Divine Healing

[RandyPNW]

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So much that Jesus promised his disciples had to do with a central assumption, that they were in the will of God and following God's word to their heart. Throughout the Law, there were curses for disobedience and blessings for obedience. Often, when God's People suffer various calamities, it is for their rebellion and sin, though certainly this is not always the case.

At times we suffer to be tested, eg Job 1. Sometimes we suffer to bear the suffering of others, eg Ezekiel 4.4. Sometimes we suffer to keep down our pride, eg Paul/2 Cor 12.7. Sometimes it is just because we bear the problems of the world in which we live, eg the tower of Siloam (Luke 13.4).

So when the disciples followed Jesus, they were encouraged to continue in faith while they were in the storm on the Sea of Galilee. They could be assured that they were not yet going to die. Paul expressed the same faith while he was shipwrecked that he would survive because it was promised him that he would carry his message to Rome.

And Jesus commissioned his 12 apostles to go out into Israel to work miracles, because he had sent them to bring spiritual restoration and thus healing to Israel when they repented. Later, miracles were done when the Gospel went out into the world, as well. But here the context changes to some degree. Israel had known God for centuries, but the pagan Gentiles were new to the word of God.

The Apostle John said that prayers and healings may not always take place if a sin needs to be punished with death. It may not mean someone is Lost, but it does mean that sometimes our ministry can be damaged irreparably. And even if we don't die, we may not be able to completely remove the punishment. We can discern these things if we are honest. see 1 John 5.14-16.

But grace is a big thing, OT and NT, and when we repent sincerely, if the sin is not too great, we can be healed, eg Miriam's leprosy. I've shortened this for you. I can detail more of this, if you wish?

Please note that the OT sacrifices for sin were aimed at "unintentional sins." Sins of rebellion required removal of the spirit of rebellion before atonement could be made.

But God's word grants restoration through repentance by supernatural means. That is guaranteed. How much gets restored in the here and now is up to God. At least that's how I interpret it. see Lev 4.2.

 

[hislegacy]

The Apostle John said that prayers and healings may not always take place if a sin needs to be punished with death

Where?

 

[RandyPNW]

Where?

1 John 5.16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

A lot of Christians, including myself, have read into this passage a warning that some people who are destined to die are sinners who are Lost. This isn't really saying that. It's saying that some prayers cannot expect to be answered because of the severity of God's judgment, not at all indicating whether someone is Saved or Lost.

In the case of King David's child by adultery, the child was determined by God to die, and David's prayer could not change that. After the child died, David accepted God's judgment, not at all determining that the child "went to Hell." He took responsibility, accepted his judgment, and had to go on embracing God's mercy and hope in Eternity for the child.

The passage indicates that God does make irreversible judgments that do not always involve Eternal Death. People die due to the severity of their rebellion, and not because they have eternally rejected the Lord. Many died in the wilderness when Israel escaped Egypt, and I doubt all of them were lost for Eternity.

Concerning the point reached where God will no longer withdraw His judgment we read this....

Jer 7.16 “So do not pray for this people nor offer any plea or petition for them; do not plead with me, for I will not listen to you.

Jeremiah says this after God has poured out words of warning and calls for repentance, only to have Israel ignore those words. And so, God runs out of patience, and determines that fake shows of repentance will no longer bring compassion from God--the judgments are now determined to come, and there will be no turning back. This is something that can no longer be prayed for!

29 “‘Cut off your hair and throw it away; take up a lament on the barren heights, for the Lord has rejected and abandoned this generation that is under his wrath.

 

[hislegacy]

1 John 5.16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

Read this in context and you will plainly see this is not addressing Divine Healing, but in fact speaking of the unpardonable sin. John is speaking of the second death - eternal separation from God.

 

[RandyPNW]

Read this in context and you will plainly see this is not addressing Divine Healing, but in fact speaking of the unpardonable sin. John is speaking of the second death - eternal separation from God.

Brother, I memorized the entire letter back in around 1972-3. Nowhere does it mention the "2nd Death." I never said it specifically addressed "healing"--I'm suggesting that the principle of praying for something that God is specifically opposed to is an exercise in vanity.

The only place where God said He would not respond is in a place where someone is belligerent and unrepentant, where he has crossed the line from "playing with sin" to absolute commitment to sin.

Here is what I'm suggesting. The passage, in context, is speaking about the kinds of things we can ask for in prayer--not just about sins that lead to death. John speaks of "not sinning" as characteristic of believers, not at all meaning Christians don't sin, but referring to a general commitment to living by the righteousness of Christ.

