Signs of the Times... what do you see?

[Numbers In The Sky]

I think drugs are an enormous issue. Seems the Bible should clearly warn us. Maybe it does. Anyone know? Wait. A thought just comes to mind: some drugs seem to be good, but do they help us believe in miracles from God?

 

[Numbers In The Sky]

I'm not looking for debate here.
I would rather we don't debate. I don't care if you are pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib.
Jesus said we ought to be watching for His coming, and He told us to watch for the signs.

What have you seen recently, that looks to you like a sign of the end?

Something that excited me today, was when I read about what the Jewish year 5777 means, to rabbis.
5 is the number of Grace.
And 7 is the number of completion.
And 3 repetitions means it's the hand of God at work.

Putting it all together, 5777 means, according to many Jewish rabbis, the year that God completes the work of Grace!

Ephesians 3:2-6 tells us that we are now living in the dispensation of Grace, which is the Gentiles being included in the body of Christ.

Of course, Jesus said there is a time in the future, when the times of the Gentiles will be fulfilled. Luke 21:24

And Paul said in Romans 11:
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved...

Could this be the year? I am not setting a date... but I'm just wondering.
Watching, waiting, and wondering.

I remember how that in 1917, the Balfour Declaration was issued, opening the land of Palestine to Jewish settlement.
And exactly 50 years later, in the 6-day war, Israel gained control of Jerusalem.

This year, 2017... the year 5777 on the Jewish calendar... is exactly 50 years later.
I'm sitting on the edge of my seat!

 

[Numbers In The Sky]

I'm not looking for debate here.
I would rather we don't debate. I don't care if you are pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib.
Jesus said we ought to be watching for His coming, and He told us to watch for the signs.

What have you seen recently, that looks to you like a sign of the end?

Something that excited me today, was when I read about what the Jewish year 5777 means, to rabbis.
5 is the number of Grace.
And 7 is the number of completion.
And 3 repetitions means it's the hand of God at work.

Putting it all together, 5777 means, according to many Jewish rabbis, the year that God completes the work of Grace!

Ephesians 3:2-6 tells us that we are now living in the dispensation of Grace, which is the Gentiles being included in the body of Christ.

Of course, Jesus said there is a time in the future, when the times of the Gentiles will be fulfilled. Luke 21:24

And Paul said in Romans 11:
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved...

Could this be the year? I am not setting a date... but I'm just wondering.
Watching, waiting, and wondering.

I remember how that in 1917, the Balfour Declaration was issued, opening the land of Palestine to Jewish settlement.
And exactly 50 years later, in the 6-day war, Israel gained control of Jerusalem.

This year, 2017... the year 5777 on the Jewish calendar... is exactly 50 years later.
I'm sitting on the edge of my seat!

 

[Numbers In The Sky]

I'm not looking for debate here.
I would rather we don't debate. I don't care if you are pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib.
Jesus said we ought to be watching for His coming, and He told us to watch for the signs.

What have you seen recently, that looks to you like a sign of the end?

Something that excited me today, was when I read about what the Jewish year 5777 means, to rabbis.
5 is the number of Grace.
And 7 is the number of completion.
And 3 repetitions means it's the hand of God at work.

Putting it all together, 5777 means, according to many Jewish rabbis, the year that God completes the work of Grace!

Ephesians 3:2-6 tells us that we are now living in the dispensation of Grace, which is the Gentiles being included in the body of Christ.

Of course, Jesus said there is a time in the future, when the times of the Gentiles will be fulfilled. Luke 21:24

And Paul said in Romans 11:
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved...

Could this be the year? I am not setting a date... but I'm just wondering.
Watching, waiting, and wondering.

I remember how that in 1917, the Balfour Declaration was issued, opening the land of Palestine to Jewish settlement.
And exactly 50 years later, in the 6-day war, Israel gained control of Jerusalem.

This year, 2017... the year 5777 on the Jewish calendar... is exactly 50 years later.
I'm sitting on the edge of my seat!

 

[Numbers In The Sky]

I think drugs are an enormous issue. Seems the Bible should clearly warn us. Maybe it does. Anyone know? Wait. A thought just comes to mind: some drugs seem to be good, but do they help us believe in miracles from God?

 

[dad]

He did.

[/quoute]The last part refers to His second coming, thousands of years later than the rest of the verse.

