Should Christians take up arms ?

[JM]

Why is there a consistently higher value on physical life, rather than spiritual life?

Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

98, my soon to be a Reformed Baptist friend...the context will clear up any misunderstanding. Jesus is sending out the 12 Apostles and telling them not to fear being killed for their witness and their preaching of the Gospel. Our Lord is not talking about war, self-defence, etc. but rather giving them a warning to have perseverance in the face of trials and tribulations.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[JM]

Looks like Christians have more self-claims than of other people! And also too many suppositions!

Why are you using exclamation points! It makes everything your post! Read like a rant! lol!!

 

[mikedsjr]

Love your enemies. Please read completely the Sermon on the Mount.

There is no Scriptural mandate within the Sermon on the mount it is required to not inlist in the army.

You're twisting of Scripture also means no Christian should be a police officer or security guard. If it was such a clear sin, Where is the PRESCRIPTIVE text in Scripture saying such?

Don't impose on people your belief when Scripture doesn't state what you say.

 

[JM]

Looks like Christians have more self-claims than of other people! And also too many suppositions!

If someone walked into your house and placed a knife to the throat of a loved one you'd just say, "I have no right to defend my loved one...go for it?"

 

[mikedsjr]

That contradicts the Sermon on the Mount.

The Scriptures are more than the red letters of Matthew 5-7.

However, what was the purpose of the Sermon on the Mount? To make us morally better/restrain evil? Partially. To help us know what pleases God? Partially. To make us realize none of us are good? Partially.

Would I rather the entire U.S. Military was full of Christians at the other side of the guns? Yes. At the very least they would have a higher view of humanity because of their faith.

By your standard, you wouldn't care if Hitler and Isis were running the world.

 

[98cwitr]

98, my soon to be a Reformed Baptist friend...the context will clear up any misunderstanding. Jesus is sending out the 12 Apostles and telling them not to fear being killed for their witness and their preaching of the Gospel. Our Lord is not talking about war, self-defence, etc. but rather giving them a warning to have perseverance in the face of trials and tribulations.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

And yet, while knowing they would face death, He didn't tell them to take swords to defend themselves. How does that reconcile with your philosophy?

 

[MrJim]

Romans 13.1 tells us to be subject to those in authority...that would mean if you're drafted to the army you must go...or is it optional?

Of course it's optional...simply submit to the punishment in not obeying the authority...that is still submission and completely biblical...unlike "draft dodgers"...

 

[JM]

And yet, while knowing they would face death, He didn't tell them to take swords to defend themselves. How does that reconcile with your philosophy?

He's not talking about war but evangelism. Christ is giving encouragement to face danger when preaching. How does that reconcile with your philosophy? Wink, wink. If we look at scripture in total, both testaments, it's very difficult to maintain the extreme pacifist position held by the Radical Reformation.

Consider MrJim's answer. Paul tells us to obey those in authority. It wasn't optional. MrJim is a good Anabaptist, yet, he made the instruction from Paul optional. MrJim rejected Paul's instructions and decided to go his own way.

Yours in the Lord.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

My only regret is that I am too old to dodge the draft...unless I'm in a pub and some nitwit is blowing the head off his beer at me. Ironically, I'm also too young to have dodged the draft, as it was gone by the time I was old enough. At least I'll never be too young or too old to draft a Dodge.

Do whatever it takes to minimize sin. That's the sum of my position. I leave it to each person to determine what that means. Sometimes, going to war for a secular state is nothing but a large-scale gang war. Sometimes, refusing to fight is to allow for ever more victims and ever more victorious villains. Enlisting can be the greater evil, and dodging the draft can be the greater evil. Often, we only know in hindsight. Just pray about it and do your best, and avoid making overly broad generalizations about it.

 

[Bluelion]

He wanted to be betrayed among people carrying sword because they are classified as transgressors of His law of love. David's is bygone era, not applicable for the dawn of grace so also OT standards.

what?

 

[98cwitr]

He's not talking about war but evangelism. Christ is giving encouragement to face danger when preaching. How does that reconcile with your philosophy? Wink, wink. If we look at scripture in total, both testaments, it's very difficult to maintain the extreme pacifist position held by the Radical Reformation.

Consider MrJim's answer. Paul tells us to obey those in authority. It wasn't optional. MrJim is a good Anabaptist, yet, he made the instruction from Paul optional. MrJim rejected Paul's instructions and decided to go his own way.

