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Should Christians take up arms ?
- Thread starter JoshuaDaryl
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If you bank on the OT and ignore the Sermon on the Mount and the preaching of Jesus, you have no hope of eternal life.
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I am not perfect, yet one need to strive for it. Without that, it is a convenient dead theology!
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Here is another:
"Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword." Matthew 26:52
People seem not to understand the concept of "permitted but not righteous." Divorce was permitted to the Jews, but it was never righteous and always was the unsatisfactory consequence of sin. Jesus did not lie. Yes, kings have permission to use the sword to maintain the order and power of their kingdoms; but all man's kingdoms will fall. The sword is permitted but not righteous, and is always the unsatisfactory consequence of sin.
For I take no delight in the death of the wicket, declares the sovereign LORD -- Ezekiel 18:32
Say to them, 'As I live,' says the Lord God, 'I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. -- Ezekiel 33:11
Israel was unique; God explicitly defined the physical borders of Israel, explicitly defined who the Jews were, and gave them a covenant unto themselves and their physical nation.
America is not Israel and is not protected the Mosaic covenant; Christians are not Jews and are not under the Mosaic covenant. Jesus did not hang on the cross to save America; Christians are "pilgrims and sojourners," not natives.
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- Jun 26, 2015
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It had nothing to do with the apostles having swords, unless you are saying the apostles were lawless and we know that is not true.
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- Jun 26, 2015
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As Abraham was,
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, being called, did obey, to go forth to the place that he was about to receive for an inheritance, and he went forth, not knowing whither he doth go;
Heb 11:9 by faith he did sojourn in the land of the promise as a strange country, in tabernacles having dwelt with Isaac and Jacob, fellow-heirs of the same promise,
Heb 11:10 for he was looking for the city having the foundations, whose artificer and constructor is God.
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mikedsjr
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The saying here does not equate to "it's a sin to be a soldier or use a weapon". The issue here requires context. Jesus' is not creating a nation of war. His kingdom is not of this world. The context doesn't answer any question posed about weapons. That's not what the passage is about. It's fulfillment of Scripture.
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And that is precisely the point: Christ's kingdom is not of this world, and Christi's kingdom is our nation. So the question is: Should a citizen of the Kingdom of Heaven take up arms for some other king's nation?
And what if doing so pits him against other citizens of the Kingdom of Heaven or endangers them? Should a citizen of the Kingdom of Heaven take up arms for some other nation when doing so endangers other citizens of the Kingdom of Heaven?
Remember that our mission from our king is to make disciples of all nations. To the extent that we have done so, we have fellow citizens in most of the nations of this world. To the extent that we have not yet done so, there are potential fellow citizens--people who have been enabled by the Holy Spirit and are waiting for us-- in all the rest.
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Luke 22
36 “But now,” he said, “take your money and a traveler’s bag. And if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one! 37 For the time has come for this prophecy about me to be fulfilled: ‘He was counted among the rebels.’ Yes, everything written about me by the prophets will come true.”
38 “Look, Lord,” they replied, “we have two swords among us.”
“That’s enough,” he said.
He told them to buy swords because he was leaving them, Jesus had protected them when He was with them but now they were going out into the world and there would be times when they needed to protect them selves.
36 “But now,” he said, “take your money and a traveler’s bag. And if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one! 37 For the time has come for this prophecy about me to be fulfilled: ‘He was counted among the rebels.’ Yes, everything written about me by the prophets will come true.”
38 “Look, Lord,” they replied, “we have two swords among us.”
“That’s enough,” he said.
He told them to buy swords because he was leaving them, Jesus had protected them when He was with them but now they were going out into the world and there would be times when they needed to protect them selves.
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In that case they needed 11 swords for each one of them. However, Peter had told Him that they had no place to go and He had words of eternal life. And they had followed by giving up all. So your logic is wrong.
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is my logic wrong when the soldiers ask what they should do and Jesus said don't take advantage of the people and be happy with their pay. Why did he not tell them to leave the military if it was wrong? they asked?
No two was enough they regrouped together after they were scattered.
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That wasn't Jesus who said that, it was John the Baptist. However, "it's all scripture." But remember that "taking advantage of the people" was their job and extorting money was part of their pay--that's how soldiers operated in that day. John was clearly telling them that they could no longer continue doing what soldiers do.
So the next time they were given orders to go out and bust heads, they would have to make a hard decision. What do you think Cornelius was going to have to do the next time he was ordered to kill Jews?
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- Jun 26, 2004
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Ok folks, I’ve kinda lost interest in this discussion. I just want to make it clear that if you are under attack, believe your person, property or beliefs are threated, I’ll defend you...even if you're unwilling to defend yourself.
Yours in the Lord,
jm
Yours in the Lord,
jm
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thank you for the correction, but that is speculation, John could have easily said follow me. turn away and it was my understanding they were not Roman soldiers but temple guards, i could be wrong but that would make more sense if they were Jews themselves. But that is speculation.
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Also another question Israel was taken by force the land it is on, king David carried a weapon and used it. If we are not to defend our selves why did they? God does not change.
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Are you still under the Mosaic Law? All 600+ provisions of it?
God does not change, but His relationship with people does. We are under a better covenant with better promises from that of David. In addition, as I've already said, Israel is a unique nation of which God explicitly defined physical boundaries. If we were Jews in Israel under the Mosaic Covenant, that argument would be valid. But we aren't, so it's not.
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