Purgatory And Prayers For The Dead.

Xeno.of.athens

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The Catholic Church teaches that, besides a place of eternal torments for the wicked and of everlasting rest for the righteous, there exists in the next life a middle state of temporary punishment, allotted for those who have died in venial sin, or who have not satisfied the justice of God for sins already forgiven. She also teaches us that, although the souls consigned to this intermediate state, commonly called purgatory, cannot help themselves, they may be aided by the suffrages of the faithful on earth. The existence of purgatory naturally implies the correlative dogma—the utility of praying for the dead—for the souls consigned to this middle state have not reached the term of their journey. They are still exiles from heaven and fit subjects for Divine clemency.

The doctrine of an intermediate state is thus succinctly asserted by the Council of Trent: “There is a Purgatory, and souls there detained, are helped by the prayers of the faithful, and especially by the acceptable Sacrifice of the Altar.”

It is to be noted that the Council studiously abstains from specifying the nature of the expiating sufferings endured therein.

Is it not strange that this cherished doctrine should also be called in question by the levelling innovators of the sixteenth century, when we consider that it is clearly taught in the Old Testament; that it is, at least, insinuated in the New Testament; that it is unanimously proclaimed by the Fathers of the Church; that it is embodied in all the ancient liturgies of the Oriental and the Western church, and that it is a doctrine alike consonant with our reason and eminently consoling to the human heart?
 
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RileyG

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All of the Apostolic Churches (Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian Church of the East) pray for the dead. Even some Anglican, Lutherans, and Methodist offers prayers for the dead. Ancient Jews and Jews today have always prayed for the dead. Jesus never spoke against it.

Purgatory only makes sense. We are never perfect on earth, but must be perfect in heaven.

***It must be noted Purgatory is ONLY RC doctrine. No other Churches accept it.
 
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sandman

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The Catholic Church teaches that, besides a place of eternal torments for the wicked and of everlasting rest for the righteous, there exists in the next life a middle state of temporary punishment, allotted for those who have died in venial sin, or who have not satisfied the justice of God for sins already forgiven. She also teaches us that, although the souls consigned to this intermediate state, commonly called purgatory, cannot help themselves, they may be aided by the suffrages of the faithful on earth. The existence of purgatory naturally implies the correlative dogma—the utility of praying for the dead—for the souls consigned to this middle state have not reached the term of their journey. They are still exiles from heaven and fit subjects for Divine clemency.

The doctrine of an intermediate state is thus succinctly asserted by the Council of Trent: “There is a Purgatory, and souls there detained, are helped by the prayers of the faithful, and especially by the acceptable Sacrifice of the Altar.”

It is to be noted that the Council studiously abstains from specifying the nature of the expiating sufferings endured therein.

Is it not strange that this cherished doctrine should also be called in question by the levelling innovators of the sixteenth century, when we consider that it is clearly taught in the Old Testament; that it is, at least, insinuated in the New Testament; that it is unanimously proclaimed by the Fathers of the Church; that it is embodied in all the ancient liturgies of the Oriental and the Western church, and that it is a doctrine alike consonant with our reason and eminently consoling to the human heart?

You do realize that purgatory and its dogma implies that Jesus Christ was an incomplete savior, yet mans mediation can complete it.
 
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RileyG

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You do realize that purgatory and its dogma implies that Jesus Christ was an incomplete savior, yet mans mediation can complete it.
Not at all. That's not what the Church teaches.
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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Jesus never spoke against it.
Jesus never spoke against pedophilia either, that doesn't mean we should practice it.

It's too late to pray for the dead.
 
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RileyG

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Jesus never spoke against pedophilia either, that doesn't mean we should practice it.

It's too late to pray for the dead.
Not according to the earliest Christians or St. Paul (prayers for the dead)

God exists outside of time- he can use our prayers at any time and apply them to the dead.

see 2 Timothy 1:18
 
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RileyG

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Also 2 Maccabees 12:46 which is not in the Protestant Bibles, but is in Catholic and Orthodox Bibles since we accept the Septuagint which the early Christians would have used.

