Setting it Straight

[moicherie]

How long are you gonna allow yourselves to be a victim? It didnt happen to you personally. We musn't hold on to what happened to our ancestors, that is not a cross we are meant to bear. It was for them. For whatever reason. But it doesn't pertain to us today unless you allow it. Is it healthy for a rape victim or somebody else who has had something bad happen to them to keep holding on to that incident? Or is it best for them to find peace and move on? I say the latter. I would say for the example posted, that yes, that person was the victim most definetly! If they can and should move on with there lifes, then so should someone who isnt actually the victim. They should allow themselved to move on. Since like i said before, it didnt personally involve them.

We all have had horrible things in our lives happen. But do we stop and stay in that moment of time, always referring back to it? No. We need to move on. Stop allowing the post to rule our present and our future!

Rise up above it and move on.

Those who are eager to forget history are doomed to repeat it.
Tell the Jewish community they should move on from the Holocaust go on I dare you......

 

[JonMiller]

Those who don't remember the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them. Additionally, I do think that in some areas minority groups are held back by a victim's mentality. This doesn't change the fact that many of them (incuding african-americans) are descriminated against today.. not just 20 years ago. This discrimination (racism) has it's roots in slavery, as such slavery still is relevant.

JM

 

[mva1985]

I was talking with our new pastor yesterday about the separation in our churches and NOT what we should do about it but what we CAN do about it. We all know what should be done, but that is not realistic...

He related to me a story of what went down in the northeast not sure which conference/union... Apparently the leaders of the "white" conference got together with the "black" conference leaders and suggested that the separation be dissolved and to merge into one conference... This was instantly rejected by the "black" conference leaders and was not even considered. Apparently it was an issue of job security. It was related to me that the constituents of the 2 conferences would have recieved this merging but the leadership were more concerned, as I said, with job security and they knew that there would be half the jobs if the merger took place.

So, what CAN be done? It is unrealistic to think that the leadership of the conference or union of which you belong, black or white, are willing to do what is right. What you can do is go out and evangelize in your own area. You can turn your church into a multicultural haven for blacks and whites. If the members were willing to do this we would soon not have these separate conferences because the churches would not be separated by race. It won't start from the top, it has got to start from the bottom up.

Fantastic answer. I think you have something here.

 

[JonMiller]

The conferences initially split because black leaders weren't getting into leadership positions. The concern is still there. I Also would prefer to see them combined, but I Can understand why people would still be concerned.

JM

 

[moicherie]

This is not Christlike and demonstrates a spirit of unforgiveness... And it would do well for anyone to move past the wrongs of the past and look forward to the future. Nothing you can do about the past anyways, is there? My ancestors were persecuted by the catholic church, mercilessly, not just asked to sit in the back of the bus but there children were strung up on spears and there heads were bashed in. I am persecuted just about every day for my belief in Jesus on some level... Should we continually moan and groan about it or should we demonstrate Jesus' love to those who have persecuted our ancestors in the past and those who persecute us today?

It is easy to move on when all conditions of the past no longer exist. Consider this slavery both from the European and Arab community toward the African community came from a mindset that did not see or treat them as equal human beings.
Today that is not legally the case however society still does not treat or see people of African descent as equal human beings. Does that mean all white people are racially prejudiced? Of course not! However while I live in a society that racially discriminiates in subtle and not so subtle ways and a church that officially has a system that recognises this what am I supposed to move on from? Its part of everyday life for us all no matter what ethnic group we belong to, even those who act like ostriches.
When you are wearing my shoes then tell me to step out of them, it is not being a victim, its about accepting facts. So please lets not act as if we live in a racial Utopia cos we all know we don't. Remember the comedian Chris Rock's joke that is close to the truth. The average white man in America would not want to be him and he is rich!

 

[happywiththelord]

Fantastic answer. I think you have something here.

I agree with the both of you!

i didnt show up, but i was also referring to you loveaboveall!

 

[mva1985]

Those who are eager to forget history are doomed to repeat it.
Tell the Jewish community they should move on from the Holocaust go on I dare you......

Everyone has their tragedies that they memorialize and I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. But to continue to hold on to the past is unhealthy.

• Blacks have slavery
• Jews have the holocaust
• Americans have Pearl Harbor, 9/11 etc.
• Indians have their Trail of Tears, and numerous others
• Japanese have Hiroshima and Nagasaki
• The early church has the dark ages (WOW try and top that!)
• Heaven has the sacrifice of the Prince of Peace, Lord of Lords, Mighty God, The Lamb, etc.

I hope everyone sees my point.

 

[JonMiller]

Everyone has their tragedies that they memorialize and I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. But to continue to hold on to the past is unhealthy.

• Blacks have slavery
• Jews have the holocaust
• Americans have Pearl Harbor, 9/11 etc.

lol

One of these is not the same as the others. One of these doesn't fit.

JM

 

[mva1985]

lol

One of these is not the same as the others. One of these doesn't fit.

JM

Personally I don't find it funny.

 

[moicherie]

lol

One of these is not the same as the others. One of these doesn't fit.

JM

Maybe its the one did not involve the deliberate extermination and/or exploitation of humans based on ethnicity? Nah maybe not.....

