Should people living in sin be rejected from the church

Philip_B

Bread is Blessed & Broken Wine is Blessed & Poured
Site Supporter
Jul 12, 2016
5,412
5,519
72
Swansea, NSW, Australia
Visit site
✟609,347.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I think sometimes it pays to remember the Montanist Controversy. The high moral precepts we uphold should not manifest themselves in Pride, Judgmentalism, or a failure to declare the forgiveness of sins won for us so dearly by Christ upon the cross.

Father, forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us.​
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: Isaiah60
Upvote 0

Isaiah60

Anglican
May 30, 2018
141
65
53
Janesville
✟13,235.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I think sometimes it pays to remember the Montanist Controversy. The high moral precept we uphold should not manifest themselves in Pride, Judgmentalism, or a failure to declare the forgiveness of sins won for us so dearly by Christ upon the cross.

Father, forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us.​

I agree with your post 150% ;)
I'm new to this forum so still getting used to things here. I figured out how to follow you but not how to reply to your profile post. But anyway thanks for the nice short compliment on my profile pic. I'm a new Anglican of the Anglican Continuum and not of the Episcopalian apostasy. I am nearing the end of my confirmation class and happy to have found a real Christian church that sticks to sound doctrine and is also Credo. I am just surprised that more people aren't Anglicans. Its the best of both worlds, Roman Catholic and Protestant, without all the heresies. Great worship services but takes a little time adjusting to it. I already own a rosary and am learning that. I am nothing but happy to become an Anglican Catholic because finally I have found a good church without any pet-doctrines. I don't get to meet many fellow Anglicans online. Not all Anglicans are of the Continuum which makes things a little confusing. Anyway, nice to meet you and God bless. Wow, I'm not spending much time on FB anymore LOL!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Philip_B
Upvote 0

Jan001

Striving to win the prize...
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2013
2,196
334
Midwest
✟108,359.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Good luck saving yourself. I’m done arguing the point. I still screw up. That’s called Honesty and 1 John 1:8..................................

RE: "Good luck saving yourself."
REPLY:

No one can save himself by himself. We must cooperate with the Holy Spirit of Grace and obey Him if we want to inherit/enter into eternal life after we die.
Acts 5:32, Hebrews 10:26-31

1 Timothy 4:16
Take heed to yourself and to your teaching; hold to that, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers. rsv

1 Timothy 2:15
Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty. rsv

John 8:31
Jesus then said to the Jews who had believed in him, “If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples, rsv

Acts 14:22
strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God. rsv
Jesus/God will not save us/approve us for eternal life without our cooperation with His grace. He meets us where we are, but He expects us to strive to become like Jesus Christ. If we do not do this, we will not be approved to enter into eternal life after we die.

Luke 13:23-27
And some one said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them, 24 “Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the householder has risen up and shut the door, you will begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us.’ He will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ 27 But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from; depart from me, all you workers of iniquity!’ rsv

Matthew 7:20-23
Thus you will know them by their fruits. 21 “Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’ rsv

1 John 2:3
And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments. rsv


Do you still screw up?

1 John 1:8

1 John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. rsv
I don't know anyone who does not sin and that especially includes me. There is a remedy for our sins. We ask Jesus for forgiveness and we strive to not do the sin again.

1 John 2:1-3
My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and he is the expiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments. rsv​

Now for the flip side;

Do you place those deeds into the Love your neighbor category, while not focusing on the actual Law of Moses?

Is that what you mean?

Sibling, I’m pretty brief with my replies most of the time and I think I may be being hard on you, when I may not understand you correctly.

I really don’t want to be so harsh in my replies to you. Please forgive me and help me understand your perspective in simple words that I won’t misunderstand.

We all make mistakes. :)

Regarding the Law of Moses for the New Covenant Christians:

Galatians 3:23-26
Now before faith (law of Christ) came, we were confined under the law (of Moses), kept under restraint until faith (law of Christ) should be revealed. 24 So that the law (of Moses) was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith (law of Christ). 25 But now that faith (law of Christ) has come, we are no longer under a custodian (law of Moses); 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. rsv​

Christians are not bound by the letter of the Law of Moses which is its ceremonial/religious laws and dietary laws. Christians are bound by the spirit of the Law of Moses which is the commandments that were in place before the Law of Moses was put into effect: Mark 10:18-20, Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:13-15

John 5:28-29
Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment. rsv

2 Corinthians 3

Jesus initially saves us so that we may have the hope of (possibility of) inheriting/entering into eternal life after we die. How we respond to His gift of salvation during our lifetime is what actually determines if He will approve us worthy to inherit eternal life. His initial free gift of salvation is not a guarantee of our inheriting/entering into eternal life.

