Sola Fide

[Xeno.of.athens]

The Catholic Church teaches that faith in Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation, but it is not the only necessary element. The Catholic Church teaches that good works and sacraments, such as baptism and the Eucharist, are also necessary for salvation. This is in contrast to the doctrine of sola fide, or "faith alone," which teaches that faith is the only necessary element for salvation.

Scripture references that support the Catholic teaching on salvation include James 2:24, which states, "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." Additionally, Matthew 25:31-46, the parable of the sheep and the goats, teaches that salvation is based on the good works that a person has done.

In summary, Catholic Church teaches that faith, good works, and sacraments are all necessary for salvation, while sola fide only emphasizes the importance of faith alone.

 

[Jonaitis]

Sola fide teaches that justification before God is obtained in Christ by faith alone, and that as a result of God's free grace. Good works are the fruits and evidences of that saving faith. Our ability to do good works spring from, not in cooperation with, God's free grace through faith in Christ.

"For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law." (Romans 3:28).

"Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works." (James 2:18)

James above explains in context that faith without works is dead, which is another way of saying such a faith does not actually exist. The concept of sola fide does not teach a dead faith, for then it would be no faith at all, but rather it is an evangelical one that evidences itself in good works. You will know a man has faith if they are obedient (James 2:18), just as you would know a man has love if they are obedient (John 14:15). This does not imply that good works constitute the necessity of justification before God, but rather the vindication that one is already justified in Christ. Our good works cannot contribute to any part of salvation, they are merely the consequences of it.

 

[Clare73]

The Catholic Church teaches that faith in Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation, but it is not the only necessary element. The Catholic Church teaches that good works and sacraments, such as baptism and the Eucharist, are also necessary for salvation. This is in contrast to the doctrine of sola fide, or "faith alone," which teaches that faith is the only necessary element for salvation.

Authoritative NT apostolic teaching is that salvation itself (remission of sin and of God's penalty for sin; i.e., condemnation) is by faith, not by works (Eph 2:8-9).

Authoritative NT apostolic teaching is that the (imparted) righteousness of the Christian life is by works of obedience in the Holy Spirit, which lead to righteousness leading to holiness (Ro 6:16, Ro 6:19), for "Without holiness, no one will see the Lord." (Heb 12:14)

Scripture references that support the Catholic teaching on salvation include James 2:24, which states, "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." Additionally, Matthew 25:31-46, the parable of the sheep and the goats, teaches that salvation is based on the good works that a person has done.

In summary, Catholic Church teaches that faith, good works, and sacraments are all necessary for salvation, while sola fide only emphasizes the importance of faith alone.

False dichotomy. . .

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Sola fide teaches that justification before God is obtained in Christ by faith alone, and that as a result of God's free grace. Good works are the fruits and evidences of that saving faith. Our ability to do good works spring from, not in cooperation with, God's free grace through faith in Christ.

"For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law." (Romans 3:28).

"Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works." (James 2:18)

James above explains in context that faith without works is dead, which is another way of saying such a faith does not actually exist. The concept of sola fide does not teach a dead faith, for then it would be no faith at all, but rather it is an evangelical one that evidences itself in good works. You will know a man has faith if they are obedient (James 2:18), just as you would know a man has love if they are obedient (John 14:15). This does not imply that good works constitute the necessity of justification before God, but rather the vindication that one is already justified in Christ. Our good works cannot contribute to any part of salvation, they are merely the consequences of it.

Saint James asserts that the demons have faith without works and they tremble at the coming judgement.

 

[Jonaitis]

Saint James asserts that the demons have faith without works and they tremble at the coming judgement.

Demons have a mere intellectual assent, which James says is not saving faith (James 2:18).

 

[Lukaris]

I believe the faith alone statement is understandable in the aspect of us living it out with works worthy of repentance as St. Paul said in Acts 26:20. St. John the Baptist says this in Luke 3:1-8 & it is a consistent expression since Luke wrote both accounts. I believe what St. Paul says in Ephesians 2:8-10 expresses the same understanding. I also believe this matches what the Lord says in Luke 17:5-10 & note we are unworthy servants obviously not justified by works but called to do good works.

