Sinning and faith

[DevotiontoBible]

I do NOT say that God wants men to sin to keep them humble. God wants us perfect as He is.

The problem is in us, that we never arrive to be perfect as He is.

And God uses everything, also our sins, to built something positive.
(Luke 20:17 .. 'The very stone which the builders rejected has become the head of the corner')

Are you saying you didn't say this in post #19?

Why God allow us to go on to sin? Simply to keep us humble. He dont mind if we sin..He forgive us..but He wants us humble in order to see Him.

Where does the Bible say that God uses our sins to teach us anything?

 

[If Not For Grace]

that we never arrive to be perfect as He is.

But in Matthew are we not instructed to be perfect and in I John are we not told to sin no more...that if we do we do not have eternal life in us....

I am not perfect, I do sin even in my heart when I know better. Last night my bunch was on the Love your enemies thing and I told them I could not yet love all my "family" much less my enemies, and no one suggests how you can overcome these things except to "Pray".. How does one soften one's heart and grow toward "perfection"?

 

[DevotiontoBible]

How does one soften one's heart and grow toward "perfection"?

Each time you obey the conviction of the Holy Spirit steering you away from evil you soften your heart and grow toward perfection. Disobedience hardens the heart and stops Christian maturity.

 

[If Not For Grace]

But I have these areas that I justify--"you just don't know how she treats me" or "I have forgiven her, I just don't go around her cast not your pearls bf swine" etc.

Then there's this husband who I really am glad is dead...

otherwise I'm doing better, see the cycle...I don't see any progress in these areas--am I doomed to hell, if I hold on to these grudges?

 

[OObi]

1 John 3:9 - "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God-1 John 5:1

Okay, if you believe that Jesus is the Christ, you are born of God. And if you are born of God, then you can't sin. That is what these two passages seem to say. What are your thoughts?

 

[DevotiontoBible]

But I have these areas that I justify--"...

otherwise I'm doing better,

It doesn't sound to me like you are justifying since you recognize they are bad behaviors. A person who justifies himself does not admit the wrong he does but vindicates it.

 

[If Not For Grace]

I John 3:10--Anyone who does no do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

3:15 Anyone who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.

So am I a murderer? I don't want to be, but If I say I love these people and have forgiven them I am only a liar.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Okay, if you believe that Jesus is the Christ, you are born of God. And if you are born of God, then you can't sin. That is what these two passages seem to say. What are your thoughts?

The context of 1 John does not say it is impossible for a Christian to sin. Instead, John says it is not expected for a Christian to sin, it is not normal, it is sub standard. John here is giving us the standard to measure what a Christian is suppossed to be like. Unfortunately, too many dumb down the standard to match their level of Christian incompetence.

 

[a_ntv]

Are you saying you didn't say this in post #19?

I said that God allows us to sin, not that God wants us to sin. God wants us 100% perfect, it is us that are not 100% perfect.

Im very pratical: I cannot say that I do not sin. Not murders or heavy sins, but anyway little acts or moments where Christ is not in the first place in my life.

I'll be sinless only when (hopefully) I am in front of Him (=after the first death). See Romans 6:7 For he who has died is freed from sin.

Before the deaths there are two natures in me:
- a holy and sinless nature, born with the baptism
- the old nature, the flesh, that try to survive in me

I have already quotes Roman 7:14 and 7:24.
Lissen now ad instance Ef 4:22-24: " Put off your old nature which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and put on the new nature, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness
He says "put off", not "you had already put off"

So, each time in the NT Paul write to us as 'sinless', he is referring to the our new nature, the one born in the baptism. We are part of the Body of Christ (Holy Church) only with the new nature in us. That is the reason why the Church is Holy: the burders of the Church are into us.

I personally think, starting from the actual life, that to state that all christians, even only christians really converted, are sinless (=having only the new nature, without the old nature) is false and proud.
1John 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

So am I a murderer? I don't want to be, but If I say I love these people and have forgiven them I am only a liar.

This sin is not done out of defiance but weakness by your comment "I dont want to be". There was no atonement for sins done out of defiance under the OT only for sins done in "ignorance (KJV)" or "unintentionally (NIV)". But a better translation is "weakness". So no , a Christian who sins because he is weak is not going to hell for sinning. Forgiveness is not natural, you need to seek the Kingdom of God and His righteousness first and then the power to forgive will be added to you.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

I said that God allows us to sin, not that God wants us to sin. God wants us 100% perfect, it is us that are not 100% perfect.

Im very pratical: I cannot say that I do not sin. Not murders or heavy sins, but anyway little acts or moments where Christ is not in the first place in my life.

I'll be sinless only when (hopefully) I am in front of Him (=after the first death). See Romans 6:7 For he who has died is freed from sin.

Before the deaths there are two natures in me:
- a holy and sinless nature, born with the baptism
- the old nature, the flesh, that try to survive in me

I have already quotes Roman 7:14 and 7:24.
Lissen now ad instance Ef 4:22-24: " Put off your old nature which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and put on the new nature, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness
He says "put off", not "you had already put off"

So, each time in the NT Paul write to us as 'sinless', he is referring to the our new nature, the one born in the baptism. We are part of the Body of Christ (Holy Church) only with the new nature in us. That is the reason why the Church is Holy: the burders of the Church are into us.

I personally think, starting from the actual life, that to state that all christians, even only christians really converted, are sinless (=having only the new nature, without the old nature) is false and proud.
1John 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The context of 1 John clearly say's we are not to sin, to live as pure as Christ...in this life.

