Solution to the creation/evolution debate...?

[Neogaia777]

No, not really.

Ah, sorry, I thought you knew what a logical argument was. You did not support your proposition with reasonable premises from which it would naturally follow by inference or deduction. Does that help?


I smell an equivocation of 'argue'... I don't mean 'having a fractious debate', but 'supporting a proposition with reasonable premises'.

What kind of reasonable premise or premises do you think would be reasonable enough for you in this case that I am making, or am trying to make here, etc...?

And I also think you're just saying what you are saying as just another way of saying "it's not logical, because it's just not logical!" yet again, etc, as if that's just supposed to be the "end all and be all of it all", etc, which is not very reasonable or logical at all, etc...?

Which is just the exact same as those who say to me "It's heresy, just because it's just heresy!" and are thinking that should be the "end all and be all of it all" also, etc...?

Until I ask them "why" of course, or "how so", etc, and then they cannot give an answer, etc...

And you are, right now, just doing the very same, etc...

And I'm really not trying to present a case even, but just simply present a possibility, like I have already said, etc...

Look, why don't you just simply tell me what is not logical or reasonable about what I have been saying, or have just said, and/or how it directly contradicts basic simple human logic and/or reason, and let's just go or start from there, ok...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

The "other side" would be the more scientifically-minded... they're convinced by new facts, not by new and creative means to interpret old facts.

Certainly you can try to appeal to their logic and/or reason though, right...?

Because maybe some have not believed only because they could not find a very logical or reasonable way to believe maybe...?

Surely there are a few of those, right...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Certainly you can try to appeal to their logic and/or reason though, right...?

Because maybe some have not believed only because they could not find a very logical or reasonable way to believe maybe...?

Surely there are a few of those, right...?

God Bless!

@TLK Valentine

Or that maybe have not found a way that it can be reconciled with modern day science or whatever maybe, etc...?

Surely there are a few of those, right...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

@FrumiousBandersnatch

"Reasonable Premise"...?

OK...? Well then you tell me how my previous statements are not logical...?

Because that is all a "logical/reasonable premise" is, etc...

So let's not get all "tripped up", over "mere words", etc, OK...

But let's just "shoot straight", and get "straight to the point", OK...

Because I think I have been being "very logical and/or reasonable", etc...

God Bless!

 

[TLK Valentine]

Certainly you can try to appeal to their logic and/or reason though, right...?

Because maybe some have not believed only because they could not find a very logical or reasonable way to believe maybe...?

Surely there are a few of those, right...?

God Bless!

The people who embrace literalism and/or fundamentalism don't do it because of logic or reason -- they do it for fear.

Fundamentalism isn't a movement towards a belief system as it is a movement against something perceived as a threat to their way of life -- in this case, science in general, and evolution in partcular.

Those who do not embrace a pov rationally are less likely to be dissuaded rationally.

 

[TLK Valentine]

@TLK Valentine

Or that maybe have not found a way that it can be reconciled with modern day science or whatever maybe, etc...?

Surely there are a few of those, right...?

God Bless!

Too few -- literalists and fundamentalists don't want reconciliation or compromise -- they want authority and power.

"Modern day science" isn't just wrong, it's evil. It is meant to be defeated, not reconciled. 2 Corinthians 6:14, don't you know...

 

[Neogaia777]

The people who embrace literalism and/or fundamentalism don't do it because of logic or reason -- they do it for fear.

Fundamentalism isn't a movement towards a belief system as it is a movement against something perceived as a threat to their way of life -- in this case, science in general, and evolution in partcular.

Those who do not embrace a pov rationally are less likely to be dissuaded rationally.

Well, I'll try to reach on the other side of the isle then if I have to, etc...

And they can all go "you know where" with themselves, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Too few -- literalists and fundamentalists don't want reconciliation or compromise -- they want authority and power.

"Modern day science" isn't just wrong, it's evil. It is meant to be defeated, not reconciled. 2 Corinthians 6:14, don't you know...

I love science and do not at all think it's "evil", etc...

And I think it's very sad that there is and/or has been such a divide because of the kinds of things you are saying, etc...

Wonder what Jesus would have to say about that or these things today, etc...?

He had to reach across the isle a lot in his day too because of some very similar things I think, etc...

Just look at how he was with the religious leaders and/or authorities of his day, etc...

But not with the rest of the people, etc...