In the Roman Catacombs, the early Christians asked for prayers for the faithful departed.
 
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God does not need a purgatory, something like a purgatory is a man created idea. When a person believes in Jesus they immediately cross over from death to life.
Why did the early Christians pray for the dead then? Is everyone perfect at death? I know I won't be.
 
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sandman

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Again, this was never what the Church taught.

I spent the first 14 years of my life as a catholic, and I remember even as a young teen not being able to wrap my head around this …and several other things.

I had an uncle who was a priest... who also tried to explain this to me…

Like I said it may not be impressed upon today like it was then…The roots of this was a systematic money making deception that was imposed upon parishioners.
 
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HTacianas

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God does not need a purgatory, something like a purgatory is a man created idea. When a person believes in Jesus they immediately cross over from death to life.
Luk 12:47 “And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

Luk 12:48 “But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.

Where is all of this punishment -a little punishment for some, a lot for others- to take place?

1Co 3:13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.

What is this fire that will reveal all men's works? Where does it happen?
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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2 Timothy 1:18...also the sources from the ancient Christians.
2 Tim 1 18 does not speak about praying to the dead. What Paul says here is that God will reward him in the Day of the Lord.

Praying for the dead is not a biblical concept. Our prayers have no bearing on someone once he or she has died. The reality is that, at the point of death, one’s eternal destiny is confirmed. Either he is saved through faith in Christ and is in heaven where he is experiencing rest and joy in God’s presence, or he is in torment in hell. The story of the rich man and Lazarus the beggar provides us with a vivid illustration of this truth. Jesus plainly used this story to teach that after death the unrighteous are eternally separated from God, that they remember their rejection of the gospel, that they are in torment, and that their condition cannot be remedied (Luke 16:19-31).


I do not accept Sola Scriptura.
Why not? Only the Bible is the Word of God. Only the Bible is complete, authoritative, and true. “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16).
 
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HTacianas

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2 Tim 1 18 does not speak about praying to the dead. What Paul says here is that God will reward him in the Day of the Lord.

Praying for the dead is not a biblical concept. Our prayers have no bearing on someone once he or she has died. The reality is that, at the point of death, one’s eternal destiny is confirmed. Either he is saved through faith in Christ and is in heaven where he is experiencing rest and joy in God’s presence, or he is in torment in hell. The story of the rich man and Lazarus the beggar provides us with a vivid illustration of this truth. Jesus plainly used this story to teach that after death the unrighteous are eternally separated from God, that they remember their rejection of the gospel, that they are in torment, and that their condition cannot be remedied (Luke 16:19-31).



Why not? Only the Bible is the Word of God. Only the Bible is complete, authoritative, and true. “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16).

Prayers for the dead are entirely biblical. See II Maccabees 12:46. And 2 Timothy has nothing to do with sola scriptura. If it did the entire Church would have been following the idea from the beginning instead of doing what the bible actually says.
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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Maccabees are not in the Bible canon.

Only the Bible is the living Word of God, saying otherwise is a heresy.

Btw the Bible says that hell is eternal, and sinners will suffer eternally so it is absolutely pointless praying for the dead.
 
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HTacianas

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Maccabees are not in the Bible canon.

Only the Bible is the living Word of God, saying otherwise is a heresy.

Btw the Bible says that hell is eternal, and sinners will suffer eternally so it is absolutely pointless praying for the dead.

Maccabees is in the biblical canon. Always has been. Removing entire books from the bible though, that's heresy.
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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Maccabees is in the biblical canon. Always has been. Removing entire books from the bible though, that's heresy.
The Holy Spirit stopped speaking through the prophets after Malachi died. There was no prophet until John the Baptists.

The book of Macabees was never included in the Hebrew Bible or Tanakh and is not canonical in Judaism.

We will all have to give account to God for things we do and say. Good luck telling Him sola scriptura is not true.
 
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