Should people living in sin be rejected from the church

[sunlover1]

Funny how the “kick em out crew” forget Jesus’ exact words about “The least of these”...

“If you did it to them, you did it to me”

Oh... and who can forget... “Lord, we cast out demons in Your name”.., “Get away for me, I never KNEW you”

Hmmmmm.., Honest Sinners Vs. Hypocrites...

Hmmmmm..., “Lord, have mercy on a sinner like me” ... vs. “Thank you that I’m not like them”

Let's apply that:
If you "have immoral relations" with the least of these, you do it to me.
Hmmm yikes

 

[sunlover1]

Always the same pretty words designed to cover the truth, make the truth sayer look bad and to make themselves/their ideas look good.

...according as each hath received a gift, ministering it among yourselves, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God; 11if any man speaketh,'speaking as it were oracles of God...

It's easy to know the difference when one has a standard to measure against.
IMO
I don't mean to lack compassion, not at all.
But love always speaks the truth, (1 Corinthians)
even when it's not real fun to do so.

 

[BradB]

I was in a discussion today and was shocked to hear that some people think that people who are living in sin should not be allowed to attend their church. This truly breaks my heart to hear this. The discussion was using an example of two people who are living together but aren’t married. What are your thoughts?

If we ask the question "What is the purpose of church attendance?" and then look to scripture I think we will find our answer to your question. In scriptures Sunday worship was not just your weekly "religious" duty with the tacked on benefit of trying to invite the lost in the hopes they would receive salvation. We have got a whole lot of stuff mixed up in the 21st century today. For example let me ask you a simple question. What is the purpose of the office of an Evangelist? Or the act of "evangelizing?" If your like most Christians you will think its the task of reaching the unsaved. To preach the gospel to the lost world around us. We call missionaries to other countries..."evangelists." Our pastor will announce that brother So and So is coming from Yonderfarplace who's an "evangelist" and he will tell you to invite all your unsaved friends and relatives.

This is so messed up! The proper biblical office of an evangelist is someone who equips the regular church members to be able to reach the lost "OUTSIDE" of the church. Jesus didn't say "go into all the world and build big buildings and pray some lost folks will come in and here the gospel and get saved." The Body of Christ have been shirking their responsibilities and passing the buck off onto their pastors. The pastor is the "Evangelist" if he is doing his job right and he should be equipping you and me to go out onto the streets and lanes, highways and hedges and compelling people to get saved.

So the question of "should people living in sin be allowed into church?" is based on the whole messed up notion of modernistic sick evangelism. What did Paul tell the church in Corinth to do with the guy who was living in "open sin" with his step mom? (see 1Cor. 5) He's not talking about someone who's a new convert and still struggling with sins of the flesh that he knows is wrong. He's talking about people who claim to know Christ but are okay with living in blatant open sin of adultery. If we are expecting them to only hear the message of Christ in church and therefore think we should be okay with their sin then it is us who are not doing our job. It is us who are not being obedient to Christ's call to preach from the roof tops. The Sunday meeting time should be equipping us and firing us up to go out and reach the lost in our communities. The fire of God should be so strong in that church that the openly sinful would feel the heat nipping at their pews.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I don't mean to lack compassion, not at all.
But love always speaks the truth, (1 Corinthians)
even when it's not real fun to do so.

You don't lack compassion. True compassion is telling the truth, no matter how hard it is to tell or for the receiver to take.

However to those that want to reject the truth, seems to never fail, they will try to turn that true compassion into a lack thereof, and the true love into hate.

They say right is wrong, and wrong is right.

 

[Jan001]

Ephesians 2:8-9 and Romans 4 obliterate your premise...

God “Justifies” the “Ungodly”... but... hey... maybe Paul’s 14 letters are wrong.

Once we are made righteous, our good deeds are righteous deeds and they are pleasing to God. They are not like filthy rags.

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. nkjv​

God would not command us to do good works if our good works were only like filthy rags to Him. God does not command us to do good works if it is impossible for us to do good works.

Romans 4
What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. nkjv​

Jesus first saved us when we repented and became Christians. We did nothing and could do nothing to deserve His saving grace.

