Should Christians support Rebuilding of Jerusalem Third Temple.

Should Christians support Jerusalem Third Temple?

  • Yes... the words of Ezekiel must come to pass.

    Votes: 9 12.5%
  • No.... it will lead to the rise of the Anti-Christ fellow.

    Votes: 9 12.5%
  • Yes.... living waters will flow from the restored Third Temple.

    Votes: 2 2.8%
  • No... Christians must not support animal sacrifice.

    Votes: 38 52.8%
  • I am not certain but I will research this question further.

    Votes: 9 12.5%
  • No... this could cause a war to break out.

    Votes: 5 6.9%

  • Total voters
    72

DennisTate

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And what are you doing that for?

GOD?
Others?

Or yourself?

I want to see Zechariah 14 fulfilled and my understanding is that
it cannot happen until after at least the first part of Ezekiel chapters 40 - 48 happens.......

Isaiah 66:5
Isaiah 66:6

You can't have the voice of the L-rd in the Temple.......
avenging himself on his enemies......
until there is a temple?!

Well.... you can ....... but within the Bride of Messiah metaphorically.....
which I believe is happening right now as never before in history......
 
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BABerean2

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Truth.... can only be taught in stages......
level after level after level much like as is done for our kids
in the Grades primary to grade 12... and then
college or university.........

The words of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy and Numbers do have
value for our time period.........

They were confirmed by Ezekiel and the other prophets........

The role played by the Orthodox Jews and Levites on the Temple Mount during the Age of Moshiach
that will last for one thousand years is an important part of the full fledged redemption.......

Isa 53:5  But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 
Isa 53:6  All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 
Isa 53:7  He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

 

Jer 31:34  And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
 

Dan 9:24
  Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 


Heb 10:16  This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 
Heb 10:17  And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 
Heb 10:18  Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

 
Joh 19:30  When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. 


If modern Jews renew animal sacrifices, it will return them to the same spiritual condition that existed when God allowed the Romans to destroy the temple and the city in 70 AD.
It will be one more rejection of God's Son.


If we truly love the Jewish people we need to share with them "the suffering servant" of Isaiah chapter 53, and the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and the timeline of Daniel chapter 9. These passages from the Hebrew scriptures reveal that the baby born in a manger is the New Covenant Messiah promised in God's Word.


In the video below a modern Jew finds the promise of the New Covenant in his Hebrew scriptures. Jeremiah 31:31-34

 
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miknik5

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I want to see Zechariah 14 fulfilled and my understanding is that
it cannot happen until after at least the first part of Ezekiel chapters 40 - 48 happens.......

Isaiah 66:5
Isaiah 66:6

You can't have the voice of the L-rd in the Temple.......
avenging himself on his enemies......
until there is a temple?!

Well.... you can ....... but within the Bride of Messiah metaphorically.....
which I believe is happening right now as never before in history......
Woe to those who hasten the day
 
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DennisTate

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Isa 53:5  But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 
Isa 53:6  All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 
Isa 53:7  He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

 

Jer 31:34  And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
 

Dan 9:24
  Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 


Heb 10:16  This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 
Heb 10:17  And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 
Heb 10:18  Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

 
Joh 19:30  When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. 


If modern Jews renew animal sacrifices, it will return them to the same spiritual condition that existed when God allowed the Romans to destroy the temple and the city in 70 AD.
It will be one more rejection of God's Son.


If we truly love the Jewish people we need to share with them "the suffering servant" of Isaiah chapter 53, and the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and the timeline of Daniel chapter 9. These passages from the Hebrew scriptures reveal that the baby born in a manger is the New Covenant Messiah promised in God's Word.


In the video below a modern Jew finds the promise of the New Covenant in his Hebrew scriptures. Jeremiah 31:31-34


I like how you think.....
but please remember how the first and second century Messianic Jewish community
lived along side the Rabbinic Jewish community.

