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Clare73

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Yes, as I presented in post #64, that is the meaning of justification in the Greek dikaiosis--putting one in right standing with justice, a sentence of acquittal of guilt, a declaration of rightwise standing with the law.


Agreed, as I presented in post #64, the cross reconciles the born again to God by forgiveness of their sin, which saves them from God's wrath (Ro 5:9) and condemnation (Ro 5:18) on their sin.

The Catholic Church teaches that justification, the act by which a person is made right with God, is a process that involves both grace and human cooperation.

Yes, as I presented in post #64,
justification/dikaiosis (forensic righteousness) is through faith (Ro 3:28) by grace, as is salvation (Eph 2:8-9), while
justification/dikaiosune (actual righteousness) is by obedience in the Holy Spirit which leads to righteousness, leading to holiness (Ro 6:16, Ro 6:19) of sanctification.

According to Catholic theology, justification is a work of God's grace that begins in baptism and continues throughout a person's life as they respond to God's call to holiness.

As I presented in post #64, according to Scripture, justification is by faith alone (Ro 3:28). . .therefore, it is not by the work of baptism.
Baptism, like circumcision, places you in the people of God (Col 2:11-12), and includes you in God's earthly blessings/provision for his people.


James and Paul are talking about two different things:
Paul = operation of faith (to justification),
James = proof (justification) of faith.

In contrast, many Protestants believe that justification is a purely forensic transaction

This is a misrepresentation of Protestant Biblical belief.


And yet, as I presented in post #64, "justification (dikaiosis) by faith alone" is the explicit NT apostolic teaching of Ro 3:28.


This is a misrepresentation of Protestant Biblical belief. . .which, as I presented in post #64, is the NT apostolic teaching of
justification (dikaiosune); i.e., actual righteousness, by obedience in the Holy Spirit which leads to righteousness leading to holiness of sanctification in Ro 6:16, Ro 6:19.

It likewise being important to note that, as I presented in post #64, the Protestant Biblical understanding of justification (dikaiosune) is the obedience in the Holy Spirit, which leads to actual righteousness leading to holiness of Ro 6:16, Ro 6:18; i.e., sanctification.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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This is a misrepresentation of Protestant Biblical belief.
I dare say it is impossible to state exactly what protestants teach about justification because there are so many different teachings from the many groups of protestants.
 
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Clare73

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I dare say it is impossible to state exactly what protestants teach about justification because there are so many different teachings from the many groups of protestants.
I'm thinking in terms of the Reformers.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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I'm thinking in terms of the Reformers.
Martin Luther, John Calvin, Ulrich Zwingly, and the host of others in the 16th century did not reach consensus on the matter of justification except insofar as they all said Catholics were wrong.
 
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Clare73

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Martin Luther, John Calvin, Ulrich Zwingly, and the host of others in the 16th century did not reach consensus on the matter of justification except insofar as they all said Catholics were wrong.

How much difference was there among them?

I'm thinking it was neglegible.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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How much difference was there among them?

I'm thinking it was neglegible.
I am not a protestant nor claim to be a historian so I believe you'll receive better answers from a google academic search than I can provide.

This is the best I can do by way of explanation.

There are several different Protestant views of justification, each with their own unique understanding of how a person is made right with God. Here are a few of the main Protestant views, along with key scripture references that are often used to support them:

  1. Lutherans: Lutherans believe in "forensic justification," which means that a person is declared righteous by God through faith alone (sola fide), based on the merits of Jesus Christ. They believe that this declaration is not based on any inherent righteousness or goodness in the person, but rather on the imputed righteousness of Christ. Key scripture references include Romans 3:21-26 and 4:22-25.
  2. Reformed (Calvinists): Reformed theology also emphasizes the importance of faith alone, but they believe in the doctrine of "double imputation." This means that not only is the righteousness of Christ imputed to the believer, but the believer's sins are imputed to Christ, and he bears the punishment for them. Key scripture references include Romans 3:21-26 and 4:22-25, as well as 2 Corinthians 5:21.
  3. Wesleyans (Methodists): Wesleyans believe in "prevenient grace," which means that before a person can believe in Christ and be justified, they must first be enabled to do so by a work of God's grace in their hearts. They believe that this grace enables the person to repent, believe in Christ, and be justified. Key scripture references include Ephesians 2:8-10, and John 6:44, 65
  4. Baptists: Baptists believe that justification is by faith alone and that it is a one-time event that occurs at the point of salvation. They believe that good works and obedience to God's commands are the evidence of genuine faith, but they are not the basis for justification. Key scripture references include John 3:16, Romans 4:5, and Ephesians 2:8-9.
It's worth noting that all Protestant denominations believe in the teaching of justification by faith alone, but the way in which it is understood and explained may differ.
 
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Mark Quayle

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@Xeno.of.athens said:
In Romans 4:25, the Apostle Paul writes, "He was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification." From a Catholic perspective, this passage is understood to refer to the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross and His resurrection as the means by which humanity is justified, or made right, with God.