Titus 3:7
so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life. rsv

James 1:12
Blessed is the man who endures trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life which God has promised to those who love him. rsv
The test for eternal life that we must pass is this: Have we strived to be obedient to God's commandments? When we fail, do we then ask for forgiveness and strive to become the persons that God desires us to become?

2 Peter 1:3-11
His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, 4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, that through these you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature. 5 For this very reason make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, 7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For whoever lacks these things is blind and shortsighted and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be the more zealous to confirm your call and election, for if you do this you will never fall; 11 so there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. rsv
 
  • Like
Reactions: sunlover1
Upvote 0

Grip Docility

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2017
4,443
1,722
North America
✟83,913.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
RE: "Good luck saving yourself."
REPLY:

No one can save himself by himself. We must cooperate with the Holy Spirit of Grace and obey Him if we want to inherit/enter into eternal life after we die.
Acts 5:32, Hebrews 10:26-31

1 Timothy 4:16
Take heed to yourself and to your teaching; hold to that, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers. rsv

1 Timothy 2:15
Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty. rsv

John 8:31
Jesus then said to the Jews who had believed in him, “If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples, rsv

Acts 14:22
strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God. rsv
Jesus/God will not save us/approve us for eternal life without our cooperation with His grace. He meets us where we are, but He expects us to strive to become like Jesus Christ. If we do not do this, we will not be approved to enter into eternal life after we die.

Luke 13:23-27
And some one said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them, 24 “Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the householder has risen up and shut the door, you will begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us.’ He will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ 27 But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from; depart from me, all you workers of iniquity!’ rsv

Matthew 7:20-23
Thus you will know them by their fruits. 21 “Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’ rsv

1 John 2:3
And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments. rsv




1 John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. rsv
I don't know anyone who does not sin and that especially includes me. There is a remedy for our sins. We ask Jesus for forgiveness and we strive to not do the sin again.

1 John 2:1-3
My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and he is the expiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments. rsv​



We all make mistakes. :)

Regarding the Law of Moses for the New Covenant Christians:

Galatians 3:23-26
Now before faith (law of Christ) came, we were confined under the law (of Moses), kept under restraint until faith (law of Christ) should be revealed. 24 So that the law (of Moses) was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith (law of Christ). 25 But now that faith (law of Christ) has come, we are no longer under a custodian (law of Moses); 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. rsv​

Christians are not bound by the letter of the Law of Moses which is its ceremonial/religious laws and dietary laws. Christians are bound by the spirit of the Law of Moses which is the commandments that were in place before the Law of Moses was put into effect: Mark 10:18-20, Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:13-15

John 5:28-29
Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment. rsv

2 Corinthians 3

Jesus initially saves us so that we may have the hope of (possibility of) inheriting/entering into eternal life after we die. How we respond to His gift of salvation during our lifetime is what actually determines if He will approve us worthy to inherit eternal life. His initial free gift of salvation is not a guarantee of our inheriting/entering into eternal life.

Titus 3:7
so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life. rsv

James 1:12
Blessed is the man who endures trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life which God has promised to those who love him. rsv
The test for eternal life that we must pass is this: Have we strived to be obedient to God's commandments? When we fail, do we then ask for forgiveness and strive to become the persons that God desires us to become?

2 Peter 1:3-11
His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, 4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, that through these you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature. 5 For this very reason make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, 7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For whoever lacks these things is blind and shortsighted and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be the more zealous to confirm your call and election, for if you do this you will never fall; 11 so there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. rsv

Okay, so carnal perfection isn’t your thrust, but how we treat all of humanity and life collective?
 
Upvote 0

sunlover1

Beloved, Let us love one another
Nov 10, 2006
26,146
5,348
Under the Shadow of the Almighty
✟94,511.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
No, it's looking at the context critically.
In RED words of Jesus:
(Not popular, but true nonetheless)
V 15 is still Jesus speaking.


Revelation 22:
"Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.”

Epilogue: Invitation and Warning

12“Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

14“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood."

