books.

--What about the word 'Trinity'? Yes, it list the 3 branches of God that make up the Trinity, and it's easy enough to agree that they make a trinity; but referring to it as the Holy Trinity seems like Church tradition, contrary to sola scriptura

The Trinity is a theological conclusion that presents itself upon study of the Scriptures. The non-Trinitarian heresies fell short of describing the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit faithfully to what is in the Scriptures.

Beyond the bullet points, it seems that you misunderstand what Protestants mean by Sola Scriptura. It does not mean that traditions do not have their place and value - in fact, the Scripture records the earliest traditions. The later ones that came up, the issues that we protest - given what we see in Scripture, they are not among the earliest traditions.

 

[BryanJohnMaloney]

If tradition contradicts the Lord's commandments, the tradition has to go.

Funny, but every Catholic and Orthodox Christian I personally know would agree with that statement.

 

[BryanJohnMaloney]

Nowhere, but that does not validate including the deuterocanocial books.

But what makes them "deuterocanonical" other than traditions of men that relegate them to that status?

 

[BryanJohnMaloney]

Nobody actually practices strictest Sola Scriptura, no matter how much they might claim to. The moment that you try to apply any bit of Scripture to something that is not immediately within Scripture, you must resort to something other than Scripture, even if that is only your own reasoning.

 

[Tigger45]

Nobody actually practices strictest Sola Scriptura, no matter how much they might claim to. The moment that you try to apply any bit of Scripture to something that is not immediately within Scripture, you must resort to something other than Scripture, even if that is only your own reasoning.

You’re conflating sola scriptura with nuda scriptura.

 

[Sketcher]

But what makes them "deuterocanonical" other than traditions of men that relegate them to that status?

The canonical books of the Old Testament had stronger evidence of divine inspiration than the deuterocanonical books. Since Christianity doesn't depend on these books either, it doesn't make sense to make them equal with the books of either Testament of Scripture.

 

[BryanJohnMaloney]

You’re conflating sola scriptura with nuda scriptura.

You're splitting hairs.

 

[BryanJohnMaloney]

The canonical books of the Old Testament had stronger evidence of divine inspiration than the deuterocanonical books. Since Christianity doesn't depend on these books either, it doesn't make sense to make them equal with the books of either Testament of Scripture.

What specific "evidence"? What Signs and Wonders indicated this, or was it all still merely research done by men?

 

[Tigger45]

You're splitting hairs.

You need to do your research before posting assertions.