However, our continuing justification/salvation depends on both God's continuing grace and our continuing response to His grace which is that we do the good works that He has prepared beforehand for us to do.

​

What happens to the people who do not bear the good fruit that God has prepared for them to do?

Matthew 25:31-46
​

Both faith and good works are necessary in order to inherit eternal life.

James 2:22-24
Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. nkjv

Matthew 21:43
“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. nkjv

John 8:31-32
Jesus then said to the Jews who had believed in him, “If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” nkjv

1 John 2:3
And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments. nkjv

Matthew 7:22-23
On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’ nkjv

​

 

[Grip Docility]

Once we are made righteous, our good deeds are righteous deeds and they are pleasing to God. They are not like filthy rags.

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. nkjv​

God would not command us to do good works if our good works were only like filthy rags to Him. God does not command us to do good works if it is impossible for us to do good works.

Romans 4
What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. nkjv​

Jesus first saved us when we repented and became Christians. We did nothing and could do nothing to deserve His saving grace.

However, our continuing justification/salvation depends on both God's continuing grace and our continuing response to His grace which is that we do the good works that He has prepared beforehand for us to do.

​

What happens to the people who do not bear the good fruit that God has prepared for them to do?

Matthew 25:31-46
​

Both faith and good works are necessary in order to inherit eternal life.

James 2:22-24
Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. nkjv

Matthew 21:43
“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. nkjv

John 8:31-32
Jesus then said to the Jews who had believed in him, “If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” nkjv

1 John 2:3
And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments. nkjv

Matthew 7:22-23
On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’ nkjv

​

Salvation is by grace alone, through faith.

Any commandment insinuations or the like are demolishing the new covenant and any ideas of carnal righteousness on this side of the grave are a mockery of scripture.

I’m well aware the “I do good deeds” crew is the majority now...

But... Love was the only thing He commanded and He asked that we Loved as He Loved His friends... (1 John 2:2)... All of His friends.

There’s no way around this... left unchallenged by the calling out of our naked nature, without Christ’s imputed Righteous... much of the church elevates itself on a theological Tower of Babel... that eventually sounds identical to Isaiah 14:14.

It just takes a little bit of leavening and the Pharisees were the key to seeing what that is.

 

[sunlover1]

You don't lack compassion. True compassion is telling the truth, no matter how hard it is to tell or for the receiver to take.

However to those that want to reject the truth, seems to never fail, they will try to turn that true compassion into a lack thereof, and the true love into hate.

They say right is wrong, and wrong is right.

I see that being done on a large scale.
We have some churches here that embrace some things
that God calls perversion.
They even allow people to be pastors who'd have been
excommunicated even in Corinth.
I'm guessing they don't 'want' to be deceived.

 

[Grip Docility]

This isn’t a game and I’m sick of how fast people gravitate to burying the Masters bestowed wealth!

It ain’t to teach carnal Righteousness, but to give HOPE to the Hopeless!!!

If a persondoesn’t know how hopeless they are without Jesus Christ, they will have no compassion for the fellow hopeless!

Love much? Forgiven much.

Love little! Forgiven little.

What’s the jey to this? Perpetual admission of need for Him and connection to all fellow sinners... and all fellow sinners forgiven!

It’s the Gospel, not the yacht club!

 

[Grip Docility]

I see that being done on a large scale.
We have some churches here that embrace some things
that God calls perversion.
They even allow people to be pastors who'd have been
excommunicated even in Corinth.
I'm guessing they don't 'want' to be deceived.

Compassion doesn’t condone, nor condemn.

People know their sins well! Even atheists! What they lack is Love!

That’s our Spiritual mission! How far do we go? Ask Jesus. He went all the way to the grave.

 

[sunlover1]

Salvation is by grace alone, through faith.

Any commandment insinuations or the like are demolishing the new covenant and any ideas of carnal righteousness on this side of the grave are a mockery of scripture.

You're correct in that we are no longer under laws.
However, once we've been born again, we now have the Spirit of God
IN us, speaking TO us, whispering to our hearts.
BAR RAISED, BAM

But... Love was the only thing He commanded and He asked that we Loved as He Loved His friends... (1 John 2:2)... All of His friends.