Where does the Bible teach it would be thousands of years later?[/QUOTE]

You think that the time of His vengeance happened already!?



"Just look around" in not an answer to that question.
You can either show where scripture teaches it, or you can't.

[/wuote]As for Revelation, the events foretold vividly there are detailed and clearly only possibly fulfilled at the end of the world..

As scripture itself demonstrates, The events In Revelation are no less vivid than David's defeat of Saul?[/QUOTE]

Tell us when we saw Jesus come from heaven to slay all the wicked and rule?
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. 19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Was David exaggerating?

No way for you to know if you cannot or refuse to detect the prophetic parts of verses. It's like looking at the colors of the rainbow with green night vision glasses on.

If you allow for such OT phrases as "Yahweh rides on a cloud" and was "seen by the eyes of all nations" to be metaphor, you must then demonstrate where scripture teaches you to apply a polar opposite interpretation to NT phrases such as "He is coming on the clouds and every eye shall see."

It would be confusing when one doesn't know what most of the verses refer to I guess. My suggestion: come on over to the prophecy savvy side...the water is fine here.

 

[parousia70]

Where does the Bible teach it would be thousands of years later?

You think that the time of His vengeance happened already!?



"Just look around" in not an answer to that question.
You can either show where scripture teaches it, or you can't.


As scripture itself demonstrates, The events In Revelation are no less vivid than David's defeat of Saul?

Tell us when we saw Jesus come from heaven to slay all the wicked and rule?
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. 19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


No way for you to know if you cannot or refuse to detect the prophetic parts of verses. It's like looking at the colors of the rainbow with green night vision glasses on.
It would be confusing when one doesn't know what most of the verses refer to I guess. My suggestion: come on over to the prophecy savvy side...the water is fine here.

So the answer is you can't show it from scripture.
Noted.

 

[parousia70]

Where does the Bible teach it would be thousands of years later?

"Just look around" in not an answer to that question.
You can either show where scripture teaches it, or you can't.[
Just the fact that 2000 years HAS passed is enough to prove that time gap.

Only if you dismiss the Precedent set by the prophets for the use and interpretation of this language, in favor of a polar opposite, carnal, hyper literal interpretation taught nowhere in scripture.

God did not want it generally known how long it would be between Jesus' Advents.

So your position is that God wanted his flocks to believe something that was not true?

However, we are given the clues in Hosea 6:2 and Luke 13:32, both say two 'days' between the first coming and the Millennium. A 'day' to the Lord, being 1000 years earth time. Psalms 90:4, 2 Peter 3:8

Only if you ignore the fact that Psalms 90:4 teaches that 1000 years to God equals "a watch in the night" which is a period of 3-6 earth hours.

You should probably get a sharpie or exacto knife and redact that passage from your bible, because the only way you can arrive at your conclusion is if that passage was not there.

You are right that He did give clues... namely that in EVERY PARABLE of the Master leaving his servants and returning, He always is depicted as returning to the very same servants He left, within their lifetimes... not to their children, grandchildren and great grandchildren or descendants thousands of years later, but to the very people he left.

Dad; we can all see how you are battling with someone who uses denigration and scathing abuse in his rebuttals. His preterist view comes from his church, the very idea of what is prophesied to happen in the end times is an anathema to him. Revelation 17:15-18

Ahh Keras, I thought we were friends?... no need for personal attacks. Makes you argument look weak.
Stick to addressing my points.

 

[Riberra]

Understanding Prophetic Symbols and Apocalyptic Language Of The Bible

Revelation was written by John around 90 AD thus AFTER the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD .Thus the things written in Revelation must cover other events...some of which who were to happen "SOON" -as i have written earlier concerned a judgment by God upon the 7 Churches in existence in the time of John described in Revelation 2 And Revelation 3.... While the 7 Seals...The 7 Trumpets ...and the 7 Vials concerns other events to happen until the Physical Coming of Jesus for the Battle of Armageddon mentioned in Revelation 19:11-21.

It is possible that 5 Seals out of the 7 Seals mentioned in Revelation 6 have been opened long time ago with their respective -effect- still in action.

-The error of "partial" preterist is to think that the Book of Revelation was fulfilled in 70 AD

-While the error of the futurist is to think that the 7 Seals ...the 7 Trumpets and 7 Vials -events- concern only the last 7 years before the Coming Of Jesus in Glory.