This also was how it was looked at under the Covenant of Law, that when people committed to that system of righteousness it was understood that they were imperfect but could have their sins mitigated by a general commitment to maintaining the high standards of the Law, despite smaller infractions that were inevitable.

John is suggesting the same thing about Christians, that in committing to Christ we "don't sin," not at all meaning we never sin again. Rather, we are covered for our inevitable infractions, but in general "do not sin" by choosing to follow Christ regularly and consistently.

In such a place, John is suggesting we get answers to prayers, just as under the Law the obedient were blessed. But it doesn't suggest that no sins take place, that no judgments take place, or that God cannot test or refine the Christian by negative experiences or by not answering all prayers.

Rather, he is just in general stating the principle that obedient Christians receive answers to prayers as those who warrant it under God's system of rewards. There are obviously times when we won't get answers to prayers. And John is just saying that when we're not obedient, and go past a certain boundary, we will not receive answers to prayer such as happen for obedient Christians.

God may get to the point where He consigns us to a set of judgments that will not be withdrawn until they are finished, much as a diseased person was sometimes not cleansed until the disease had finished working all the way through the body. The example of a person consigned to death is just one such example in the extreme.

Nowhere does this require that the person put to death was necessarily "Lost." David lost the baby born to Bathsheba, and the baby was not Lost, Obviously, it was David's sin, and he was not "Lost" either. Samson consented to his own death sentence when he performed his final act of strength and heroism. He accepted his fate and was not "Lost."

 

[hislegacy]

Brother, I memorized the entire letter back in around 1972-3. Nowhere does it mention the "2nd Death." I never said it specifically addressed "healing"--I'm suggesting that the principle of praying for something that God is specifically opposed to is an exercise in vanity.

The thread is titled Divine Healing

If your op is on a different subject, perhaps you should change the title.

 

[RandyPNW]

The thread is titled Divine Healing

If your op is on a different subject, perhaps you should change the title.

I didn't say my response ignored Divine Healing. I said that the particular comment I was making did not *directly* speak of Divine Healing. There are thousands of related subjects that have an impact on the subject of Divine Healing. If you want the words "Divine Healing" in every sentence, I think you're becoming embarrassingly strict!

Can't you understand the point? If in the matter of Sickness unto Death people cannot be healed, then this indirectly has to do with Divine Healing! Correcting the notion that this *only* has to do with the Lost is a related subject.

You are the one saying this is about Unpardonable Sin. But there is no mention of it at all. So are you going to keep posting in this thread?

If you care to say any more on this thread, and I welcome it, please answer this one question: Do you believe someone who is Saved for Eternity can be struck dead by God?

 

[hislegacy]

Can't you understand the point? If in the matter of Sickness unto Death people cannot be healed, then this indirectly has to do with Divine Healing! Correcting the notion that this *only* has to do with the Lost is a related subject.

The Scripture you referenced does not say "sickness unto death"

 

[RandyPNW]

The Scripture you referenced does not say "sickness unto death"

Yes, that was the name of a book by Soren Kierkegaard I read a long time ago. But it really refers to this:

John 11.4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

But Lazarus really did die--he just didn't die the "2nd death."

My point, however, is that John in 1 John 5 was not speaking of "sickness unto the 2nd death" but only to the death of someone the Lord consigns to death without a chance of recovery.

It has happened to people of God who are not Lost--they just lost their lives.

 

[hislegacy]

Yes, that was the name of a book by Soren Kierkegaard I read a long time ago. But it really refers to this:

I believe Soren was mistaken

There is zero record of a person coming to Jesus for healing and was told no, or wait, it was not Gods will.

Additionally, there no record of such in the New Testament anywhere.

If you would like to discuss the Doctrine of Divine Healing, I would be happy to accommodate.

 

[RandyPNW]

I believe Soren was mistaken

He wasn't really talking about our subject. I just latched onto the phrase in a reference to 1 John 5, where our subject really is. Kierkegaard's subject has to do with the despair of our natural life until it comes to grip with the true meaning of life, which is our alignment with God.

But our text has to do with a person judged by God and dying. That could be by sickness or by some other means. We are not to pray to have the judgment removed if God determined it to be "unto death." That is, we cannot remove the judgment--it is fixed in the determined will of God.

This could, as I've argued, apply to either believer or unbeliever. In fact, God devoted to destruction His own Son, Jesus. Nobody should've prayed to prevent that death.

