Should people living in sin be rejected from the church

[Kenny'sID]

Wow, more false accusations. Not surprised.

The irony is you've completely missed the point of the OP, "put right in front of you."

Goading me will only get you one thing, and though I won't do it, someone else might.

 

[rjs330]

Gen - Rev...

That’s Why I know Mercy is our call!

Law or Grace

They are incomparable in any ones hands, but God.

I’m surprised you haven’t been honest enough with yourself to understand this.

Law shows our need for Grace...

Once Grace is understood... to go back to Law is like a dog returning to its vomit.

I think it would be good for you to really do a deep study on this. What you will find is your thoughts are not scriptural. What you are having difficulty with is something a lot of people struggle with. Which is thinking that all confrontation over sin is pride and self righteousness. The scripture actually teaches otherwise. It teaches us that we can confront and indeed SHOULD be speaking to one another about sinful behavior. BUT we must not do it from pride or self righteousness. The Bible teaches us that we can do it. It's a matter of our attitude.

There are some very good reasons to speak to each other about sinfulness. A study on this subject would show you that.

 

[rjs330]

Sexual immorality by Christ’s definition is in the heart and mind and all else is identical in display.

There is much in scripture that you overlook to attempt to bypass Romans 2:1 and Christ’s emphatic warnings to not judge as the Pharisees and teachers of the Law did.

If any man declares His right to attend a body of Christ assembly as more correct than another’s... they are calling themselves good, when they are evil.

This is literally etched into the entire New Testament narrative and started by the words of Jesus Christ.

Then why did Paul tells us not to associate with those people who do those things? If what you say is true then Paul is wrong. The scriptures are then contradicting themselves.
Furthmore Jesus also contradicted himself if you are correct. He told us to confront someone who sins against us and if the person fails to repent we are to have nothing to do with them. That is a diirect contradiction to what you are saying Christ taught.

 

[sunlover1]

WHAT ?? UGH ????

Does a 2 or 3 year old joyful contented baby boy say UGH ! when his father tells him to do something ? (not if they were raised in the way they should go)....

THEY LOVE BEING WITH and DOING WHATEVER their FATHER SAYS TO DO !

It was sarcasm.
(Obviously my communication skills aren't what I thought they were lol)

 

[sunlover1]

Compassion doesn’t condone, nor condemn.

People know their sins well! Even atheists! What they lack is Love!

I am in total agreement!!!!
In fact, I often say that same thing!
Wooot, we agree on something!! lol

That’s our Spiritual mission! How far do we go? Ask Jesus. He went all the way to the grave.

Well, we don't have to die for anyone, we're no savior, but yes, we go the mile!

We speak the TRUTH in LOVE... amen!

Read Revelation 3

 

[Grip Docility]

Then why did Paul tells us not to associate with those people who do those things? If what you say is true then Paul is wrong. The scriptures are then contradicting themselves.
Furthmore Jesus also contradicted himself if you are correct. He told us to confront someone who sins against us and if the person fails to repent we are to have nothing to do with them. That is a diirect contradiction to what you are saying Christ taught.

I’ve said Matthew 23 is the key to this all this time and no one on your side of the discussion is actually looking into it.

I’ve maintained a very specific stance from very specific reference and not one person with the cast them as understood perspective has investigated.

Look up what a harlot is to God in the Old Testament.

Check Proverbs on the matter.

Who does Jesus call leavening and what is “their” (the leavening’s) stance on matters?

 

[Grip Docility]

I think it would be good for you to really do a deep study on this. What you will find is your thoughts are not scriptural. What you are having difficulty with is something a lot of people struggle with. Which is thinking that all confrontation over sin is pride and self righteousness. The scripture actually teaches otherwise. It teaches us that we can confront and indeed SHOULD be speaking to one another about sinful behavior. BUT we must not do it from pride or self righteousness. The Bible teaches us that we can do it. It's a matter of our attitude.

There are some very good reasons to speak to each other about sinfulness. A study on this subject would show you that.

The Holy Spirit convicts...

Can we do a better job?

I appreciate your attempt to suggest I haven’t studied this, (sarcasm) but that is not the case. Can we all learn new things? Absolutely. I never stop learning... but on this matter, I’m razor sharp.

