Should Hamas Surrender?

[mark46]

Electricity can be provided in the normal way (through Israel) without fear of Hamas using it for rockets. It is against human 7

Suggesting that electricity is not needed for the Hamas war effort is really silly.

Let's be clear. Hamas started a war. Israel closed its borders. Hamas has lots of resources. It certainly can use more for its own people.

 

[mark46]

That's all well and good, but Hamas isn't doing that, and most of the western world has little in the way of leverage to convince them to. So do we throw up our hands and say that it's all Hamas's fault that everyone is dying, or do we look for other solutions (like Israel allowing fuel shipments across the border)?

The WESTERN WORLD has little to say if a country's government refusing to provide fuel and electricity to their people,

And no, the Western World is NOT going to provide food, fuel and electricity, while Hamas continues to use the resources they wish for the war effort.
=======
When folks die in the dozens of countries of the world when their autocrats withhold resources, does the West jump in to provide for the people the government chooses not support? Of course not. The way that this sometimes happens is if neighboring countries allows refugees to come in.

THE STATUS QUO

1) The Gaza government is at war with Israel.

2) Israel has closed its borders.

3) Hamas refuses to provide food, fuel and electricity to its people, and to the hospitals.

4) Egypt refuses to take in refugees.

IMO, the solution is NOT for the world to replace Hamas resources so that Hamas will have the resources for its government to continue the war, without worrying about supplies for its people.

OK, somehow, the world has decided that we will not allow starvation, no manner how much this is OK with the Gaza government.

 

[benadamm]

Why should Hamas be treated like they are a nation that follows the rules? Declare war you know, bomb military targets.

They murdered citizens, ..children.
why shouldn't Hamas be treated like a murderer? Why shouldn't Hamas be executed?

 

[Lukaris]

I would think praying that Hamas does surrender would be for the best. If by some major, major miracle Hamas would surrender, the Israelis would have to strike some balance of a humane but penal incarceration ( a sense of humanity lacking in Hamas). Perhaps, prayer for another miracle here, some form of negotiation could resume and life be respected for all.

 

[mark46]

I would think praying that Hamas does surrender would be for the best. If by some major, major miracle Hamas would surrender, the Israelis would have to strike some balance of a humane but penal incarceration ( a sense of humanity lacking in Hamas). Perhaps, prayer for another miracle here, some form of negotiation could resume and life be respected for all.

Yes, we should pray for surrender.

The result would be great pressure on the Arab states to guarantee the security of Gaza and the West Bank. As for Israel, they would need to withdraw against from Gaza and from the West Bank (with all the "settlers" also leaving. Becassuse of all the agreements with Arab states, this is possible.

 

[Semper-Fi]

“[H]e will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand
against him; and he shall dwell to the east of all his brethren” (Genesis 16:12).

The children of Ishmael have become the Arabs of today.

 

[Pommer]

Why should Hamas be treated like they are a nation that follows the rules? Declare war you know, bomb military targets.

They murdered citizens, ..children.
why shouldn't Hamas be treated like a murderer? Why shouldn't Hamas be executed?

Every single member?
Who determines who was in Hamas when it launched these attacks?

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

I really didn't know how to vote on this. Since neither side will stop. Or surrender. They both think they are right. In the end Americans will protect Israel, and not protect Ukraine. Which will cause more damage in the long run.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

THE STATUS QUO

1) The Gaza government is at war with Israel.

2) Israel has closed its borders.

3) Hamas refuses to provide food, fuel and electricity to its people, and to the hospitals.

4) Egypt refuses to take in refugees.

So we work with Egypt to convince them to allow refugees and we work with Israel to convince them to stop bombing the refugees. But in the meantime, we try to prevent the people of Gaza from dying of thirst and/or starving to death.

IMO, the solution is NOT for the world to replace Hamas resources so that Hamas will have the resources for its government to continue the war, without worrying about supplies for its people.

It's not the ideal solution, but it's better than no solution.

OK, somehow, the world has decided that we will not allow starvation, no manner how much this is OK with the Gaza government.

You say this like it's a bad thing.

 

[durangodawood]

I think Hamas needs to release the hostages' and stop launching rockets at civilians in Israel, before the IDF is going to consider anything besides invasion.

Releasing the hostages would be the clear green light for invasion and essentially a suicide move by hamas.

 

[durangodawood]

So you are saying the terrorist should not release the hostages?

I was only responding to the specific point you made about how Israel would respond.

 

[Desk trauma]

Releasing the hostages would be the clear green light for invasion and essentially a suicide move by hamas.

The invasion is a forgone conclusion at this point. Release of the hostages would be the only chance for a non lethal form of capitulation for their captors. This is the nation of the Entebbe raid and operation wrath of god, many innocents will die but they are coming for their own with bad action movie levels of ferocity.

 

[durangodawood]

The invasion is a forgone conclusion at this point. Release of the hostages would be the only chance for a non lethal form of capitulation for their captors. This is the nation of the Entebbe raid and operation wrath of god, many innocents will die but they are coming for their own with bad action movie levels of ferocity.

Aside from the hostage issue, I think hamas has already done enough to guarantee a lethal response. The presence of hostages offers the only chance for a more "careful" invasion that some can hope to escape from one way or another. At least thats how Id rationalize it.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

Hamas want the war...they wont surrender.

And Israel want vengeance.....

Hopefully they will surrender when they really don't have a choice. Kinda like Japan and Germany did.

 

[Lost4words]

Hopefully they will surrender when they really don't have a choice. Kinda like Japan and Germany did.

They wont. They just cowardly terrorists after all.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

They wont. They just cowardly terrorists after all.

I tend to agree that they won't. It would violate their "mission statement".

 

[Reasonably Sane]

Why should Hamas be treated like they are a nation that follows the rules? Declare war you know, bomb military targets.

They murdered citizens, ..children.
why shouldn't Hamas be treated like a murderer? Why shouldn't Hamas be executed?

Because I'm a student of the wars of WWII, and so many see that as the "just" war, I just tend to think, "what would FDR or Churchill do, assuming Gaza is Germany and Hamas is the Nazi party. Same with Japan regarding the military vs civilians.

It makes the answer to individual situations pretty obvious, at least to me.

An example: We bombed the heck out of Berlin and the bombing of Dresden is (in)famous. But after Germany surrendered, we did a tremendous airlift to bring in supplies to West Berlin, though during the war we had a different perspective on that city and its inhabitants. War is war. Peace is peace. They are different things that each require their own decision making process.

BTW, this is my first day here. I didn't come here to discuss politics, but when I clicked on new posts, that's what was there. Apparently it's a very popular topic. At least today...

 

[mark46]

So we work with Egypt to convince them to allow refugees and we work with Israel to convince them to stop bombing the refugees. But in the meantime, we try to prevent the people of Gaza from dying of thirst and/or starving to death.

Israel, Qatar and Egypt continue to do that. Everyone is Ok with food, water and medicines coming through Egypt.

Of what you said, it is Egypt that refuses to take any refugees.

Also, it is not even clear how much Egypt is cooperating to accept US and European citizens through their entry point.

 

[mark46]

Hopefully they will surrender when they really don't have a choice. Kinda like Japan and Germany did.

They had and a have a choice. They made it 3 weeks ago. They want to fight. Unlike in Germany and Japan, there is a fighting force that has no interest in the leves of their citizens. In addition, they have many foreign allies.

 

[mark46]

Are any of their allies not criminal ?

Nation states, by definition, aren't considered criminal. So, yes, there are nation states that are allies of Hamas.