If you LOVE Me, you'll OBEY Me.
Jesus said ^

OBEY???
Sounds like some kind of stupid rules again, UGH.

 

[Grip Docility]

If we ask the question "What is the purpose of church attendance?" and then look to scripture I think we will find our answer to your question. In scriptures Sunday worship was not just your weekly "religious" duty with the tacked on benefit of trying to invite the lost in the hopes they would receive salvation. We have got a whole lot of stuff mixed up in the 21st century today. For example let me ask you a simple question. What is the purpose of the office of an Evangelist? Or the act of "evangelizing?" If your like most Christians you will think its the task of reaching the unsaved. To preach the gospel to the lost world around us. We call missionaries to other countries..."evangelists." Our pastor will announce that brother So and So is coming from Yonderfarplace who's an "evangelist" and he will tell you to invite all your unsaved friends and relatives.

This is so messed up! The proper biblical office of an evangelist is someone who equips the regular church members to be able to reach the lost "OUTSIDE" of the church. Jesus didn't say "go into all the world and build big buildings and pray some lost folks will come in and here the gospel and get saved." The Body of Christ have been shirking their responsibilities and passing the buck off onto their pastors. The pastor is the "Evangelist" if he is doing his job right and he should be equipping you and me to go out onto the streets and lanes, highways and hedges and compelling people to get saved.

So the question of "should people living in sin be allowed into church?" is based on the whole messed up notion of modernistic sick evangelism. What did Paul tell the church in Corinth to do with the guy who was living in "open sin" with his step mom? (see 1Cor. 5) He's not talking about someone who's a new convert and still struggling with sins of the flesh that he knows is wrong. He's talking about people who claim to know Christ but are okay with living in blatant open sin of adultery. If we are expecting them to only hear the message of Christ in church and therefore think we should be okay with their sin then it is us who are not doing our job. It is us who are not being obedient to Christ's call to preach from the roof tops. The Sunday meeting time should be equipping us and firing us up to go out and reach the lost in our communities. The fire of God should be so strong in that church that the openly sinful would feel the heat nipping at their pews.

I still think ALL should be welcome into fellowship... but about the nipping at their pews...

That old conscience pricking sermon has all but died out and to be direct... it is part of equipping the saints! The more we recognize our need for Him day to day and our own failure... the more we can share the depth of His Love to those that don’t know or understand it.

This is odd... but on some points I disagree, but on others... I totally agree.

This is rare for me.

 

[Philip_B]

We know not what Jesus drew in the dust, yet we know he challenged those who stand in judgment.

Lord, I pray,
every time I am tempted to be judgmental help me to remember
your finger tracing in the dust of my humanity,
from whence I was called, and to which I shall return.
May we be transformed by the redemptive power of your love,
in Jesus Name. Amen.​

 

[Grip Docility]

You're correct in that we are no longer under laws.
However, once we've been born again, we now have the Spirit of God
IN us, speaking TO us, whispering to our hearts.
BAR RAISED, BAM


If you LOVE Me, you'll OBEY Me.
Jesus said ^

OBEY???
Sounds like some kind of stupid rules again, UGH.

Um... Jesus only commanded one thing directly following that passage in John... and it is to Love as He Loved.

It’s in Exegetical context as directly connecting to 1 Corinthians 13 type Love to a hurting world!

The thing that is missing in the church now that was present then and is present in the Middle East is Persecution.

As sad as it is... all this petty discussion about what each word means... falls away when the church is under the sword.

How quickly we forget Hebrews 11!

 

[Grip Docility]

We know not what Jesus drew in the dust, yet we know he challenged those who stand in judgment.

Lord, I pray,
every time I am tempted to be judgmental help me to remember
your finger tracing in the dust of my humanity,
from whence I was called, and to which I shall return.
May we be transformed by the redemptive power of your love,
in Jesus Name. Amen.​

This post brings tears of Joy to my very heart!

Amen! I pray the same!

 

[BigDaddy4]

Na' you are clearly making something from nothing. Not one of those are name calling.