 

[a_ntv]

The context of 1 John clearly say's we are not to sin, to live as pure as Christ...in this life.

this your stament is not clear (sorry, my English is quite poor)

- we should not sin, but live as pure as Christ: ok that is our goal
- we are without sin and living as pure as Christ: that is huge pride.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

this your stament is not clear (sorry, my English is quite poor)

- we should not sin, but live as pure as Christ: ok that is our goal
- we are without sin and living as pure as Christ: that is huge pride.

Show me where the Bible say's that if a Christian stops sinning and lives as pure as Christ it is any kind of pride.

 

[Teekz]

this your stament is not clear (sorry, my English is quite poor)

- we should not sin, but live as pure as Christ: ok that is our goal
- we are without sin and living as pure as Christ: that is huge pride.

I beleive that god wouldn't tell us to stop sinning if he didn't know we could do it, through out history he has given us so much, till today we have the ultimate gift, Jesus christ, salvation.. ppl say they can't stop sinning because they lack the will to try, their former body still figts against the new change.

I beleive that if one fully studys the bible, apply all it's teachings in our everyday life, then i think it's possible to achieve a sinless life, God said if you break one of his commandment you have broken all of them, so that means he expects us to keep ALL of them. make sure u recieve the fruit of the spirt in you, and put on Gods armor, i think these two things are important in our battle... we have three enemys our body, the world, and the enemy.... we are living in a war that has been going on for centuries.. for us to say we can't stop sinning is liek to tell god that he is wrong in what he comands

Ps. i'm not talking like i'm sinless my self, i'm longing for holiness, i'm longing for the day that i defeat my body, the world, and the enemy(satan)... right now i'm a new babe.. i want to be holy in his sight

 

[DevotiontoBible]

I beleive that god wouldn't tell us to stop sinning if he didn't know we could do it, through out history he has given us so much, till today we have the ultimate gift, Jesus christ, salvation.. ppl say they can't stop sinning because they lack the will to try, their former body still figts against the new change.

I beleive that if one fully studys the bible, apply all it's teachings in our everyday life, then i think it's possible to achieve a sinless life, God said if you break one of his commandment you have broken all of them, so that means he expects us to keep ALL of them. make sure u recieve the fruit of the spirt in you, and put on Gods armor, i think these two things are important in our battle... we have three enemys our body, the world, and the enemy.... we are living in a war that has been going on for centuries.. for us to say we can't stop sinning is liek to tell god that he is wrong in what he comands

Ps. i'm not talking like i'm sinless my self, i'm longing for holiness, i'm longing for the day that i defeat my body, the world, and the enemy(satan)... right now i'm a new babe.. i want to be holy in his sight

Your right. Even in the Old Testament people where able to keep Gods commandments, such as Luke 1:6 (NLT)
Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous in God's eyes, careful to obey all of the Lord's commandments and regulations.

It is not that hard to keep God's commandments 1 John 5:3 (NLT)
Loving God means keeping his commandments, and really, that isn't difficult.

 

[a_ntv]

Show me where the Bible say's that if a Christian stops sinning and lives as pure as Christ it is any kind of pride.

We have to stop sinning and live as pure as Christ.

The pride is to believe that we are sinless and as pure as Christ.

Luke 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank thee that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.
Luke 18:13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!'
Luke 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for every one who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."

But we have to understand about what is the sin: I'm not speaking of heavy sins, like murders, fornitcation, or abortion.
I'm speaking of light sins: the more you are deep in christian life, the more little sins you can keen eye: a bad word said to a collegue, five minutes of sloth in front of the TV, eating some unecessary cakes, a backbiting...

 

[If Not For Grace]

This sin is not done out of defiance

IT SEEMS SO TO ME--I absolutely do not want to forgive, even though I know I should. See I would rather God "let Me slide" with this one, because I feel justified in my feelings....

Forgiveness is not natural, you need to seek the Kingdom of God and His righteousness first and then the power to forgive will be added to you.

IF I seek 1st.. Why can I not have the power not to sin added to me..must forgiveness come 1st, is that part of the way to "perfection"?

 

[a_ntv]

It is not that hard to keep God's commandments 1 John 5:3 (NLT)
Loving God means keeping his commandments, and really, that isn't difficult.

It is not difficult?? you are joking. Perhaps it is not difficoul not to kill, not to steal, not to fornicate, but:

Matthew 19:16 And behold, one came up to him, saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?"
Matthew 19:17 And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."...
Matthew 19:20 The young man said to him, "All these I have observed; what do I still lack?"
Matthew 19:21 Jesus said to him, "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."
Matthew 19:22 When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions.

If we dont sell everything we own, it is because we are tight: that is a sin!!!

Ps. i'm not talking like i'm sinless my self, i'm longing for holiness, i'm longing for the day that i defeat my body, the world, and the enemy(satan)... right now i'm a new babe.. i want to be holy in his sight

I agree 100%

 

[DevotiontoBible]

We have to stop sinning and live as pure as Christ.

The pride is to believe that we are sinless and as pure as Christ.

Luke 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank thee that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.
Luke 18:13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!'
Luke 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for every one who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."

But we have to understand about what is the sin: I'm not speaking of heavy sins, like murders, fornitcation, or abortion.
I'm speaking of light sins: the more you are deep in christian life, the more little sins you can keen eye: a bad word said to a collegue, five minutes of sloth in front of the TV, eating some unecessary cakes, a backbiting...

None of these say it is pride to stop sinning and live as pure as Christ. You need to admit that you think God is a liar to tell us to do something [live as pure and holy as Christ in this life] that is an impossibility.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

--I absolutely do not want to forgive,

You told me earlier you want to forgive. Make up your mind.