Sinning and faith

[OObi]

I've been asking myself a question for a long time.

No one is perfect, and we all sin. God tells us not to sin, and to follow Him in faith. You'd think that if we really did have faith in Him, we'd be able to lead a sinless life, without a second thought. However, we still sin? Does that show how we don't have faith in Him, or is there something I'm not getting? Please help.

OObi

 

[strayed]

i hear ya, oobi. ive been struggling with this one for some time now. faith can be tricky if you try to rationalize it. i believe that God is teaching those that wonder/worry about this question a lesson. so far, what ive gotten from this lesson is that we have no resources of our own. we have to have faith and trust in Him completely. we have to accept the truth that we are going to fail time and time again. i believe we can have faith and still fail. to date, the only person i know of that has ever not failed is our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. this is why He is so important to our salvation. He accomplished what we havent; what we cant. we can and i think should strive to be like Jesus, but because we are cursed with original sin, failure is still gonna happen. this is where faith steps in. we have faith that Jesus Christ accomplished the works for our salvation for us. (thank you, LORD!) just do the best you can, and talk to our heavenly Father when you fail. have faith, and trust in Christ's works and sacrifice to be sufficient for your salvation. i dunno if it will help, but in regards to this problem, ive found alot of solace and inspiration in Psalms 25. take care, and may God bless you!

 

[a_ntv]

I've been asking myself a question for a long time.

No one is perfect, and we all sin. God tells us not to sin, and to follow Him in faith. You'd think that if we really did have faith in Him, we'd be able to lead a sinless life, without a second thought. However, we still sin? Does that show how we don't have faith in Him, or is there something I'm not getting? Please help.

OObi

You start from a very protestant (and IMO wrong) idea of Sola Fide (only faith)

Lissen to Paul: Rom 7:14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? (*)

Paul himself went on sinning. And we cannot say that he had a poor faith...

But the faith is not enough. You cant have salvetionin your pocket. You are not made only of spirit.

Lissen again to Paul: Rom 7:25 So then, I of myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
Or to Jesus Matt 26:41 Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak."

After baptism it is like that a new creature is born. Some people misuderstand that thinking that he completely change. That is not. It is like that there are two creature in us: the old man, under the law of the flash, and the new born baby, under the law of the spirit.

We shall act in two ways:
- deny the old man (Jesus said: deny yourself, take your cross): here the necessity ad instance of fasting and deeds
- grow up the new born baby: 1 Peter 2:2 Like newborn babes, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up to salvation (see the refence to the Eucarist): here the necessity ad instance of praying and sacraments



Note: (*) it is a rethoric question, the answer is Christ, but not now, but after our death when, hopefully, we'll be saved forever.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

I've been asking myself a question for a long time.

No one is perfect, and we all sin. God tells us not to sin, and to follow Him in faith. You'd think that if we really did have faith in Him, we'd be able to lead a sinless life, without a second thought. However, we still sin? Does that show how we don't have faith in Him, or is there something I'm not getting? Please help.

OObi

Do you and A_ntv think that God is playing a joke on us by telling us not to sin while knowing people can't stop sinning? Is God mocking mankind? or is it more on the line that people don't believe they can stop sinning through Christ? Therefore, is this problem with God or men? You say the problem is with God if you cannot stop yourself from sinning by thinking that such verses as Rom 7 is Paul speaking about himself as an Apostle who couldn't stop himself from sinning until after he died.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Paul himself went on sinning. And we cannot say that he had a poor faith...

Paul did not go on sinning, you are misinterpreting the literary style of personating that Paul is using just as in Rom 3:7. He is not speaking of himself because he would contradict himself in Ch 6 that a Christian is not a slave to sin. You also make him contradict such statements as:

1 Cor. 9:27 (NLT)
I discipline my body like an athlete, training it to do what it should. Otherwise, I fear that after preaching to others I myself might be disqualified.

The reason Christians don't stop sinning is because they are too lazy. Paul says 1 Cor. 9:25 (NLT)
All athletes practice strict self-control. ...