"The first Church was Jewish. If a Gentile wanted to follow the Messiah, he had to convert to Judaism. Then Peter had a revelation that Gentiles did not have to convert to Judaism to be saved (see Acts 10). The Jerusalem Council meeting determined that Gentiles did not have to be circumcised. There were only four easily followed requirements. They were to “abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood” (Acts 15:20). After all, James said, they could learn more about God by hear- ing the words of Moses every Saturday in the syna- gogue (see Acts 15:21). This opened the door to widespread church growth among the Gentiles. So many Gentiles were saved that the Jewish believers became a minority.

The first Jewish followers of Jesus were called “Nazarenes” (part of the Essenes sect of Judaism dis- cussed in Chapter 3). They practiced traditional Judaism and were widely accepted by unbelieving Jews. Early in the second century their numbers reached 400,000.1 In the Book of Acts, the early church fathers said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many myriads [tens of thousands] of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law” (Acts 21:20).
The Nazarenes’ acceptance by traditional Jews came to a halt in A.D. 135 when Rabbi Akiba declared that Bar Kochba was the Jewish Messiah. His followers hoped he would lead them to victory over the Romans. The Nazarenes refused to fight because they believed Jesus was the true Messiah rather than Bar Kochba. They were branded traitors, not because they believed in Jesus, but because they would not join Bar Kochba’s armed struggle. Bar Kochba and his followers were quickly slaughtered by the Romans. Afterward, Jews were banned from Jerusalem.

History shows that as the center of the Christian faith moved from Jerusalem to Rome, it became increasingly Hellenized, adopting pagan customs and philosophies rather than the God-ordained practices and beliefs of the Bible. At the same time, Christianity became increasingly anti-Jewish." (Sid Roth, The Incomplete Church, Chapter 7, page 64, 65)
 
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BABerean2

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I like how you think.....
but please remember how the first and second century Messianic Jewish community
lived along side the Rabbinic Jewish community.

Much of the confusion that we face today in the modern Church comes from the battle between the covenants that began during the first century and still rages today.
However, many are not even aware that this battle exists.


Many modern Christians have never been taught anything about the contrast between the two covenants found in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:18-24.

All wrong systems of Bible interpretation are revealed not by the scripture quoted by its proponents, but rather by the scripture they must ignore to make it work.

Many today cannot let go of the Old Covenant.
They often claim that the New Covenant and the Old Covenant are one in the same, but written on our hearts instead of stone.
They must ignore or explain away the following verses to make this idea work.


Joh 15:10  If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. 
(There are two different sets of commandments in this verse.)


2Co 3:6  who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 
2Co 3:7  But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 
(Here Paul compares the Sinai Covenant to a ministry of death.)

2Co 3:8  how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 


Gal 3:17  And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 
Gal 3:18  For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 
Gal 3:19  What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 
(Here we find the temporary nature of the Old Covenant. The passage reveals when it began and when it was completed.)


Gal 4:24  which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 
(Here Paul compares the Sinai Covenant to the slave woman, and also clearly states there are two different covenants.)

Gal 4:30  Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREEWOMAN."
(Paul tells the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant.) 
Gal 4:31  So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.
 



Heb 7:12  For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.

 

Heb 8:13  In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. 


Heb 12:18  For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest, 
Heb 12:19  and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore. 
Heb 12:20  (For they could not endure what was commanded: "AND IF SO MUCH AS A BEAST TOUCHES THE MOUNTAIN, IT SHALL BE STONED OR SHOT WITH AN ARROW." 
Heb 12:21  And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, "I AM EXCEEDINGLY AFRAID AND TREMBLING.") 

Heb 12:22  But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 
Heb 12:23  to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 
Heb 12:24  to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel. 

In the passages above we find a clear contrast between the Sinai Covenant and the New Covenant of Christ.
Therefore, they cannot be the same covenant written in a different place.




Col 2:16  Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 
Col 2:17  Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. 



1Jn 3:22  And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 
1Jn 3:23  And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 
1Jn 3:24  And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. 


.
 
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DennisTate

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Much of the confusion that we face today in the modern Church comes from the battle between the covenants that began during the first century and still rages today.
However, many are not even aware that this battle exists.


Many modern Christians have never been taught anything about the contrast between the two covenants found in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:18-24.