But in our text we're talking about someone God has judged to be worthy of death, which I don't think has to require eternal judgment. God put Moses to death before he could enter the Promised Land simply because he "hit the rock." And so, Moses was judged "unto death." But I think you would agree that Moses was "Saved?"

King Hezekiah almost experienced a sickness unto death, but I don't believe God was judging him in this, and was persuaded to spare him. But in the Law, someone devoted to destruction due to gross sin was not to be rescued. And it may or may not involve someone who will be Lost for eternity.

 

[RandyPNW]

I believe Soren was mistaken

There is zero record of a person coming to Jesus for healing and was told no, or wait, it was not Gods will.

Additionally, there no record of such in the New Testament anywhere.

If you would like to discuss the Doctrine of Divine Healing, I would be happy to accommodate.

Well, my brother, please feel free. That's why we're here--to discuss the true meaning of Scriptures. Any position I hold to that can be shown to be unscriptural I will correct.

Does this sound as if Jesus healed them all?

Matt 13.15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.

Here, Jesus was telling parables and applying them to unbelieving Israel who he inferred would not be healed even though they may want to be healed.

You say that people who came to Jesus to be healed were healed. The implication here is that they actually did *come to Jesus* with the right motive, to respond to a word of God to their hearts. If so, then they will always be healed.

But this does not address those who did not come to Jesus to be healed who may very well have been those God left in their illness. Your assumption is that everybody who was sick came to Jesus to be healed. Obviously, that is not true. Only those led by God to come to Jesus were healed.

Jesus walked in the perfect will of God, and those who came to him came in the will of God. And it was a special time for Israel when Messiah came, when the nation was ripe for miracles. Jesus quoted Isaiah to say that it was his time to come and heal Israel after a long period of stagnation and sin. It was time for the nation to receive the signs of Messiah.

However, in Israel's past they never had so many healings, even though they had experienced national restoration. On rare occasion they had a Moses, or an Elijah, or an Elisha to show God's power to heal. But for most of the history, miracles of healing were relatively rare, it seems.

Israel ultimately reneged on their repentance with Messiah, and turned against him. And the nation collapsed in judgment in 70 AD.

Then the Kingdom passed on to other nations, who then had their own national histories to go through. And again, the miracles have not been very forthcoming--not even in times of national restoration.
But there certainly have been some revivals in history in which miracles have taken place. Again, this makes periods of miraculous healings relatively rare.

When Jesus came in a time of blessing and miracles, the message of repentance had already been taught, preparing for Jesus. And so, those who came to Jesus were prepared by God to obtain the sign of their personal restoration--a miracle.

On the other hand, many did not go to Jesus for healing in sincerity, even if they wanted healing. They said, "Physician heal yourself," meaning that they wanted healing but were critical that he showed discrimination.

Mark 6.4 Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town, among his relatives and in his own home.” 5 He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6 He was amazed at their lack of faith.

And when King Herod wanted Jesus to do miracles for him, Jesus did nothing. Herod was wanting to see miracles, but Jesus would not accommodate him...

Luke 23.8 When Herod saw Jesus, he was greatly pleased, because for a long time he had been wanting to see him. From what he had heard about him, he hoped to see him perform a sign of some sort.

Jesus also told the story of Elisha how he discriminated in doing miracles, choosing at one point to favor a Gentile woman over all of Israel.

Jesus did not do miracles for those with the wrong spirit. But this does not address the notion that miracles may be withheld for reasons other than having a bad spirit... One can read elsewhere in the NT Scriptures about the fact miracles are not a fait accompli.

Luke 4.18 “The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”
...
23 Jesus said to them, “Surely you will quote this proverb to me: ‘Physician, heal yourself!’ And you will tell me, ‘Do here in your hometown what we have heard that you did in Capernaum.’”
...24 “Truly I tell you,” he continued, “no prophet is accepted in his hometown. 25 I assure you that there were many widows in Israel in Elijah’s time, when the sky was shut for three and a half years and there was a severe famine throughout the land. 26 Yet Elijah was not sent to any of them, but to a widow in Zarephath in the region of Sidon. 27 And there were many in Israel with leprosy in the time of Elisha the prophet, yet not one of them was cleansed—only Naaman the Syrian.”

I will just add this. The Gospels were written for a special time in Israel's history, when Messiah would come in the hope to save the few who would be willing to repent. There was a clear display of his willingness to save and to restore, but much of it was for naught. Most in Israel would turn away from him.

We cannot assume that every righteous person in Israel came to Jesus for healing when they may have known that their illness was something God gave them to live with. Obviously, those drawn to Jesus for healing God had granted healing to.