 

[keras]

Only if you dismiss the Precedent set by the prophets for the use and interpretation of this language, in favor of a polar opposite, carnal, hyper literal interpretation taught nowhere in scripture.

We are expected to use our natural intelligence and logical thinking. This simply tells us that; yes, nearly 2000 years have passed since Jesus' Advent and most of what He and the Prophets said has not yet come to pass, therefore we need to be aware of the signs and be prepared physically and spiritually for God to take action as He has so comprehensively told us He will. Isaiah 43:13-17, Isaiah 28:21-22, Psalms 7:6-17

So your position is that God wanted his flocks to believe something that was not true?

This sort of comment should be beneath your intelligence level. It is simply nasty provocation, inferring the worst of people who oppose your views.
What I believe God wanted, was for His people to be ready at all times for blessings, or persecution. It does seem that the Apostles had the idea that Jesus would Return soon. But He didn't and we still await that glorious event. And now we know from the Revelation, about all that must happen before the Return.
I believe the signs of our time prove the imminent literal fulfilment of all the events, so carefully detailed by all the prophets, to happen at the end of this age.

Only if you ignore the fact that Psalms 90:4 teaches that 1000 years to God equals "a watch in the night" which is a period of 3-6 earth hours.

We have the confirmation of the 1 day in heaven equaling 1000 earth years in 2 Peter 3:8. The 'watch in the night' is simply Hebrew parallelism for emphasis.

You are right that He did give clues... namely that in EVERY PARABLE of the Master leaving his servants and returning, He always is depicted as returning to the very same servants He left, within their lifetimes... not to their children, grandchildren and great grandchildren or descendants thousands of years later, but to the very people he left.

Parables are just stories for our education, not literally about actual people. We must learn from them; saying they pertained to people in ancient times, is preterism gone mad!

Ahh Keras, I thought we were friends?... no need for personal attacks. Makes you argument look weak.
Stick to addressing my points.

I post facts and the fact is that your attitude leaves a lot to be desired.

Sorry about the quadruple posts! I hope the forum is fixed now and puts up posts normally.

 

[parousia70]

You think that the time of His vengeance happened already!?

Jesus said, when foretelling of Jerusalems 70 AD destruction:

Luke 21:20-22
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled

Why do you think He was wrong?

 

[PollyJetix]

I think drugs are an enormous issue. Seems the Bible should clearly warn us. Maybe it does. Anyone know? Wait. A thought just comes to mind: some drugs seem to be good, but do they help us believe in miracles from God?

Actually, the book of Revelation mentions drugs, in the Greek.

Revelation 9:20-21

And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

The word "sorceries" in the Greek, is "pharmakia."
It means "medicines."

Now, of course, God doesn't mind if we use medicine. The Bible talks good about medicine, in most places.
But in the end-times, there will be a kind of "medication" that is sinful.... and it's here.

 

[Revealing Times]

Jesus said, when foretelling of Jerusalems 70 AD destruction:

Luke 21:20-22
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled

Why do you think He was wrong?

I just destroyed this assumption that Luke 20 was about 70 AD in my Matthew Thread.

 

[dad]

So the answer is you can't show it from scripture.
Noted.

The answer is that Jesus stoped before the bit about His return, and read just the bits about His coming. If you don't know when that was just look at the year...2017.

 

[dad]

Jesus said, when foretelling of Jerusalems 70 AD destruction:

Luke 21:20-22
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled

Why do you think He was wrong?

I think that the main application was to the time of the wrath of God.

 

[Archivist]

From the KJV....

Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

I'll stick with NIV: "Now learn this lesson from the fig tree..."

You have never listed exactly what interpretation you are talking about. Give the exact case and the details of it. You want me to tell you why someone else is wrong, without even identifying the person and what the basis of his/her interpretation was? You have to give specifics, what was that person's identification of the fig tree and what was the length of a generation?

I earlier provided a whole list of end time predictions that were wrong. I'm not going to give the exact case and details of each incorrect prediction, and I never asked you to tell me why this predictions were wrong. All I said in this thread--which I will once again say--is that if our Lord and Savior doesn't know the hour and the day then it isn't up to us to make predictions.

 

[Douggg]

I earlier provided a whole list of end time predictions that were wrong. I'm not going to give the exact case and details of each incorrect prediction, and I never asked you to tell me why this predictions were wrong. All I said in this thread--which I will once again say--is that if our Lord and Savior doesn't know the hour and the day then it isn't up to us to make predictions.