2 Corinthians 2 is a good place to start and 2 Corinthians 2:11 is imparitive to Exegete out and contextually evaluate with all of both letters to the Corinthians taken into account.

“Ministers of the New Covenant” is a good passage to zero in on in Corinthians, then keep building from there.

No friend... This is etched on my soul by many trials, failures and unfortunately... failures to extend grace to people that have now died.

A friend of mine died over a 5 dollar dispute by a knife, and I had taken the stance you and many assume is the biblical answer.

I assure you, the investment within us is far more powerful than he who is in the world.

When a person dies... and the gravity of that loss hits... it becomes well known to the sensitive conscience that Love was the only answer and all else was wasted time.

I know the scriptures well that I wish I had known then, now... But my friend... one of many that are now dead... and my previously rigid, shallow approach based on an assumed understanding... is more than proven false.

A seared conscience has no compassion and has zero trust in the power of God to save the hopeless. A seared conscience is void of grace and only concerned with its own soul and skin.

I assure you... it is a miracle that I speak as I do and the Love I keep speaking of is the only Power needed to break the power of the devil!

God is Love!

Stop and really think about that! God does it all and has blessed us with the opportunity to be His hands and mouth of Love. We are the Body!

All know what the Body is against... but do they know how God fixed it all?

While we were yet sinners is one of the most important verses to wield. Ponder on that for a moment!

Do you really believe rigid administrative actions of a church assist a soul?!?

The members have failed that person if it gets that far!!!

One Teacher! One Name! One Hope!

You are aware God reaches us outside of scripture as well? Life.. people... experience... failure... success... the Holy Spirit teaches... (1 John 2:27)

Study? I assure you... I’ve studied this in extreme depth.... by the compelling Love of Christ.

By the grace of God, Alone, there go I!

All grace and peace in Jesus Christ to you.

 

[Grip Docility]

Love is fluid and adaptive, like people... while rules are rigid and unbending.

Which one did God exalt?

Love... or due consequence to the deserving sinner?

I would say... He focused on Love and took our due consequence.

 

[sunlover1]

The Holy Spirit convicts...

Can we do a better job?

I appreciate your attempt to suggest I haven’t studied this, (sarcasm) but that is not the case. Can we all learn new things? Absolutely. I never stop learning... but on this matter, I’m razor sharp.

.

The guy's trying to bless you!
Not to be rude
but 'razor sharp' on this matter isn't where you're standing.
Be teachable.
God says to stay away from drunks, liars, perverts, gossips.. etc..
IF they "claim" to be a brother.

You may not LIKE that, but it's not OUR fault.
We didn't write the Bible.

 

[sunlover1]

Love is fluid and adaptive, like people... while rules are rigid and unbending.

Which one did God exalt?

Love... or due consequence to the deserving sinner?

I would say... He focused on Love and took our due consequence.

We don't live by rules.
no one but you is mentioning "rules".
We're talking about unrepentant hearts.
Jesus Himself said, unless one is born of the Spirit, they
cannot enter the Kingdom.
If someone's raping and murdering, they're not entering, dude.
You can talk about Jesus writing in the dirt all day, not going
to change the facts.
Same Jesus who wrote in the sand said THIS:

Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you are unable to accept My message. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out his desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, refusing to uphold the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, because he is a liar and the father of lies.


Nothing about "rules" there, right?
All about lies and truth.

 

[sunlover1]

Love is fluid and adaptive, like people... while rules are rigid and unbending.

Which one did God exalt?

Love... or due consequence to the deserving sinner?

• LOVE, for His kids.

For whom the Lord loves he chastens, and scourges every son whom he receives

• For the children of the devil? Due consequences.

How to know which is which? See below:
Little children,b let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous. 8The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil.

See?
No rules, we know a tree by it's fruit.
Nothing to do with rules

 

[FireDragon76]

Actually, although that SOUNDS lovely, it's not true.
It's "true" that man sins.
where's the love in that?
Yet it's still 'truth'.
OTOH, there's no LOVE, in lies.
Pope, he being lying (in the news) today

It's not lying to refrain from shaming and humiliating other people.