This was not about whether God always heals or not--it is about an outreach to backsliders to hopefully restore them. There are plenty of references in the Bible to good people who did not always get healed or who had afflictions or disabilities that they had to live with, without impugning their character or faith.

To just center on Jesus in the Gospels and ignore the entire testimony of Scripture is an attempt to make Jesus into a magic formula for healing. We should look at the total testimony of Scripture. Then you will see that affliction is not always a sign of unbelief and sin.

What is of primary importance is our relationship with God and with His Word. What is He telling us, as individuals? This is what we will be judged by--not the judgment of judgmental people who think no Christian should suffer illness. We must never become "Job's friends!"

 

[AlightSeeker]

• Divine Healing?
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So much that Jesus promised his disciples had to do with a central assumption, that they were in the will of God and following God's word to their heart. Throughout the Law, there were curses for disobedience and blessings for obedience. Often, when God's People suffer various calamities, it is for their rebellion and sin, though certainly this is not always the case.

At times we suffer to be tested, eg Job 1. Sometimes we suffer to bear the suffering of others, eg Ezekiel 4.4. Sometimes we suffer to keep down our pride, eg Paul/2 Cor 12.7. Sometimes it is just because we bear the problems of the world in which we live, eg the tower of Siloam (Luke 13.4).

So when the disciples followed Jesus, they were encouraged to continue in faith while they were in the storm on the Sea of Galilee. They could be assured that they were not yet going to die. Paul expressed the same faith while he was shipwrecked that he would survive because it was promised him that he would carry his message to Rome.

And Jesus commissioned his 12 apostles to go out into Israel to work miracles, because he had sent them to bring spiritual restoration and thus healing to Israel when they repented. Later, miracles were done when the Gospel went out into the world, as well. But here the context changes to some degree. Israel had known God for centuries, but the pagan Gentiles were new to the word of God.

The Apostle John said that prayers and healings may not always take place if a sin needs to be punished with death. It may not mean someone is Lost, but it does mean that sometimes our ministry can be damaged irreparably. And even if we don't die, we may not be able to completely remove the punishment. We can discern these things if we are honest. see 1 John 5.14-16.

But grace is a big thing, OT and NT, and when we repent sincerely, if the sin is not too great, we can be healed, eg Miriam's leprosy. I've shortened this for you. I can detail more of this, if you wish?

Please note that the OT sacrifices for sin were aimed at "unintentional sins." Sins of rebellion required removal of the spirit of rebellion before atonement could be made.

But God's word grants restoration through repentance by supernatural means. That is guaranteed. How much gets restored in the here and now is up to God. At least that's how I interpret it. see Lev 4.2.

James says the prayers of the elders, the righteous, will save the sick. So where is your faith? Pray and they will be healed.

 

[AlightSeeker]

Physical illness isn't the wrath of God in my opinion. We know sinners , by the prayers of the righteous, can be healed and forgiven if they committed sin. "If" they committed sin means that they are not all necessarily sick because of God's wrath. We also know sinners dont all get sick. In my opinion God's wrath isn't seen in physical illness but spiritual illness. When we disobey him he afflicts us with things like spiritual blindness and deafness. Look at God's plagues in revelation. The sun and moon not giving light could refer to spiritual blindness. We drink Christ's blood which is God's spirit who shines light in us, in my opinion, but sinners drink blood that is darkness not light. It kills them because its poison. Christ's blood however gives life. I don't claim to understand all of God's symbolism, and maybe my interpretation isnt right, i don't know, but I do believe his wrath is found in spiritual sickness and death.

 

[Laodicean60]

I believe Soren was mistaken

There is zero record of a person coming to Jesus for healing and was told no, or wait, it was not Gods will.

Additionally, there no record of such in the New Testament anywhere.

If you would like to discuss the Doctrine of Divine Healing, I would be happy to accommodate.

I've found that there are people who just don't want to believe it because they haven't seen it. I used to be one. We read scripture through our own understanding which has a little unbelief. I remember 30 years ago reading Ephesians 1 with unbelief. 13 years ago a couple of miracles came into my life now I believe it with certainty. Peace

 

[RandyPNW]

James says the prayers of the elders, the righteous, will save the sick. So where is your faith? Pray and they will be healed.

I have a ton of faith. What I don't have is presumption. We must always pursue God's will just as Jesus said, "I only do what I see the Father doing."