Well, you probably don't remember what you wrote in post 238...

"And you have not identified why your interpretation is right while others were wrong. In fact others in this thread have pointed out that there are flwas in what you are saying."

So I ask for the specifics of each failed interpretation to identify specifically why they were wrong. Which you are declining to give.

Now you are going back to no-one knows the day nor hour. Which again, the bible doesn't instruct us to pinpoint the day nor the hour, but to learn the parable of the fig tree. So what is your interpretation of the fig tree and the length of a generation?

Which I don't think you want to learn the parable of the fig tree, but just sit back and criticize without actually making a tangible biblical argument.

 

[parousia70]

no, I think the referral is to the peoples, cities, nations in Ezekiel 38 of God/Magog.

Jerusalem (a city) as the fig tree and Israel (a nation) as the fig tree, keep in mind are preliminary to the beginning of the 70th week. Which Gog/Magog is right before the 70th week as well. So those peoples, cities, nations listed in Ezekiel 38 are the other trees, imo.

And they all Put forth their leaves in 1967 along with the fig?

How?

And what of the verese I posted supporting a 40 year biblical generation?
I noticed you didn't address those, but are still asking for a biblical definition of generation that isn't. 70 years...

Curious.

 

[Douggg]

And they all Put forth their leaves in 1967 along with the fig?

How?

And what of the verese I posted supporting a 40 year biblical generation?
I noticed you didn't address those, but are still asking for a biblical definition of generation that isn't. 70 years...

Curious.

Well a fig tree doesn't put forth fruit in it's initial stages of it's leaves being tender. During the great tribulation period is when Jerusalem (the Jews there) become Christians and start producing fruit. This is not to discount the many wonderful Jews who are saved and leading others to Jesus, right now.

On the forty years for a generation (misunderstanding), of them who died off because they refused to go into the promised land, I assuming you are talking about.

The cutoff point was persons who were above the age of twenty something at the time, So everyone about twenty something all died off before the forty years ended. Which means that generation was in it's sixties.

Actually, even so, in the past I tried the 40 years to different base years - and the combinations thereof, the due dates have all passed. The only combination left is the 1967 plus 70 years.

 

[parousia70]

Well a fig tree doesn't put forth fruit in it's initial stages of it's leaves being tender.

If you claim that 1967 was the "Fig tree putting forth its leaves", then you must also claim that 1967 was "ALL THE TREES" putting forth their leaves.

Ill ask again, How did ALL NATIONS put forth their leaves in 1967?

(BTW, nothing about Fruit in the parable of the fig tree)

On the forty years for a generation (misunderstanding), of them of them who died off because they refused to go into the promised land, I assuming you are talking about.

I'm talking about this very specific generational timeline in Matthew 1:17 :

So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.

Show us how 70 years = one generation in this passage please.
Should be simple math.

Actually, even so, in the past I tried the 40 years to different base years - and the combinations thereof, the due dates have all passed. The only combination left is the 1967 plus 70 years.

So you are saying here that you have a pre determined conclusion that you need to make the scripture fit.
I would suggest the proper exegesis would be to let the scripture determine the conclusion, not the other way around.

 

[parousia70]

We are expected to use our natural intelligence and logical thinking. This simply tells us that; yes, nearly 2000 years have passed since Jesus' Advent and most of what He and the Prophets said has not yet come to pass

Or you have misunderstood the intended the NATURE of those things coming to pass.

What I believe God wanted, was for His people to be ready at all times for blessings, or persecution.

Nothing to do with eschatology, but I agree.

It does seem that the Apostles had the idea that Jesus would Return soon.

Where do you think they got that Idea from?

We have the confirmation of the 1 day in heaven equaling 1000 earth years in 2 Peter 3:8.

And we have confirmation of 1000 years in heaven equaling 1 day on earth in 2 Peter 3:8. Both are true. God is Timeless
God doesn't have soon, shortly, near or far, long time. Those are ALL Human terms.

Parables are just stories for our education, not literally about actual people.

So the parables of the landowner and servants do not represent Jesus/God and the people?

Matthew 21:33-45 is not about God, the lord of the Vineyard, the Prophets, His son Jesus being Killed and the wicked Husbandmen are not the Saducees, Pharisees ?

Which private interpretation is this from?