 

[StormyOne]

I was talking with our new pastor yesterday about the separation in our churches and NOT what we should do about it but what we CAN do about it. We all know what should be done, but that is not realistic...

He related to me a story of what went down in the northeast not sure which conference/union... Apparently the leaders of the "white" conference got together with the "black" conference leaders and suggested that the separation be dissolved and to merge into one conference... This was instantly rejected by the "black" conference leaders and was not even considered. Apparently it was an issue of job security. It was related to me that the constituents of the 2 conferences would have recieved this merging but the leadership were more concerned, as I said, with job security and they knew that there would be half the jobs if the merger took place.

So, what CAN be done? It is unrealistic to think that the leadership of the conference or union of which you belong, black or white, are willing to do what is right. What you can do is go out and evangelize in your own area. You can turn your church into a multicultural haven for blacks and whites. If the members were willing to do this we would soon not have these separate conferences because the churches would not be separated by race. It won't start from the top, it has got to start from the bottom up.

unfortunately this condition has been in existence so long that neither group, blacks in power, or white in power (within our church I am speaking of) are willing to let go of that power.... so neither side is going to willingly lay down its power.....

 

[mva1985]

Everyone has their tragedies that they memorialize and I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. But to continue to hold on to the past is unhealthy.

• Blacks have slavery
• Jews have the holocaust
• Americans have Pearl Harbor, 9/11 etc.
• Indians have their Trail of Tears, and numerous others
• Japanese have Hiroshima and Nagasaki
• The early church has the dark ages (WOW try and top that!)
• Heaven has the sacrifice of the Prince of Peace, Lord of Lords, Mighty God, The Lamb, etc.

I hope everyone sees my point.

I briefly listed seven items in my list and not all of them have to do with RACE, but tragedies, and the two of you specifically picked out just the ones dealing with race.

You are sad.

 

[Loveaboveall]

It is easy to move on when all conditions of the past no longer exist. Consider this slavery both from the European and Arab community toward the African community came from a mindset that did not see or treat them as equal human beings.
Today that is not legally the case however society still does not treat or see people of African descent as equal human beings. Does that mean all white people are racially prejudiced? Of course not! However while I live in a society that racially discriminiates in subtle and not so subtle ways and a church that officially has a system that recognises this what am I supposed to move on from? Its part of everyday life for us all no matter what ethnic group we belong to, even those who act like ostriches.
When you are wearing my shoes then tell me to step out of them, it is not being a victim, its about accepting facts. So please lets not act as if we live in a racial Utopia cos we all know we don't. Remember the comedian Chris Rock's joke that is close to the truth. The average white man in America would not want to be him and he is rich!

I understand what you are saying moicherie... there is still racism today, from both sides... But the point is that we all deal with prejudices from other people. I moved on to another job just recently after my last company I worked for decided that I was too open with talking about Jesus and praying with people.

Does it do me any good to moan and groan about it, or does it do more good to love the ones who caused this "trial" in my life and hopefully show them a small glimpse of Jesus love. I have tried my best to love those people who complained about my faith, if I complained back would they see Jesus?

 

[Loveaboveall]

unfortunately this condition has been in existence so long that neither group, blacks in power, or white in power (within our church I am speaking of) are willing to let go of that power.... so neither side is going to willingly lay down its power.....

The key word is "unfortunately"! Because many are turned against the teachings of the church because of this very issue.

 

[JonMiller]

I briefly listed seven items in my list and not all of them have to do with RACE, but tragedies, and the two of you specifically picked out just the ones dealing with race.

You are sad.

The indian one was race based, but is older. However, I think I might agree with that one being similar, and that more should be done for the native american community.

To say that a few thousand people dying based on nationality is on the same level as the holocaust is rediculous. We have killed far far far more muslim innocent citizens than military and civilian deaths caused to us by muslims combined.

JM

 

[JonMiller]

The thing is that if we say it isn't occuring, then it gets worse for peopel and more people's lives become miserable. You might find a job that allows you to be Christian... if racism is allowed unchecked african americans wouldn't be abel to live anywhere happily.

JM

 

[mva1985]

The indian one was race based, but is older. However, I think I might agree with that one being similar, and that more should be done for the native american community.

To say that a few thousand people dying based on nationality is on the same level as the holocaust is rediculous. We have killed far far far more muslim innocent citizens than military and civilian deaths caused to us by muslims combined.

JM

Who is this we? Muslims have killed more Muslims then anyone else.

 

[mva1985]

The thing is that if we say it isn't occuring, then it gets worse for peopel and more people's lives become miserable. You might find a job that allows you to be Christian... if racism is allowed unchecked african americans wouldn't be abel to live anywhere happily.

JM

Racism is not only about blacks. This is a multi-cultural country that we live in.

 

[JonMiller]

Racism is not only about blacks. This is a multi-cultural country that we live in.

Where did I say or imply the contrary?

JM

 

[moicherie]

I briefly listed seven items in my list and not all of them have to do with RACE, but tragedies, and the two of you specifically picked out just the ones dealing with race.

You are sad.

Whats more sad is someone who wants to pretend racism no longer exists cos things are better compared to the past.