All wrong systems of Bible interpretation are revealed not by the scripture quoted by its proponents, but rather by the scripture they must ignore to make it work.

Many today cannot let go of the Old Covenant.
They often claim that the New Covenant and the Old Covenant are one in the same, but written on our hearts instead of stone.
They must ignore or explain away the following verses to make this idea work.


Joh 15:10  If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. 
(There are two different sets of commandments in this verse.)


2Co 3:6  who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 
2Co 3:7  But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 
(Here Paul compares the Sinai Covenant to a ministry of death.)

2Co 3:8  how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 


Gal 3:17  And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 
Gal 3:18  For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 
Gal 3:19  What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 
(Here we find the temporary nature of the Old Covenant. The passage reveals when it began and when it was completed.)


Gal 4:24  which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 
(Here Paul compares the Sinai Covenant to the slave woman, and also clearly states there are two different covenants.)

Gal 4:30  Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREEWOMAN."
(Paul tells the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant.) 
Gal 4:31  So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.
 



Heb 7:12  For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.

 

Heb 8:13  In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. 


Heb 12:18  For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest, 
Heb 12:19  and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore. 
Heb 12:20  (For they could not endure what was commanded: "AND IF SO MUCH AS A BEAST TOUCHES THE MOUNTAIN, IT SHALL BE STONED OR SHOT WITH AN ARROW." 
Heb 12:21  And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, "I AM EXCEEDINGLY AFRAID AND TREMBLING.") 

Heb 12:22  But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 
Heb 12:23  to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 
Heb 12:24  to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel. 

In the passages above we find a clear contrast between the Sinai Covenant and the New Covenant of Christ.
Therefore, they cannot be the same covenant written in a different place.




Col 2:16  Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 
Col 2:17  Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. 



1Jn 3:22  And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 
1Jn 3:23  And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 
1Jn 3:24  And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. 


.

Perhaps I am wrong and maybe this is an over simplification but
back on the first day of Sukkot in 2015 a fifteen year old Israeli had a near death
experience and he came back reporting a very detailed and kind of scary
experience.


Rabbi Rami Levy & 15 year old Natan english subtitles

.........

I consider his testimony to be verification of this verse in scripture:

John 5:45

"Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust."

I think it was around 1975 or so when Pastor Bob Jones had a similar experience
and was asked by Messiah Yeshua - Jesus......"Did you learn to love?"

The near death experience of Pastor Bob Jones!
 
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miknik5

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Perhaps I am wrong and maybe this is an over simplification but
back on the first day of Sukkot in 2015 a fifteen year old Israeli had a near death
experience and he came back reporting a very detailed and kind of scary
experience.


Rabbi Rami Levy & 15 year old Natan english subtitles

.........

I consider his testimony to be verification of this verse in scripture:

John 5:45

"Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust."

I think it was around 1975 or so when Pastor Bob Jones had a similar experience
and was asked by Messiah Yeshua - Jesus......"Did you learn to love?"

The near death experience of Pastor Bob Jones!
I don't read attachments
However in keeping with the thread title, can you tell me what is "loving" about Christians who claim to know THE TRUTH encouraging their Jewish older brothers to build a temple that is not THE TRUE HOUSE/TEMPLE of GOD?
Isn't it more loving for the younger brother to point his older brother to THE ONE and ONLY who is building THE HOUSE?
 
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JLB777

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Perhaps I am wrong and maybe this is an over simplification but
back on the first day of Sukkot in 2015 a fifteen year old Israeli had a near death
experience and he came back reporting a very detailed and kind of scary
experience.


Rabbi Rami Levy & 15 year old Natan english subtitles

.........

I consider his testimony to be verification of this verse in scripture:

John 5:45

"Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust."

I think it was around 1975 or so when Pastor Bob Jones had a similar experience
and was asked by Messiah Yeshua - Jesus......"Did you learn to love?"

The near death experience of Pastor Bob Jones!


Kind of "iffy".

The vision seems to only include "rabbi's in heaven.

No mention of Jesus.


