Simple Question, or maybe not

[Stormahead]

How does a Christian tell the difference between a Government Ordained by God and a Gang of robbers & extortionists?

By size? By the quality of their propaganda on CNN?

 

[Garyzenuf]

How does a Christian tell the difference between a Government Ordained by God and a Gang of robbers & extortionists?

By size? By the quality of their propaganda on CNN?

There is no difference, seeing all govts. (I thought) are put in place by His will.

*

 

[b&wpac4]

How does a Christian tell the difference between a Government Ordained by God and a Gang of robbers & extortionists?

By size? By the quality of their propaganda on CNN?

Since you are addressing only Christians, do you feel this would be better suited in one of the Christian-only areas of the forum?

 

[The Nihilist]

That's hardly an "or" question. When Paul wrote that all authority comes from god, and so should be obeyed (or something to that effect), the western world was more or less under the rule of the Roman Empire. I don't know how much of a history person you are, but the Romans were almost entirely a gang of robbers and extortionists.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

How does a Christian tell the difference between a Government Ordained by God and a Gang of robbers & extortionists?

There's no difference in the secular world. God has "ordained" many vicious rulers over His own people. Look at what we are having to endure today 6 -19-09?

By size? By the quality of their propaganda on CNN?

Why not just come right at and say The Obama Administration?

Your last sentence just about shouted out the words.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

That's hardly an "or" question. When Paul wrote that all authority comes from god, and so should be obeyed (or something to that effect), the western world was more or less under the rule of the Roman Empire. I don't know how much of a history person you are, but the Romans were almost entirely a gang of robbers and extortionists.

But the persecutions waged on the Christians by the Romans were few and far between. And Christians today slaughtered en masses or seperately shot or killed for their witness of Christ, are martyred by religionists and totalitarian communist regimes.

I know that the Lord blesses (has blessed) and keeps them ever close to his heart.

But for the most part, a lascivious licentious gang of hedonists ruling secular society, is good for The Church. Obama for example, is forcing even fringe Christians and those interested in Christ, to look at the Gospel and NT writings in earnest once again. And those making up the working Church are more solid than ever.

 

[sandwiches]

But the persecutions waged on the Christians by the Romans were few and far between. And Christians today slaughtered en masses or seperately shot or killed for their witness of Christ, are martyred by religionists and totalitarian communist regimes.

I know that the Lord blesses (has blessed) and keeps them ever close to his heart.

But for the most part, a lascivious licentious gang of hedonists is good for The Church. Obama for example, is forcing even fringe Christians and those interested in Christ, to look at the Gospel and NT writings in earnest once again. And those making up the working Church are more solid than ever.

Let's not forget the Catholics and Protestants killing each other in Ireland! Peace-loving people indeed!

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Let's not forget the Catholics and Protestants killing each other in Ireland! Peace-loving people indeed!

How many?

Now lets zoom over to China and see what that atheist regime is doing?

Oh wait we can't. There is no way to get atheist regimes to show what they are doing.

No, wait, I guess some gets out:

<H3 class=entry-header>Christian Persecution in China...the cause and the effect.

This entry was written in response to the Research Blogging Assignment for Stanford's Fall 2008 Cultural Interfaces class. For more about this assignment, click here. You can leave a comment on this post by clicking on the "comment" link below.

Perhaps one of the most well-kept secrets from the mainstream western world is the daily, yes DAILY, plight of Christians in China. Since Mao Zedong instituted the People's Republic of China in 1948, the nation has adhered to an atheistic religious policy. As a result, those who profess any type of faith, Christian or not, have been subject to harsh treatment and heinous torture. Such an aggressive response is taken by the government because they view any form of faith as a threat, possibly galvanizing individuals under a creed different from the one promoted by the government.

http://www.stanford.edu/group/ccr/blog/2008/10/christians_
are_suffering_in_ch.html

</H3>

 

[sandwiches]

How many?

Now lets zoom over to China and see what that atheist regime is doing?

Oh wait we can't. There is no way to get atheist regimes to show what they are doing.

No, wait, I guess some gets out:

Oh I get your point and you're right. So, what you're saying is that governments and people will use any tool including religion or lack thereof to commit heinous acts and exact obedience from their constituents. I agree with you and trying to call out one side as though a particular event represents the views and actions of the entire group is reprehensible. Good point, Polycarp.

So, now we'll both stop doing that, right? Good sport.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Oh I get your point and you're right. So, what you're saying is that governments and people will use any tool including religion or lack thereof to commit heinous acts and exact obedience from their constituents. I agree with you and trying to call out one side as though a particular event represents the views and actions of the entire group is reprehensible. Good point, Polycarp.

So, now we'll both stop doing that, right? Good sport.

First, answer how many people were killed or imprisoned lately, as in today 6.19.09, in the Catholic versus Protestant wars in Ireland?

And then we'll see what's up in China's atheist government dealings with the population there today.

Be a sport huh?

 

[b&wpac4]

First, answer how many people were killed or imprisoned lately, as in today 6.19.09, in the Catholic versus Protestant wars in Ireland?