Yes, as I presented in post #64, that is the meaning of justification in the Greek dikaiosis--putting one in right standing with justice, a sentence of acquittal of guilt, a declaration of rightwise standing with the law.
Not to throw a monkey-wrench into the works, but it might be relevant, that, at least according to one version, the justification is not said to be effected by him being raised, but that he was raised because of our justification —it reads like this: "who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised up because of our being declared righteous." Literal Standard Version.

Strong's shows the preposition, διὰ (dia), in this passage usually translated "for", as "denoting the channel of an act: through". —Curious...
 
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Clare73

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Thanks. . .here's how I understand: "was delivered because of the offenses of us, and was raised because of the justification of us."

I understand "because of" as "for the cause of, for the reason of."
 
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Clare73

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In all of the above, they are treating of dikaiosis (Ro 3:28), not of dikaiosune (Ro 6:16, Ro 6:19).
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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In all of the above, they are treating of dikaiosis (Ro 3:28), not of dikaiosune (Ro 6:16, Ro 6:19).
Apologies for the length of this reply, it is a copy of what a lexicon has to say on the word δικαιόω

From a Catholic perspective justification is both to be "declared righteous" and to actually become righteous. One stands before God on judgement day not only appearing to be righteous but actually being righteous.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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In all of the above, they are treating of dikaiosis (Ro 3:28), not of dikaiosune (Ro 6:16, Ro 6:19).
To make what I have written as clear as I can, though I have stated this before, I add the following to my previous post.

Justification is the Catholic teaching that God forgives and declares righteous those who believe in Jesus Christ and His sacrifice for their sins. According to the Catholic Church, justification is based on God's grace and the believer's faith, and it is a free gift from God that cannot be earned by good works.

Scripture references that support the Catholic perspective on justification include:

  • Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God—not the result of works, so that no one may boast."
  • Romans 3:22-24: "This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."
  • Romans 5:1: "Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."
However, the Catholic Church also teaches that good works are important in the life of a believer, as they are a natural response to God's grace and a demonstration of faith. Good works are also necessary for salvation in the next life, as they are evidence of true faith and justification.

Scripture references that support the Catholic perspective on good works include:

  • James 2:14-26: "What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead."
  • Matthew 25:31-46: "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’"
In summary, Catholic perspective on Justification is that it is based on God's grace and the believer's faith, but also emphasizes the importance of good works as a natural response to God's grace and as evidence of true faith and justification.
 
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JoeT

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Very good thus far, but you are not finished. Christians outside the Church are pragmatic in nature, and, dare I say, lazy in nature looking to put out minimal effort. In fact, often they redefine God to be an entity that serves man. Many believe that they need only say "I believe". Some say they only need to "confess" their faith. What must must the Church do or say to be "justified". How long does it take to be "justified" and where does "perfection" come into the process - After all I want instant oats in the morning and instant justification in the day to sleep comfortably in the evening. [Matthew 5:48].

JoeT
 
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Danthemailman

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Demons have a mere intellectual assent, which James says is not saving faith (James 2:18).
Amen! In James 2:19, we read that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Big difference! Their trust and reliance are in Satan as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

In regard to works, James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)
 
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FireDragon76

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Luke 17:5-10 was frequently used by reformers to condemn the late medieval via moderna and the doctrine of the condignity of merits, something that is also foreign to Orthodox soteriology. The condignity of merits is the notion that if we do a certain amount of good works, God is obligated to reward them.

Old Catholics also reject the notion of the condignity of merits, BTW.
 
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Dan Perez

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But THE BOOK of James !:1 was written to the 12 Tribe that were scattered aboard , meaning Israel .

And Eph 2: 8 reads , By Grace // CHARIS , is in the DATIVE CASE and means personal relations , in the Singular .

ARE YE // ESTE , is a verb in the Greek Present Tense , and means NOW and in the Indicative Mood , and means you better believe it and is in the Plural .
SAVED // SOZO is a verb in the PERFECT TENSE , meaning ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED , in the PASSIVE VOICE , meaning

Christ has done the SAVING and not by Man .

Though , FAITH // PISTIS , is in the GENTIVE CASE , means by definition and Description .

THAT // TOUTO , is a Demonstration Pronoun , in the NEIUTER , meaning Male and Female .

NOT // OU , is a DISJUNCATIVE PARICIPLE NEGATIVE , means never by WORKS , NEVERRRRRRRRR.

OF YOURSELVES // HYMON is a PERSONAL POSSESSIVE PRNOUN

( IS ) THE // HO is a DEFINITE ARTICLE , that is pointing the the next Greek word

GIFT // DORON is in the NOMINATIVE CASE , means the SUBJECT , in the Slingular and in the NEUITER , meaning Male and Female .

OF GOD // THEOS , in the GENTIVE CASE and in the SLINGULAR .

So now one has to have a PASTOR or PRIEST to be saved OR produce and GOOD WORKS , EVER .

Remember Eph 2:8 an d Rom 10:9 !!

dan p
 
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Clare73

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But THE BOOK of James !:1 was written to the 12 Tribe that were scattered aboard , meaning Israel .
All in the NT was written to Christians, Gentiles and Jews.
 
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Clare73

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The subject is the New Testament in which one finds words of comfort for all people.
Yes, the comfort is the good news (salvation in Jesus Christ) to the bad news (all men are condemned). Ro 5:18
 
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