 

[Jonaitis]

I believe the faith alone statement is understandable in the aspect of us living it out with works worthy of repentance as St. Paul said in Acts 26:20. St. John the Baptist says this in Luke 3:1-8 & it is a consistent expression since Luke wrote both accounts. I believe what St. Paul says in Ephesians 2:8-10 expresses the same understanding. I also believe this matches what the Lord says in Luke 17:5-10 & note we are unworthy servants obviously not justified by works but called to do good works.

Yes, and if good works were necessary for justification, then this would be like saying a tree is made so because of its fruit, which we know is false, because it is the fruit that exhibits the nature of a tree. You will know a believer by his works.

 

[BobRyan]

The Catholic Church teaches that faith in Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation, but it is not the only necessary element. The Catholic Church teaches that good works and sacraments, such as baptism and the Eucharist

Please define valid effective Baptism in that context.
Please define Eucharist in the context that you just stated

, are also necessary for salvation. This is in contrast to the doctrine of sola fide, or "faith alone," which teaches that faith is the only necessary element for salvation.

If we define "Faith" as in the saving faith of James 2- then sola fide works just fine.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Yes, and if good works were necessary for justification, then this would be like saying a tree is made so because of its fruit, which we know is false, because it is the fruit that exhibits the nature of a tree. You will know a believer by his works.

Yet we say a tree is known by its fruit.
Works, faith, sacraments are all part of the one grace of salvation.

 

[BBAS 64]

Good Day,

So glad my error of being a participate in the Roman Catholic denomination has been corrected though the operation of the Holy Sprit and the means of the God Breathed out word.

IX. Whosoever shall say that the wicked is justified by faith alone, in such a sense that nothing else is required in the way of co-operation to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is in no respect necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will, let him be anathema.

That would be me..


Trent has erred.

Calvin corrected their errors:

Calvin - Acts of the Council of Trent with the Antidote

In Him,

Bill

 

[eleos1954]

The Catholic Church teaches that faith in Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation, but it is not the only necessary element. The Catholic Church teaches that good works and sacraments, such as baptism and the Eucharist, are also necessary for salvation. This is in contrast to the doctrine of sola fide, or "faith alone," which teaches that faith is the only necessary element for salvation.

Scripture references that support the Catholic teaching on salvation include James 2:24, which states, "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." Additionally, Matthew 25:31-46, the parable of the sheep and the goats, teaches that salvation is based on the good works that a person has done.

In summary, Catholic Church teaches that faith, good works, and sacraments are all necessary for salvation, while sola fide only emphasizes the importance of faith alone.

Many teachings and practices of the catholic church usurps (supplants) the divinity of christ.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Many teachings and practices

One ought to stick to the topic.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Please define valid effective Baptism in that context.

Why do you want me to define a word that is well known and understood?

According to Catholic Church teaching, baptism is the sacrament by which a person is initiated into the Christian faith. It involves the pouring of water on the head or immersing the person in water, while saying the words "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." This sacrament is seen as necessary for salvation, as it removes original sin and incorporates the person into the Church. It also marks the beginning of new life in Christ.

Scripture references for this belief include:

• John 3:5, where Jesus says to Nicodemus, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
• Titus 3:5, where Paul writes, "He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit."
• Mark 16:16, where Jesus says, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved, but he who does not believe will be condemned."
• Acts 2:38, where Peter says, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

If you want more definitions use a dictionary please.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Please define Eucharist in the context that you just stated

According to Catholic Church teaching, the Holy Eucharist, also known as the Lord's Supper or Communion, is the sacrament in which bread and wine are consecrated and consumed by the faithful, becoming the body and blood of Jesus Christ. It is considered to be the source and summit of Christian life and worship. Catholics believe that in the Eucharist, they are not only receiving bread and wine, but also the real presence of Jesus Christ.