 
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
30,592
18,509
Orlando, Florida
✟1,257,868.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Politics
US-Democrat
  • Like
Reactions: Grip Docility
Upvote 0

sunlover1

Beloved, Let us love one another
Nov 10, 2006
26,146
5,348
Under the Shadow of the Almighty
✟94,511.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Your approach to reading the Scriptures renders Christianity impossible.
No, you just don't seem to like many of the things Jesus said.
I posted a passage, NO commentary.
In fact, I asked you for commentary.
Seems to be a disconnect.
Salright.
 
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
30,592
18,509
Orlando, Florida
✟1,257,868.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Politics
US-Democrat
No, you just don't seem to like many of the things Jesus said.
I posted a passage, NO commentary.
In fact, I asked you for commentary.
Seems to be a disconnect.
Salright.

Jesus isn't your sock puppet for your psychological hangups.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Jan001

Striving to win the prize...
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2013
2,196
334
Midwest
✟108,359.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Okay, so carnal perfection isn’t your thrust, but how we treat all of humanity and life collective?

We do show/prove our love for God by how we treat other people. Many people claim to love God, but they do not actually love Him unless they obey His commands. We must all strive to obey God's commandments to the best of our ability until the moment of death. If we do this, we will be then be approved to inherit eternal life.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, to see whether you are holding to your faith. Test yourselves. Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test! rsv 1 Thessalonians 2:4, Revelation 2:2

Salvation is a life-long process. It is not a one-time event.


James 1:12
Blessed is the man who endures trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life which God has promised to those who love him. rsv

Revelation 2:10
Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life. rsv​

We can forfeit our salvation by failing to obey some of God's laws. There are certain grievous sins that cause us to completely spurn God and by doing these sins we sever our relationship with Him. St. Paul lists several of these types of sins. Of course, we can regain our salvation/reconcile with God at any time while we are still alive on earth by repenting and confessing these grievous sins - up until the moment we die. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:4-6

The following are the two greatest commandments of God:

Mark 12:28-34
And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, “Which commandment is the first of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one; 30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” 32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that he is one, and there is no other but he; 33 and to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the strength, and to love one’s neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.” 34 And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And after that no one dared to ask him any question. rsv

See also Luke 10:25-37

 
  • Like
Reactions: sunlover1
Upvote 0

sunlover1

Beloved, Let us love one another
Nov 10, 2006
26,146
5,348
Under the Shadow of the Almighty
✟94,511.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
We do show/prove our love for God by how we treat other people. Many people claim to love God, but they do not actually love Him unless they obey His commands. We must all strive to obey God's commandments to the best of our ability until the moment of death. If we do this, we will be then be approved to inherit eternal life.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, to see whether you are holding to your faith. Test yourselves. Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test! rsv 1 Thessalonians 2:4, Revelation 2:2

Salvation is a life-long process. It is not a one-time event.


James 1:12
Blessed is the man who endures trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life which God has promised to those who love him. rsv

Revelation 2:10
Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life. rsv​

We can forfeit our salvation by failing to obey some of God's laws. There are certain grievous sins that cause us to completely spurn God and by doing these sins we sever our relationship with Him. St. Paul lists several of these types of sins.
:)

Of course, we can regain our salvation/reconcile with God at any time while we are still alive on earth by repenting and confessing these grievous sins - up until the moment we die. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:4-6
As long as it's not too late.
I'd quit playing around with it and
try to beat it now. (those in this thread
who're trying to justify sin and condemn
the Christians who share truth.) because
it's beatable. Big time.

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— 6and then have fallen away—to be restored again to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame.
 
Upvote 0

Jan001

Striving to win the prize...
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2013
2,196
334
Midwest
✟108,359.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
:)


As long as it's not too late.
I'd quit playing around with it and
try to beat it now. (those in this thread
who're trying to justify sin and condemn
the Christians who share truth.) because
it's beatable. Big time.

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— 6and then have fallen away—to be restored again to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame.

I agree. Hyperbole is sometimes used by the Lord and the Scripture writers to stress the importance of a teaching about salvation. The author of Hebrews strongly warns his hearers to not fall away because he knows that many persons who fall away will not repent before they die; they will continue to choose the pleasure that their sins give them instead of choosing to becoming obedient again to God's commandments. Disobedient and unrepentant sinners will not be approved to inherit eternal life after they die. Hebrews 10:24-31
 
Upvote 0