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I have a ton of faith. What I don't have is presumption. We must always pursue God's will just as Jesus said, "I only do what I see the Father doing."

Ok, I see what you are asking.
Here is the will of God:
James 5:14-15 KJV
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

 

[RandyPNW]

Ok, I see what you are asking.
Here is the will of God:
James 5:14-15 KJV
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Yes, the prayer of *non-presumptuous faith* shall save the sick. That means faith in God's revealed word, and not faith in a presumed word.

That's the whole difference between Faith Doctrine and Faith Teaching. Faith Teaching teaches that God gives a word which when believed in can give results. On the other hand, if we believe in something we imagine God wants but doesn't really reveal, then what we have is presumption and not real faith. We won't get results.

Please notice the context of the passage. Immediately after speaking of healing faith James speaks of forgiven sin. Do you see the connection? A person sick *due to his sin* in being forgiven can have the punishment removed.

Most often, God gives the ability to heal and do miracles in His name to specific individuals and not to everybody in the Church. For this reason miracles and healings of this sort are rare, both in the Bible and in history. Jesus received special ability at a special time in Israel's history. And he gave special abilities to all of his disciples. Otherwise, healings are rare.

And if you'll notice, special times of miracles and healing took place at a time of great sin and of great need for and possibilities for repentance. This was the case in Israel when Jesus came, and it was also the case in the time of Elijah and Elisha, when God sought to curb the trend towards idol worship. It was a time of crossroads when repentance could bring miraculous healing, but when hardness of heart would ultimately rule in the majority.

But in the matter of forgiving sin, we can all forgive, and as such all elders can pray for the repentant, even though they do not all have special gifts, for the restoration of one who has repented. Healings can be forthcoming, even if there is no gift to do miracles or heal.

Do you remember the case of Miriam, when she rebelled against her younger brother's authority she got leprosy. And when Moses prayed for her in her repentance she was healed. Moses, however, had the ability to both forgive and heal. As such, he was a type of Christ.

But sickness is not always the result of sin. Consequently, not every prayer is going to be answered. Jesus said that in the towers of Siloam incident the towers fell and killed people not due to the gravity of their sin, but due to circumstance. Repentance did not get mentioned as a possible way of escape since sin had not caused the incident.

Luke 13.4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem?

Do you think that in all of Israel there were no sick people who were righteous who failed to come to Jesus for healing? It's quite likely that during his 3.5 year ministry there were a good number of righteous Jews who died for one reason or the other. Maybe old age? Maybe they were lame and couldn't go out to Jesus? Or maybe it just wasn't afforded opportunity by God's will?

Eccl 9.11 I have seen something else under the sun: The race is not to the swift or the battle to the strong, nor does food come to the wise or wealth to the brilliant or favor to the learned; but time and chance happen to them all.

Do you think that during Elijah's time, when he was sent to help the woman in Syria that nobody in Israel was righteous and sick? There probably were, since we are told there were at least 6000 righteous people there. Surely some were sick? And yet Elijah was said to have been sent only to this Gentile woman at this time to heal her daughter.

Luke 4.26 Yet Elijah was not sent to any of them, but to a widow in Zarephath in the region of Sidon.

No, forgiveness is easily granted by God, along with the removal of some negative consequences associated with living a life of sin. But prayer for the sick requires a "prayer of faith," which by definition requires faith in something. And that something is God's revealed word. We may pray but we must always be cognizant of God's will, or there will be no effect to our prayer.

The Apostle John also believed in the prayer of faith. But it came with a caveat--we should not pray for something or someone devoted to destruction.

1 John 5.16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.

Think of King Saul's sparing of King Agag.

1 Sam 15.9 But Saul and the army spared Agag and the best of the sheep and cattle, the fat calves and lambs—everything that was good. These they were unwilling to destroy completely, but everything that was despised and weak they totally destroyed.

What this means is that at times God has determined that a judgment must fall and He cannot be assuaged of that judgment. In the same way, there are some things God has determined in our lives, including illnesses and accidents. God cannot be persuaded to divert them when He has determined that they must happen.

 

[AlightSeeker]

Yes, the prayer of *non-presumptuous faith* shall save the sick. That means faith in God's revealed word, and not faith in a presumed word.

That's the whole difference between Faith Doctrine and Faith Teaching. Faith Teaching teaches that God gives a word which when believed in can give results. On the other hand, if we believe in something we imagine God wants but doesn't really reveal, then what we have is presumption and not real faith. We won't get results.