"Ignorant", means no more than you aren't aware of something, something all of us are at one time or another. "Ignoramus" would have been a name.

"Cried" simply means you protested. Cry baby would have been a name.

"dishonest" is what you were there, a fact, if it's insulting for others to say what they saw you do, then don't do it, but shifting the blame isn't going to help matters. "Dishonest #$%T$#" would have been a name.

But you will see what you want to be there regardless, if it's to your advantage, because you need the advantage...understand what's happening here now?

See, in reality, you know you have no leg to stand on here so you start this mess. Go ahead and make whatever you wish out of whatever you wish, but leave me out of your desperation to be right, when wrong, that's something you need to deal with on your own now that you know what's up..

Clearly you can't admit you were wrong in regards to the OP - it was never about church members specifically. A fact you cannot see or are unable to admit. Making it about church members and/or believers is an assumption I did not make. Even the OP admitted it wasn't about church members or believers, but those who were "attending" church and whether or not they should even be permitted to attend. It's his thread, and he gets to define the scenario however he likes. One can attend a church without being a member or a believer and, therefore, not be held to church membership requirements or standards. However, you and plenty of others did make that assumption about them being members and/or believers. That is a fact. I don't know how to make that any more clearer for you.

I need an advantage? Now you are making another false accusation. I'm clean on all accounts and don't need any kind of "advantage". Name calling? I never said that, either. One doesn't have to call names to insult another, but your attacks on my character are insults. Dishonest? Another false accusation you claim as "fact" but have no proof without be being dishonest. I'm not the one trying to distract from the OP, nor am I the one being dishonest. Your false accusations are out there for all to see. It's a shame you are too prideful to admit it. Look at the tactics you are trying to use to discredit my character and position. I don't even think you understand my position.

 

[Grip Docility]

Clearly you can't admit you were wrong in regards to the OP - it was never about church members specifically. A fact you cannot see or are unable to admit. Making it about church members and/or believers is an assumption I did not make. Even the OP admitted it wasn't about church members or believers, but those who were "attending" church and whether or not they should even be permitted to attend. It's his thread, and he gets to define the scenario however he likes. One can attend a church without being a member or a believer and, therefore, not be held to church membership requirements or standards. However, you and plenty of others did make that assumption about them being members and/or believers. That is a fact. I don't know how to make that any more clearer for you.

I need an advantage? Now you are making another false accusation. I'm clean on all accounts and don't need any kind of "advantage". Name calling? I never said that, either. One doesn't have to call names to insult another, but your attacks on my character are insults. Dishonest? Another false accusation you claim as "fact" but have no proof without be being dishonest. I'm not the one trying to distract from the OP, nor am I the one being dishonest. Your false accusations are out there for all to see. It's a shame you are too prideful to admit it. Look at the tactics you are trying to use to discredit my character and position. I don't even think you understand my position.

I’ve read enough grace in your words to carefully consider it (your position), even if it differed from mine.

All Love to you, fellow soldier of Love.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You're correct in that we are no longer under laws.
However, once we've been born again, we now have the Spirit of God
IN us, speaking TO us, whispering to our hearts.
BAR RAISED, BAM


If you LOVE Me, you'll OBEY Me.
Jesus said ^

OBEY???
Sounds like some kind of stupid rules again, UGH.

WHAT ?? UGH ????

Does a 2 or 3 year old joyful contented baby boy say UGH ! when his father tells him to do something ? (not if they were raised in the way they should go)....

THEY LOVE BEING WITH and DOING WHATEVER their FATHER SAYS TO DO !

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Better move the thread topic to controversial or kitchen sink , whichever works best.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Clearly you can't admit you were wrong in regards to the OP - it was never about church members specifically.

That's all I read because you aren't listening, so there is no point in my bothering to read/comment.

You will see what you wish to see, and choose to completely miss what is put right in front of you.

 

[BigDaddy4]

That's all I read because you aren't listening, so there is no point in my bothering to read/comment.

You will see what you wish to see, and choose to completely miss what is put right in front of you.

Wow, more false accusations. Not surprised.

The irony is you've completely missed the point of the OP, "put right in front of you."