Yours in the Lord.

And we're not talking about war but people breaking into our homes. Don't spin this out of context, all in all the issue is "defending ourselves and family from danger."

This results from the notion that we love ourselves and our family members more than we love others. How does that reconcile with "love your neighbor as yourself?" If you loved and cared for your assailant as much as your wife, what would that look like? What I see is restraint, not justified homicide.

If Hilter was our authority, should we still obey? I think Paul's statement is being overgeneralized, for "God's servants," I believe, don't commit genocide.

 

[JM]

And we're not talking about war but people breaking into our homes. Don't spin this out of context, all in all the issue is "defending ourselves and family from danger.

I have already demonstrated in this thread, that you are injecting a meaning into "love thy neighbour" that is out of context with what Christ was quoting from the old testament. By doing so you changed the meaning. It would be up to you to demonstrate how Christ changed the meaning of what He was quoting.

To "love your enemy" is a direct quote from the OT and means that we must treat our those who we see as enemies in our community lawfully. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.

The scripture referenced is found in Lev. 19.18 and reads:

“Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.”

God is telling His people to get along even if you have an enemy in your community treat them according to my standard.

Further passages in relation to Lev. 19:

Exo 23:4,5 If thou meet thine enemy’s ox or his ass going astray, thou shalt surely bring it back to him again. If thou see the ass of him that hateth thee lying under his burden, and wouldest forbear to help him, thou shalt surely help with him.

Pro 25:21 If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink:

Pro 24:17 Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth:

Pro 29:10 The bloodthirsty hate the upright: but the just seek his soul.

I don’t want anyone to commit violence against me in their heart so I’ll refrain from posting anything further unless I can clear up any misunderstandings that may have occurred by my poor postmanship.

Yours in the Lord,


jm
PS: Plz, look up the War Psalms.

 

[Bluelion]

There is no Scriptural mandate within the Sermon on the mount it is required to not inlist in the army.

You're twisting of Scripture also means no Christian should be a police officer or security guard. If it was such a clear sin, Where is the PRESCRIPTIVE text in Scripture saying such?

Don't impose on people your belief when Scripture doesn't state what you say.

In fact what did Jesus says to soldiers who ask Him what they should do. He said do not take advantage of the people, and be happy with your pay. He never told them to leave the army. Why is that?

 

[Righttruth]

what?

Read that carefully again.

 

[Righttruth]

Why are you using exclamation points! It makes everything your post! Read like a rant! lol!!

Somethings that surprise us!

 

[Righttruth]

There is no Scriptural mandate within the Sermon on the mount it is required to not inlist in the army.

You're twisting of Scripture also means no Christian should be a police officer or security guard. If it was such a clear sin, Where is the PRESCRIPTIVE text in Scripture saying such?

Don't impose on people your belief when Scripture doesn't state what you say.

Then you are not a believer in Christ.

 

[Righttruth]

If someone walked into your house and placed a knife to the throat of a loved one you'd just say, "I have no right to defend my loved one...go for it?"

A real believer in Jesus will not get into this kind of a mess when he is guarded by the angels!

 

[Righttruth]

The Scriptures are more than the red letters of Matthew 5-7.

However, what was the purpose of the Sermon on the Mount? To make us morally better/restrain evil? Partially. To help us know what pleases God? Partially. To make us realize none of us are good? Partially.

Would I rather the entire U.S. Military was full of Christians at the other side of the guns? Yes. At the very least they would have a higher view of humanity because of their faith.
By your standard, you wouldn't care if Hitler and Isis were running the world.

Be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect. I am in the world and not of this world!

 

[Hank77]

He wanted to be betrayed among people carrying sword because they are classified as transgressors of His law of love

Are you referring to this......
Luk 22:37 for I say to you, that yet this that hath been written it behoveth to be fulfilled in me: And with lawless ones he was reckoned, for also the things concerning me have an end.'
That scripture, "numbered among the transgressors" is talking about him being crucified with the criminals [lawless ones] at the cross.

This results from the notion that we love ourselves and our family members more than we love others. How does that reconcile with "love your neighbor as yourself?" If you loved and cared for your assailant as much as your wife, what would that look like? What I see is restraint, not justified homicide.

Well, let's look at this a little differently. Would you want someone to allow you to murder someone?

 

[mikedsjr]

Then you are not a believer in Christ.

From you, I'm not concerned of accusations unfounded. You have yet to deal with Scripture in context in any meaningful way