And then we'll see what's up in China's atheist government dealings with the population there today.

Be a sport huh?

It took Christians a while to get into the spirit of not forcing conversions or threatening to throw whole communities from their countries. Maybe we just need to give atheists about the same amount of time to adjust. 1500 years or so good for you? I feel that's more than generous.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

It took Christians a while to get into the spirit of not forcing conversions or threatening to throw whole communities from their countries.

Euroepan Christians. You left off European. You can take the barbarian out of a barbarian religion but you can't take the barbarian out of wanting to conquer other peoples. Obviously. Then again, how many pagan religious practices are actually IN European Christianity?

Maybe we just need to give atheists about the same amount of time to adjust.

Atheists already adjusted and then some.

Lenin, Stalin and Mao have killed more peope in just decades, in just months even, then all of the centuries Europeans have had Christianity as a popular religion in their wide lands.

1500 years or so good for you? I feel that's more than generous.

Considering what atheists did in such an incredibly short time, I think logic would dictate that we hope they never get another chance to dominate others the way they did in just a few short years.

Now, there have been many, many, many peoples of conquest and it stands to reason, since atheists would have no need of monuments or lasting veneration of a deity of said conquests to be remembered by. That being but nothing, how do we deny that atheism has not driven "live for the day" conquerors to conquer whole civilizations? It's not like an atheist horde is going to leave any religious artifacts or reports existing. And archaeologists have found civilizations burned and buried under the civilization built on them.

Great conversation BW.

 

[b&wpac4]

Then again, how many pagan religious practices are actually IN European Christianity?

I do indeed and it amuses me greatly.

 

[b&wpac4]

oh, wasn't a question to me. Yeah, there are a lot of leftovers. It's kind of weird.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

I do indeed and it amuses me greatly.

Just the opposite to me. But what do you expect would be the case from so many pagan lands?

I mean if the Israelites fell into paganism so easily time and time and time agan, you gotta figure the pagans are gunna have an even tougher time of it.

 

[Supernaut]

I mean if the Israelites fell into paganism so easily time and time and time agan, you gotta figure the pagans are gunna have an even tougher time of it.

At least it's a shorter fall....lol. Maybe there won't be any getting back up.

 

[Veyrlian]

But the persecutions waged on the Christians by the Romans were few and far between. And Christians today slaughtered en masses or seperately shot or killed for their witness of Christ, are martyred by religionists and totalitarian communist regimes.

I know that the Lord blesses (has blessed) and keeps them ever close to his heart.

But for the most part, a lascivious licentious gang of hedonists ruling secular society, is good for The Church. Obama for example, is forcing even fringe Christians and those interested in Christ, to look at the Gospel and NT writings in earnest once again. And those making up the working Church are more solid than ever.

How many?

Now lets zoom over to China and see what that atheist regime is doing?

Oh wait we can't. There is no way to get atheist regimes to show what they are doing.

No, wait, I guess some gets out:


</H3>

First, answer how many people were killed or imprisoned lately, as in today 6.19.09, in the Catholic versus Protestant wars in Ireland?

And then we'll see what's up in China's atheist government dealings with the population there today.

Be a sport huh?

The link doesn't work, and since it was in "a blog for students and teachers participating in the Cross-Cultural Rhetoric project", a quick search found me this from 2004, this from 2008 and took a look at the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_China#Communist_rulewikipedia articles here and here.

There seems to be a lot of Christians in China who are suffering from religious persecution in form of state-regulated churches and because proselytizing is forbidden. The non-state regulated church ministers face expulsion or imprisonment, possibly torture in prison. According to wiki: "Several thousand Christians were known to have been imprisoned between 1983-1993http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_China#cite_note-autogenerated3-29". Of course, if people are tortured there is a chance of death, as any american should know, but what I was looking for was where they are slaughtered in masses today. Apparently not in China, so perhaps you were thinking of another country? Or perhaps you could provide working links.

 

[Stormahead]

That's hardly an "or" question. When Paul wrote that all authority comes from god, and so should be obeyed (or something to that effect), the western world was more or less under the rule of the Roman Empire. I don't know how much of a history person you are, but the Romans were almost entirely a gang of robbers and extortionists.

Rome was though brutal pretty enlightened for its day. Had Israel for example been an independent State , they would have exterminated Christianity at its birth. Rome prevented that. The Pax and Roman roads were instrumential in the spread of the Church.

 

[Stormahead]

Soooo folks how do you tell the difference between a thief with a gun whom you have every right if not obligation to resist and a Tax Collector for the State who is collecting the tariff to perserve civilisation?

 

[Athene]

Soooo folks how do you tell the difference between a thief with a gun whom you have every right if not obligation to resist and a Tax Collector for the State who is collecting the tariff to perserve civilisation?

The tax collector has identification which will indicate that they are a representative of the government, plus the tax collector has the authority to take me to court if I refuse to pay taxes. The thief with a gun has no identification and no authority to take me to court if I refuse to hand over money.