He even called them "children of the devil", etc, along with a lot of other things, etc...

And we all know a lot of things, just do not ever change, etc, but just changes faces, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I love science and do not at all think it's "evil", etc...

And I think it's very sad that there is and/or has been such a divide because of the kinds of things you are saying, etc...

Wonder what Jesus would have to say about that or these things today, etc...?

He had to reach across the isle a lot in his day too because of some very similar things I think, etc...

Just look at how he was with the religious leaders and/or authorities of his day, etc...

But not with the rest of the people, etc...

He even called them "children of the devil", etc, along with a lot of other things, etc...

And we all know a lot of things, just do not ever change, etc, but just changes faces, etc...

God Bless!

Bottom line is, Jesus held all the religious leaders of his day solely responsible for all the work(s) of Satan in and on the earth, etc...

Not the politicians of other nations, or the common people, etc, but the Jewish religious leaders of his day, etc...

Because of their corruption, and their fully embracing that form of corruption in that position, etc, they had actually become children of the Devil, and were directly responsible for that ones work in the earth, and were actually doing his work(s) actually, and not the works of true righteousness that they claimed to be doing/saying/preaching/claiming, etc...

And do you really think a whole lot has changed...? Or has maybe just changed faces, etc...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Bottom line is, Jesus held all the religious leaders of his day solely responsible for all the work(s) of Satan in and on the earth, etc...

Not the politicians of other nations, or the common people, etc, but the Jewish religious leaders of his day, etc...

Because of their corruption, and their fully embracing that form of corruption, etc, they had actually become children of the Devil, and were directly responsible for that ones work in the earth, and were actually doing his work(s) actually, and not the works of true righteousness that they claimed to be doing/saying/preaching/claiming, etc...

And do you really think a whole lot has changed...? Or has maybe just changed faces, etc...?

God Bless!

And I do watch and listen to some pastors and preachers over the radio and/or on TV, etc, but I also have to avoid a lot of them, like 75-80% of them, because I will get into a very heated argument, or knock down drag out fight with them over my TV or radio, if I do engage with them, etc, and I think many of them are straight up flat out devils, etc, quite very much literally, etc...

And I do not ever engage with certain ones of them unless I'm looking for a fight, etc, because then, as they say, it is most usually "on like donkey kong" most usually, etc, if I do choose to engage with certain ones of them, etc...

So I don't do it unless I'm purposely and on purpose looking for a fight, etc...

Which I do sometimes do sometimes, but that's a whole other story, etc...

Not absolutely all of them are devils though I don't think, etc, but like I said, maybe 75-80% of them more than likely are right now in my opinion, etc...

And even among the ones I do like or do listen to or do watch sometimes, it seems like "a devil" can be in them temporarily sometimes, but I sometimes let that slide with some of them sometimes...

"Sometimes" anyway sometimes, etc...

God Bless!

 

[coffee4u]

People the Genesis was written to, were not thinking scientifically, but mytologically. They wanted to see relationships between things and meaning in the creation. They did not care at all about what we care about today - how it exactly happened or what is the chemistry of our bodies.

And Genesis was given to them in the language they understood and expected. We cannot read it with today's view (we like technical, materialistic descriptions). Its a dramatical poetry, a story. They loved stories.

This is a good video about it:

It doesn't matter how they thought or understood. When God had the words written down they were for all people through all of time, not just the people alive at the time. The words are for us as much as it was for them.

When God gave the ancient Israelite hygiene and quarantine laws he didn't explain germ theory, he told them do do certain things and all they had to do was obey.

Yes we can read it literally today, many of us do. It is not written the way Hebrew poetry is written and if as you claim it's meant to be read some other way then there should be some scriptural backup for that claim. Don't pretend that you are forced to read it in some other way, you choose to do so.

 

[TLK Valentine]

It doesn't matter how they thought or understood. When God had the words written down they were for all people through all of time, not just the people alive at the time. The words are for us as much as it was for them.

When God gave the ancient Israelite hygiene and quarantine laws he didn't explain germ theory, he told them do do certain things and all they had to do was obey.

Yes we can read it literally today, many of us do. It is not written the way Hebrew poetry is written and if as you claim it's meant to be read some other way then there should be some scriptural backup for that claim. Don't pretend that you are forced to read it in some other way, you choose to do so.