Please notice the context of the passage. Immediately after speaking of healing faith James speaks of forgiven sin. Do you see the connection? A person sick *due to his sin* in being forgiven can have the punishment

Most often, God gives the ability to heal and do miracles in His name to specific individuals and not to everybody in the Church. For this reason miracles and healings of this sort are rare, both in the Bible and in history. Jesus received special ability at a special time in Israel's history. And he gave special abilities to all of his disciples. Otherwise, healings are rare.

And if you'll notice, special times of miracles and healing took place at a time of great sin and of great need for and possibilities for repentance. This was the case in Israel when Jesus came, and it was also the case in the time of Elijah and Elisha, when God sought to curb the trend towards idol worship. It was a time of crossroads when repentance could bring miraculous healing, but when hardness of heart would ultimately rule in the majority.

But in the matter of forgiving sin, we can all forgive, and as such all elders can pray for the repentant, even though they do have special gifts, for the restoration of one who has repented. Healings can be forthcoming, even if there is no gift to do miracles or heal.

Do you remember the case of Miriam, when she rebelled against her younger brother's authority she got leprosy. And when Moses prayed for her in her repentance she was healed. Moses, however, had the ability to both forgive and heal. As such, he was a type of Christ.

But sickness is not always the result of sin. Consequently, not every prayer is going to be answered. Jesus said that in the towers of Siloam incident the towers fell and killed people not due to the gravity of their sin, but due to circumstance. Repentance did not get mentioned as a possible way of escape since sin had not caused the incident.

Luke 13.4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem?

Do you think that in all of Israel there were no sick people who were righteous who failed to come to Jesus for healing? It's quite likely that during his 3.5 year ministry there were a good number of righteous Jews who died for one reason or the other. Maybe old age? Maybe they were lame and couldn't go out to Jesus? Or maybe it just wasn't afforded opportunity by God's will?

Eccl 9.11 I have seen something else under the sun: The race is not to the swift or the battle to the strong, nor does food come to the wise or wealth to the brilliant or favor to the learned; but time and chance happen to them all.

Do you think that during Elijah's time, when he was sent to help the woman in Syria that nobody in Israel was righteous and sick? There probably were, since we are told there were at least 6000 righteous people there. Surely some were sick? And yet Elijah was said to have been sent only to this Gentile woman at this time to heal her daughter.

Luke 4.26 Yet Elijah was not sent to any of them, but to a widow in Zarephath in the region of Sidon.

No, forgiveness is easily granted by God, along with the removal of some negative consequences associated with living a life of sin. But prayer for the sick requires a "prayer of faith," which by definition requires faith in something. And that something is God's revealed word. We may pray but we must always be cognizant of God's will, or there will be no effect to our prayer.

The Apostle John also believed in the prayer of faith. But it came with a caveat--we should not pray for something or someone devoted to destruction.

1 John 5.16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.

Think of King Saul's sparing of King Agag.

1 Sam 15.9 But Saul and the army spared Agag and the best of the sheep and cattle, the fat calves[b] and lambs—everything that was good. These they were unwilling to destroy completely, but everything that was despised and weak they totally destroyed.

What this means is that at times God has determined that a judgment must fall and He cannot be assuaged of that judgment. In the same way, there are some things God has determined in our lives, including illnesses and accidents. God cannot be persuaded to divert them when He has determined that they must happen.

The James scripture proves that illness is not the result of sin. He says if the sick person has sinned it will be forgiven. This means he didn't sin necessarily.

Also I have my doubts whether people understand John's words properly. He said we shouldn't pray for a person who committed a sin unto death. All sin leads to death so how can this refer to a specific sin? Some think it's suicide but I doubt that too. But i don't know what it means either. Maybe it means after we die its too late to pray.

 

[RandyPNW]

The James scripture proves that illness is not the result of sin. He says if the sick person has sinned it will be forgiven. This means he didn't sin necessarily.

You're missing the point. The healing follows the repentance, and is a display of God's forgiveness. This is everywhere in the OT Prophets, who promised restoration and healing for Israel if they would repent.

Also I have my doubts whether people understand John's words properly. He said we shouldn't pray for a person who committed a sin unto death. All sin leads to death so how can this refer to a specific sin? Some think it's suicide but I doubt that too. But i don't know what it means either. Maybe it means after we die its too late to pray.

I think this is one of the most misunderstood passages in the Bible. Those with knowledge of the OT Scriptures understand that God "devoted some people to destruction," because God passed irrevocable judgment at times. At other times God was willing to "repent" of His judgments. Only discernment by the Spirit knows the difference.