 

[PETE_]

Paul did not go on sinning, you are misinterpreting the literary style of personating that Paul is using just as in Rom 3:7. He is not speaking of himself because he would contradict himself in Ch 6 that a Christian is not a slave to sin. You also make him contradict such statements as:

1 Cor. 9:27 (NLT)
I discipline my body like an athlete, training it to do what it should. Otherwise, I fear that after preaching to others I myself might be disqualified.

The reason Christians don't stop sinning is because they are too lazy. Paul says 1 Cor. 9:25 (NLT)
All athletes practice strict self-control. ...

Many use the excuse that we cannot be sinless as a reason not to try. We cannot be sinless but we can stop sinning. Here is a little exercise I was taught by a pastor years ago that helps us with mental discipline.


Start with small goals and build up.
Can you not sin for 1 hour.
Set that as a goal, do it, thank God for the victory, and start again.

then go for 2 hours, then three, and even a whole day. Having these goals keeps it on your mind. It is much easier to stay with Him as we discipline our minds to do so.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Many use the excuse that we cannot be sinless as a reason not to try. We cannot be sinless but we can stop sinning. Here is a little exercise I was taught by a pastor years ago that helps us with mental discipline.


Start with small goals and build up.
Can you not sin for 1 hour.
Set that as a goal, do it, thank God for the victory, and start again.

then go for 2 hours, then three, and even a whole day. Having these goals keeps it on your mind. It is much easier to stay with Him as we discipline our minds to do so.

That is good. But Acts 15 tells us, by the Holy Spirit v28, that new Christians should abstain from sexual immorality and cruelty to others right from the start of thier Christian walk. In other words...no progressive sanctification in these areas.

 

[PETE_]

That is good. But Acts 15 tells us, by the Holy Spirit v28, that new Christians should abstain from sexual immorality and cruelty to others right from the start of thier Christian walk. In other words...no progressive sanctification in these areas.

Even those are less difficult to tackle if you take small blocks of time as a goal. With the aid of the Spirit you can have victory, but we must discipline ourselves to allow Him to constantly lead us.

 

[OObi]

My question isn't can we stop sinning. It is why are we still sinning?

Here, let me put it like this.

1. Do you have faith in God?

2. If yes, then God commands that you not sin.


If you continue sinning you are either defying God, or are you just weak in your faith? Do you not have faith at all in Him? Did you just use Him as a crutch to give yourself purpose in life?

 

[PETE_]

My question isn't can we stop sinning. It is why are we still sinning?

Here, let me put it like this.

1. Do you have faith in God?

2. If yes, then God commands that you not sin.


If you continue sinning you are either defying God, or are you just weak in your faith?

And He will discipline His children. It is also clear that our faith grows as we mature.
Rom 14:1-3
14:1 Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2 One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.
(from New International Version)

Do you not have faith at all in Him? Did you just use Him as a crutch to give yourself purpose in life?

These last two seem a bit accusitory and condesending. With Christ as our model, we all fall severely short.

 

[strayed]

My question isn't can we stop sinning. It is why are we still sinning?

Here, let me put it like this.

1. Do you have faith in God?

2. If yes, then God commands that you not sin.


If you continue sinning you are either defying God, or are you just weak in your faith? Do you not have faith at all in Him? Did you just use Him as a crutch to give yourself purpose in life?

by all means; this is what plagues me. as time has gone on, ive noticed that im being convicted by His Holy Spirit on a much more drastic level than when i first turned to Christ's ways. i find myself praying to the LORD, while thinking about sinning, and the cycle begins. all my little thoughts that ive used in the past to justify and rationalize my actions have been leveled by the truth of God. i pray to not be ashamed, because i know im going to sin. i know that the flesh strives against the spirit and vise versa; i find myself attempting to use grace as an excuse to sin, and wind up balking because i love my Lord too much. i believe He raises the bar as you begin to digest and accept His truth. while i still consider myself to be on a remedial level spiritually, i can state without a doubt that God has upped the ante regarding my conscience and knowledge of His truth. through His grace, im not allowed to bs my way through my sins like i used to. this knowledge has absolutely no effect on my faith. im well aware that im not following His path as He wants me to. i do, however, have faith that He knows my heart, and that i want nothing more than to follow His will; even though i know that im going to fight Him along the way. this, i believe, is faith.