JLB
 
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DennisTate

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Quite a faulty "house" if it's not built on THE FOUNDATION

True.. but there are two ways to look at this.......

if...... Messiah Yeshua - Jesus... feels it is his obligation to honor
all aspects of the Davidic, Levitical, Solomonic, Adamic, Noahic and even the
Cyrus Covenants......... then Messiah Yeshua - Jesus would really be the one fulfilling Ezekiel chapters 40 - 48.
 
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DennisTate

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I don't read attachments
However in keeping with the thread title, can you tell me what is "loving" about Christians who claim to know THE TRUTH encouraging their Jewish older brothers to build a temple that is not THE TRUE HOUSE/TEMPLE of GOD?
Isn't it more loving for the younger brother to point his older brother to THE ONE and ONLY who is building THE HOUSE?

True....... but many Jews would tend to be attracted to the
Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus who stated......"fools and slow of heart to
believe in all that the Prophets have spoken"..... if this means the literal
fulfillment of the positive promises and prophecies in Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel.....
not only the fulfillment of the ones that required the death of the Messiah.
 
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Rebuilding of the temple for the purpose of a restoration of the Mosaic Law with all its ritual animal sacrifices and prophetic symbology which Paul clearly described in his letter to the Hebrews as being a mere shadow of the realities fulfilled in Christ? That would be tantamount to an admission that the majority of Jews are right in their claims that Jesus was a mere teacher and not the promised Messiah. In short the Law and its temple are totally unnecessary for salvation and have been fulfilled in Christ. Helping to rebuilding or encouraging its rebuilding would not be a Christian activity. In fact, it might indicate either a lack of basic knowledge or else a lack of faith.

Hebrews 10:1
The Law is only a shadow of the good things to come, not the realities themselves. It can never, by the same sacrifices offered year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.


Hebrews 9:11
But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that have come, He entered the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made by hands (that is, not of this creation).
 
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miknik5

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True....... but many Jews would tend to be attracted to the
Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus who stated......"fools and slow of heart to
believe in all that the Prophets have spoken"..... if this means the literal
fulfillment of the positive promises and prophecies in Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel.....
not only the fulfillment of the ones that required the death of the Messiah.
Good. Then they should understand Haggai 2 and who these words (spoken by the prophet(s) ) was addressing

Don't you think?
 
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DennisTate

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Good. Then they should understand Haggai 2 and who these words (spoken by the prophet(s) ) was addressing

Don't you think?

I agree, Haggai 2 is an astonishingly powerful chapter of the Bible.
 
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DennisTate

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Rebuilding of the temple for the purpose of a restoration of the Mosaic Law with all its ritual animal sacrifices and prophetic symbology which Paul clearly described in his letter to the Hebrews as being a mere shadow of the realities fulfilled in Christ? That would be tantamount to an admission that the majority of Jews are right in their claims that Jesus was a mere teacher and not the promised Messiah. In short the Law and its temple are totally unnecessary for salvation and have been fulfilled in Christ. Helping to rebuilding or encouraging its rebuilding would not be a Christian activity. In fact, it might indicate either a lack of basic knowledge or else a lack of faith.


I disagree and feel that Christian support for the religious freedom of Orthodox Jews to literally fulfill every word of Ezekiel chapters 40 - 48 would actually lead to thousands....... then a minimum of 12,000 descendants of Judah, Benjamin and Levi becoming believers in Messiah Yeshua - Jesus as being the fulfillment of Messiah the Passover Lamb.
 
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I disagree and feel that Christian support for the religious freedom of Orthodox Jews to literally fulfill every word of Ezekiel chapters 40 - 48 would actually lead to thousands....... then a minimum of 12,000 descendants of Judah, Benjamin and Levi becoming believers in Messiah Yeshua - Jesus as being the fulfillment of Messiah the Passover Lamb.
How a Christian FEELS about such things is supposed to be based on what the Bible tells him about it and not on personal preferences or personal interpretations which are used to support such preferences or feelings.


The following scriptures warn us against such an activity:

Revelation 22:19

18I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. 20He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming

Deuteronomy 4:
"You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deuteronomy 12:32
"Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it.

Proverbs 30:6
Do not add to His words Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar.
 
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