 

[FireDragon76]

We don't live by rules.
no one but you is mentioning "rules".
We're talking about unrepentant hearts.
Jesus Himself said, unless one is born of the Spirit, they
cannot enter the Kingdom.

The above quote means something entirely different to a traditional Lutheran, than what you assume it means. You think it means, live a perfectly repentant life. This is not how we understand it at all.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Goading me will only get you one thing, and though I won't do it, someone else might.

Like the avatar.
Were you a fan of the "Outer Limits" series? [I was ]
Good night...........

 

[Kenny'sID]

Like the avatar.
Were you a fan of the "Outer Limits" series? [I was ]
Good night...........

Now that was a blast from the past, and thanks, that is the intention of the avatar...just something all too familiar.

And yes, I experienced the awe and mystery many a night as a kid...had to rate up there as my favorite show at some points.

 

[Norbert L]

You’ve never said to anyone my church is a great church or I love my church? Are you a sinner or are you righteous? Are you not guilty of breaking all of God’s commandments?

Those questions are no answer to the question, "how is it their church"? An answer like, they spent the last 20 yrs giving regular donations to the church, could be something to discuss. However I don't own a church either, Christians are bought with a price 1 Corinthians 6:20.

If a couple doesn't believe in biblical marriage but wants to be part of a church and force it to accept them, you can see the problem this creates?

 

[Grip Docility]

We don't live by rules.
no one but you is mentioning "rules".
We're talking about unrepentant hearts.
Jesus Himself said, unless one is born of the Spirit, they
cannot enter the Kingdom.
If someone's raping and murdering, they're not entering, dude.
You can talk about Jesus writing in the dirt all day, not going
to change the facts.
Same Jesus who wrote in the sand said THIS:

Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you are unable to accept My message. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out his desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, refusing to uphold the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, because he is a liar and the father of lies.


Nothing about "rules" there, right?
All about lies and truth.

Fair enough. Unconditional Love is the only thing that will break an unrepentant heart.

As for the father of lies... I can tell you that when I had the mind against the unrepentant... he had dominion over me.

When Jesus overwhelmed my life at a later age... Though I started my journey with Him earlier at 13... that my heart opened to all. I remember when it struck me that 1 John 2:2 had deeper value than I had realized.

John 5:39 is a key to this discussion and so is Matthew 23.

I’ve said this over and over and it keeps going ignored.

What does an unrepentant sinner “look like”?

You’ve given the example of a “Barabbas” type. Isn’t it interesting that he was set free because of Jesus?

Who was about to Stone an Adulterous in the writing in the “dust of the earth” instance?

Why do I keep referencing Matthew 23 as a key to all of this?

Isn’t the unrepentant heart the one that has the highest priority? After all, they are in danger of missing eternity.

 

[Grip Docility]

• LOVE, for His kids.

For whom the Lord loves he chastens, and scourges every son whom he receives

• For the children of the devil? Due consequences.

How to know which is which? See below:
Little children,b let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous. 8The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil.

See?
No rules, we know a tree by it's fruit.
Nothing to do with rules

Please explain how “greater love hath no man that He lay down His life for His friends” and 1 John 2:2... don’t go together.

 

[Grip Docility]

The guy's trying to bless you!
Not to be rude
but 'razor sharp' on this matter isn't where you're standing.
Be teachable.
God says to stay away from drunks, liars, perverts, gossips.. etc..
IF they "claim" to be a brother.

You may not LIKE that, but it's not OUR fault.
We didn't write the Bible.

John 5:39 shows that Jesus’ mercy trumps what is written, because what is written testifies of Him.

He said it. Take it up with Him.

I wrote so much more in that post and you glossed over it. I even expressed a sorrow in my life.

I self disclosed in that post and you glossed over it.... and went to correction mode.

Why?

 

[sunlover1]

The above quote means something entirely different to a traditional Lutheran, than what you assume it means. You think it means, live a perfectly repentant life. This is not how we understand it at all.

If you're born again, you don't continue in
sin, according to God.
Does your church believe 1 John 3:9

Little children,b let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous. 8The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil.
9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God and the children of the devil can be distinguished: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

Let
No
One
Deceive
You