 

[OObi]

I don't think you get it still...

Why are we sinning?

What is making us sin? Sure, we have a carnal mind, but wouldn't the faith that we are supposed to have overcome that? If we truely and seriously believed in God, then we do we allow ourselves to defy Him?

I don't get it? I would do anything for God, I believe in Him and have my faith in Him. But why do I still sin? Am I just faking this, or what...

 

[strayed]

I don't think you get it still...

Why are we sinning?

What is making us sin? Sure, we have a carnal mind,

my belief is that you've already answered your question.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

My question isn't can we stop sinning. It is why are we still sinning?

I already answered from the Bible that laziness is the reason.

 

[OObi]

my belief is that you've already answered your question.

...oh

by all means; this is what plagues me. as time has gone on, ive noticed that im being convicted by His Holy Spirit on a much more drastic level than when i first turned to Christ's ways. i find myself praying to the LORD, while thinking about sinning, and the cycle begins. all my little thoughts that ive used in the past to justify and rationalize my actions have been leveled by the truth of God. i pray to not be ashamed, because i know im going to sin. i know that the flesh strives against the spirit and vise versa; i find myself attempting to use grace as an excuse to sin, and wind up balking because i love my Lord too much. i believe He raises the bar as you begin to digest and accept His truth. while i still consider myself to be on a remedial level spiritually, i can state without a doubt that God has upped the ante regarding my conscience and knowledge of His truth. through His grace, im not allowed to bs my way through my sins like i used to. this knowledge has absolutely no effect on my faith. im well aware that im not following His path as He wants me to. i do, however, have faith that He knows my heart, and that i want nothing more than to follow His will; even though i know that im going to fight Him along the way. this, i believe, is faith.

Thanks guys for all your answers, I feel this will help.

Shalom, OObi

 

[DevotiontoBible]

But why do I still sin? Am I just faking this, or what...

What is the matter don't you like my answer? you are lazy!. In addition to the first Scripture I gave here is
Hebrews 5:14 (NLT)
Solid food is for those who are mature, who have trained themselves to recognize the difference between right and wrong and then do what is right.
Trained is the Greek word gumnazo and it is where the english for gymnasium comes from. You keep sinning because you won't apply yourself to not sinning. Here is another Hebrews 12:4 (NLT)
After all, you have not yet given your lives in your struggle against sin.

Until you lose a drop of blood fighting when the temptation comes to sin, stop crying like a baby about how hard it is to stop sinning.

 

[rstrats]

1 John 3:9 - "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

 

[OObi]

1 John 3:9 - "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

But we haven't been born of God... only Yeshua has been born of God. Right?

 

[a_ntv]

We shall be Christ-like !!

Everything that is not Christ-like is a sin!!

I'm not speaking of heavy sins, like murders, fornitcation, or abortion.

I'm speaking of light sins: the more you are involved in a christian life, the more you can recognize little sins: a bad word said to a collegue, five minutes of sloth in front of the TV, eating some unecessary cakes, a backbiting...

These are all sins...Christ had not made them!!
The more you love Christ, the more little are the sins that you keen eye.

Why God allow us to go on to sin? Simply to keep us humble. He dont mind if we sin..He forgive us..but He wants us humble in order to see Him.

The worse attitide is to consider us sinless. The evil is to say "I'm sinless". That is pride. We should be sinless, but we are not.

To say that we are sinless is like to say that salvation is a right for us!! It is not!! It is a gift !! There is a huge difference between a right and a gift !!!

But we haven't been born of God... only Yeshua has been born of God. Right?

You are right indeed. We are foster sons

 

[OObi]

You are right indeed. We are foster sons

So, even if we are Christians, and we sin, it doesn't mean we don't have faith. We just have a natural tendency to sin, a carnal mind, and as we mature in our faith, the once what was not so important stuff becomes bigger to us?