I, for one, have no intention of claiming "force" by anything except my own common sense.

 

[coffee4u]

But we want details and reasons... and we have the means to find them.

Wanting details and reasons is what the mind wants, to feed self. It's the selfish nature that believes it can know all things by the power of ones own intellect.

And no you don't have the means, the world as God created it is gone. The only world we have now is the corrupted one. Whatever is tested and measured is from a contaminated sample. Would you accept them using a contaminated sample in any other area? No.
This is the downfall of mankind thinking we have all the answers and know things that we don't, its all part of the religion of self.

Serpent, not Satan...

And maybe Genesis 3 shouldn't be your go-to here... because even the Bible says that everything the serpent said in Genesis 3:5 came true a mere two verses later.

If the Serpent is Satan, and Satan is a liar, he won this round by telling the truth. Is that the lesson you want to teach here?

And (I'm just referring to LaVey's Satanism) it makes no attempt to hide or lie about this fact. Once again, truth.

Satan is the serpent also known as a dragon and the deceiver and some other names.
He never tells the truth.
John 8:44
He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

History, to be sure -- if one is willing to separate the grain from the chaff.
Future? Very iffy.

The future will be that God is going to burn this world up with fire, remake it back to how it was- and that won't be back to some primordial soup but back to how Eden was.
2 Peter 3:10–13
"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

Isaiah 11:6–9
"The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall graze; their young ones shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play by the cobra's hole, and the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper's den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea."

 

[TLK Valentine]

Wanting details and reasons is what the mind wants, to feed self. It's the selfish nature that believes it can know all things by the power of ones own intellect.

And it's worked pretty well for us so far.

And no you don't have the means, the world as God created it is gone. The only world we have now is the corrupted one. Whatever is tested and measured is from a contaminated sample. Would you accept them using a contaminated sample in any other area? No.

Actually, I would -- even a broken machine can give you insight as to how it works.

This is the downfall of mankind thinking we have all the answers and know things that we don't, its all part of the religion of self.

Except we don't have all the answers -- we're looking for them. What do you gain from trying to stop us?

Satan is the serpent also known as a dragon and the deceiver and some other names.
He never tells the truth.
John 8:44
He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Which has nothing to do with Eden, I'm sorry to tell you. Read it for your yourself and tell me where the lies were.

The future will be that God is going to burn this world up with fire, remake it back to how it was- and that won't be back to some primordial soup but back to how Eden was.

It must infuriate you to no end that so few people are willing to take your word for it.

 

[AV1611VET]

Which has nothing to do with Eden, I'm sorry to tell you. Read it for your yourself and tell me where the lies were.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

[TLK Valentine]

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

That doesn't tell me where the lie was.
Which is a shame, as Paul of all people should've known better.

 

[Neogaia777]

Well, this probably belongs in the ethics and morality forum, but, have you checked it out lately...?

And also the study of it itself in general, etc...?

Because to me it seems, we are only getting further and further away from knowing good from evil, etc, and most especially, "absolute good from absolute evil", etc...

And if we ever did ever get it all figured out for sure, and for absolutely sure ever either way I think, etc, I think we just might die, or maybe could just possibly die, etc...?

But since we seem to only be moving only further and further away from it right now, I guess we'll probably never know, etc, or at least, will not know anytime soon for sure, etc...

So it could have been a lie, etc...?

And I also don't know that it would even necessarily make us like God either; and/or even if we could either, etc...?

So it could have been a lie...?

I for one, think we should be thankful for our ignorance in that area right now maybe for one, etc...

Who knows what would happen to us or with us if we ever did get it all figured out for sure, etc...?

We might explode, or implode, or something, etc...?

Anyway, I for one thank God that we're not even anywhere close to it right now, etc...

And even think that our "morality" right now, is even much better-off right now because of it right now, etc...

It shows mercy, and makes exceptions, and shows compassion right now, for one, and doesn't just kill everyone, etc...

And I think that is pretty good place to be right now, until we do get it figured out, if we ever do, etc...

God Bless!

 

[AV1611VET]

That doesn't tell me where the lie was.

Would you know it, if you saw it?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Would you know it, if you saw it?

Would you?

 

[AV1611VET]

Would you?

Yes.

Why don't you show it to me?

Or can you?

(C'mon now. I'm one or two posts away from saying: THANKS FOR THE QED. )