Scripture references for this belief include:

• Matthew 26:26-28, where Jesus says, "Take, eat; this is my body...Drink of it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."
• John 6:53-56, where Jesus says, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
• 1 Corinthians 11:23-26, where Paul writes, "For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, 'This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.' In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.'"

 

[BobRyan]

The Catholic Church teaches that faith in Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation, but it is not the only necessary element. The Catholic Church teaches that good works and sacraments, such as baptism and the Eucharist

BobRyan said:
Please define Eucharist in the context that you just stated

According to Catholic Church teaching, the Holy Eucharist, also known as the Lord's Supper or Communion, is the sacrament in which bread and wine are consecrated and consumed by the faithful, becoming the body and blood of Jesus Christ. It is considered to be the source and summit of Christian life and worship. Catholics believe that in the Eucharist, they are not only receiving bread and wine, but also the real presence of Jesus Christ.

So since we see that in your definition above -- there is no Catholic priest in that description
- can we assume a pastor or elder in any denomination will suffice to fulfill that requirement in your view?

--Grape juice as the grape beverage is just fine?

- No one having the power to confect the body soul and divinity of Christ - is just fine?

etc

Given then that all that still meets your definition (as you seem to leave mentioning all of that out).
So then - are we still talking about the same thing?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

can we assume a pastor or elder in any denomination will suffice to fulfill that requirement in your view?

No one will stop you assuming things.

Apostolic succession refers to the belief that bishops in the Christian Church are the successors of the original apostles and have the authority to consecrate the Eucharist. This belief is based on scripture passages such as Matthew 16:19, where Jesus tells Peter, "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." This is interpreted as giving Peter and the apostles the authority to govern the Church. Another passage that is cited is 2 Timothy 2:2, where Paul writes, "What you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also." This is seen as a reference to the passing on of apostolic authority to future generations.

 

[Lukaris]

The Eucharist was established by the Lord per Matthew 26:26-28, Mark 14:22-24, Luke 22:17-20. St. Paul attests to it in 1 Corinthians 11:23-25. The Lord defines the Eucharist in John 6:47-58.

 

[BobRyan]

The Catholic Church teaches that faith in Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation, but it is not the only necessary element. The Catholic Church teaches that good works and sacraments, such as baptism and the Eucharist

Please define valid effective Baptism in that context.

Why do you want me to define a word that is well known and understood?

Because you are talking about "what is necessary for salvation" and you say that baptism is - so my question is "are we talking about the same thing"?

According to Catholic Church teaching, baptism is the sacrament by which a person is initiated into the Christian faith. It involves the pouring of water on the head or immersing the person in water, while saying the words "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." This sacrament is seen as necessary for salvation, as it removes original sin and incorporates the person into the Church. It also marks the beginning of new life in Christ.

And in your view it does not require a priest - such that anyone in any denomination (Pastors etc) would suffice to meet that "work" that is needed for salvation?

Do you believe that the person is not saved until the moment they are baptized - be it by a pastor or priest or whoever in any given denomination? Or are you just saying that people do get baptized at some point?

Scripture references for this belief include:

• John 3:5, where Jesus says to Nicodemus, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

Do you believe that the person is not born again until the Baptist, or Methodist pastor or Catholic priest baptizes them?.

 

[BobRyan]

No one will stop you assuming things.

Indeed a Hindu could assume that Vishnu is a better choice.. But that was not what I was getting at.

I am trying to get to some point where we are talking about the same thing when we say "yes those kinds of things are involved in salvation"

 

[BobRyan]

Apostolic succession refers to the belief that bishops in the Christian Church are the successors of the original apostles

Are you bringing that up because you meant to say
"Baptism and the Lord's Supper are necessary - and they must be performed by someone in apostolic succession to the first century Apostles" -- which implies that the person doing the baptizing is in fact claiming to be an Apostle in that case.

Another passage that is cited is 2 Timothy 2:2, where Paul writes, "What you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also." This is seen as a reference to the passing on of apostolic authority to future generations.

Ok so then "Apostolic succession" in that context means any Christian who heard the gospel and then passed it on to someone who will be able to teach and is a good Christian.