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  1. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Although the text says kings.
     
  2. victorinus

    victorinus catholic

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    every dynasty has kings
     
  3. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Newbie

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    So does every kingdom
     
  4. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    The Roman Empire didn't have Kings it had Emperors.
     
  5. victorinus

    victorinus catholic

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    a kingdom is not a head
     
  6. victorinus

    victorinus catholic

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    0 Bible results for “emperor.”
     
  7. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    It refers to actual emperors as the greek "Kaisar" (G2541)
     
  8. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Newbie

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    No one said it is,not even revelation.
    The heads are seven mountains on which sit the whore"Jerusalem".
     
  9. victorinus

    victorinus catholic

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    you said it is in the opening post
     
  10. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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  11. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    Based on the date that is widely held as the time John wrote Revelation Vespasian was the emperor "that is", followed by his son Titus, who reigned just over two years; a 'short space'. He was the last emperor to deal with the Jews as a 'state'. Their destruction, the destruction of the temple, and their dispersion fulfilled John's vision.

    Titus' Reign

    "Unfortunately for those who suffered under Domitian, but fortunately for the resulting reigns of Nerva, Trajan, Hadrian, Antoninus and Marcus Aurelius, the reign of Titus lasted only a short 26 months. During this time he fought varying illnesses, and according to the descriptions of Suetonius, faced several bouts of depression. Considering the pressures of the positions, coupled with the disasters that accompanied it, his health concerns are not surprising. In the end repeated treatments of cold baths (alleviation of fever) indicate the possibility that it was simple influenza or even a brain tumor (which may cause related symptoms) that ended his life prematurely. At the age of 41, on September 13 AD 81, Titus passed (without a child heir) and left the mantle of government to his brother Domitian.".
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  12. victorinus

    victorinus catholic

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    can you fix this?
     
  13. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Newbie

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    Revelation 17:10 KJV: And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
    These are the kingdom's who have reigns over Israelis.At the time John wrote this there had been 5 that had fallen.
    Egypt
    Assyria
    Babylon
    Persia
    Greece
    The one that is was the one who had not fallen at that time.
    Rome
    The one to come and continue a short space
    Great Britain under the British mandate.
    From this fifth king from the west came the little horn declaring his independence.
    Great Britain being devided even for others beside those.

    The beast is eigth and is of the seven.
    Revelation 17:11 KJV: And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

    Do you not know who the beast that once was and was not and now is ?
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  14. victorinus

    victorinus catholic

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    yes -
    the roman empire with seven dynasties was mortally wounded
    -and-
    replaced by -
    islam with ten dynasties who hated constantinople, babylon the great
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    constantinople is fallen and can be found no more at all
     
  15. Acts2:38

    Acts2:38 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you sir for the "happy birthday".

    My intent was in fact to mean "Roman Empire". For the sake of either laziness or abbreviation, most will just say Rome, intending it to mean Roman empire and not anything "vatican" wise and such.

    Look, what does the verse say?

    Does it say "kings" or does it say "kingdoms"? There is a stark difference friend. One of us is misreading this verse.

    Kings or kingdoms, which is it? This is what you are missing and it is causing you serious misinterpretations.

    The old testament prophesied these events in Revelation through Daniel, Isaiah, etc etc, and none of them speak of seven kingdoms in the sense you intend it to be. None of them even mention five for that matter. Seeing as that you are misreading this verse, how many other have you misread to get to the conclusion of "seven kingdoms"?

    Hello,

    Not sure how you came to this conclusion. You may have mistranslated the Greek word kings?

    βασιλεύς basileús, bas-il-yooce' (through the notion of a foundation of power); a sovereign (abstractly, relatively, or figuratively):—king; leader of the people, prince, commander, lord of the land, king.

    I really do not see "dynasty" here. No, it is speaking of individuals, not entire separate dynasties.
     
  16. Acts2:38

    Acts2:38 Well-Known Member

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    Let me fumble up your logic for a moment here by mentioning just one kingdom you forgot to mention in kingdoms that occupied the Jews throwing your who philosophy right out the window.....

    Media or Medes.

    Media is also a fallen kingdom by the time you would place Rev 17.

    Just this one simple kingdom you missed put a monkey wrench in your whole process. Rev 17 says kings not kingdoms.
     
  17. victorinus

    victorinus catholic

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    0 Bible results for “dynasty.”
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    does that mean there were not any dynasties?
     
  18. Acts2:38

    Acts2:38 Well-Known Member

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    Hello again,

    I am not saying that there were no dynasties period. For example, everyone knows that there was a Flavian dynasty for a time (roughly 69 BC to 96 BC is the popular consensus), however in Rev 17, so on and so forth in other chapters and books as well, the intent meant in these verses is "kings". The Flavian dynasty started with Vespasian. The "five fallen" before Vespasian were not of the same dynasty. In the Koine Greek, the word king in Rev 17:10

    The OP is failing to see that it is FAR from stating separate kingdoms, but just merely individual kings of the same kingdom.
     
  19. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    The Angel in verse 7 tells John he is going to Explain the MYSTERY of the Woman and the Beast she rides (Seven Headed Beast). Then he proceeds to do that so there is no Mystery Babylon. But what does it really mean? Well he told us if we LISTEN.

    Rev.. 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

    10 And there are seven kings (Proper translation is they are ALSO Seven Kings): five are fallen (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and Greece) and ONE IS (ROME) , and the other is NOT YET COME;(ANTI-CHRIST/BEAST) and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

    So why does the Angel via God change/REDUCE the Seven Kingdoms to Seven Mountains (OROS one who rises above the plains) then say they are ALSO Seven Kings?

    All the rest of these Kingdoms were just that, Kingdoms passed from the King that AROSE to the King that would eventually FALL or lose power/dominion. This LAST KING is different, he will be the KING that ARISES and the KING that FALLS. God wants us to know that this Last King is the BEAST HIMSELF, a Man not a Kingdom so God reduces (10/20, 5/10, 1/2) the Seven Heads/Kingdoms unto Seven Kings via Rulers that ARISE. It is not just done willy nilly.

    We know who the Five are by the very definition of what a Beast is in Daniel, one that Conquers, Enslaves or Rules Israel in some capacity. Thus it is clear who the Five who have fallen are, the Actual King makes no difference, we know every Beast has a King when it FALLS, and Rome had a King when John wrote Revelation, this was all done to SHOW that the Last King was a SINGULAR MAN/A Beast unto himself. God wanted us to know 100 percent that there would be only ONE KING during this Last Head of the Seven Headed Beast. This is what s meant by this verse in Daniel 7.

    Daniel 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake (Anti-Christ/Beast): I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

    12 As concerning the rest of the beasts (Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome), they had their dominion taken away(KING FELL): yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

    So Daniel tells us the SAME STORY in a different manner, the Last Beast/Little Horn, will be cast into the BURNING FIRE (Click....hes a Man) but the rest of the Beasts lives will be prolonged for a season and a time, OF COURSE, they did not live in the End Time like the Last Beast/Anti-Christ, so Babylon was conquered by Alexander the Great but lived on for a Season, Alexander made his home there and died there. Persia is now Iran and both Greece and Rome are still Kingdoms, though toothless tigers, until this very day. But the Last Beast is a MAN who will be cast into hell.
     
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