Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

[Danthemailman]

Hi MMD
I owe you a reply.
Too busy right now.

BUT, as to your above post, I just want to say that your last sentence is correct and it's called SANCTIFICATION.

Justification is what you're talking about.
Sanctification is faith in action. Faith is both a noun and a verb.

We've been through this, haven't we?
Gotta go.

Yes we have been through this many times and not just here.

 

[JLB777]

So according to you, faith is dead UNTIL it produces action/obedience/works and then faith comes to life and saves us. It's obvious that you are teaching justification/salvation by faith AND WORKS. Just man up and admit it.

I’m teaching justification by faith.

Faith without the corresponding action of obedience is incomplete, dormant, dead and lifeless, in which it does not function, just as a body without a spirit is dead, and lifeless, incomplete and does not function.


For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:10


with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


Does this say believe unto salvation or does it say with the mouth confession is made unto salvation?


Confessing Jesus as Lord is the action of obedience to the Gospel command repent.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

We MUST CONTINUE to believe if we are to be saved at the END OF OUR LIFE.

Stop it! There is no such verse in the Bible that supports this.

Colossians 1:22-23
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel ...

groan... In order for God to present you before Him holy and blameless, you MUST continue in the faith. That's what the verse is clearly saying. Just trace the "if" in v.23.

IF we continue IN OUR FAITH, Jesus will present us holy and blameless before God.

This isn't salvation.

1 Timothy 4:10

10For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

There goes that present tense again for believers.

And there are just as many aorist tense uses, all of which you discount.

I could list verses all night on BELIEVING having to be present tense.

So what?

One believes...............he is saved and secure.
One does NOT believe...he is not saved and not secure.

Go ahead and keep ignoring all the security verses, which you've been shown and rejected.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
OK, please provide the exact words that indicate a condition to be met in v.27.

Can't wait.

John 10:27 JESUS SAID:
27“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;"

Jesus is telling us WHO are HIS sheep.

And this is called a DESCRIPTION, not a condition.

In order to be one of His sheep, you MUST be willing to adhere to these CONDITIONS:

1. Hear the voice of Jesus and obey it. To hear, in the Greek, as you must surely know, means to OBEY, TO HARKEN TO...not just to listen with the ear.

2. Jesus must know you. You must be a part of His Kingdom right here on earth, in THIS life. How do you become a member of the Kingdom? Try reading Mathew chapters 5 through 7 where Jesus speaks, ONLY in these 3 chapters, more about the Kingdom of God than about salvation in ALL of His teachings.

3. You MUST follow Jesus. Follow means to learn from Him, to respect Him, to trust Him, to do as He does which means to obey and mirror Him.

It is quite obvious that you have no idea about the difference between condition and description.

IF you can do the above 3 things, you will be one of Jesus' sheep

So you've cut John 10:9 out of your Bible?

Along with these verses:
Salvation:

Mark 16:16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16:31They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Eternal Life:

John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

AND he will give you eternal life for as long as you follow those conditions.

The 24 verses above REFUTE your claims.

Do you know about the covenants? You might not since you don't seem to understand the concept of CONDITIONS.

Said the one who has no clue about conditions vs descriptions.

Study the Mosaic Covenant.

No one was saved by that covenant.

There is a condition to that covenant.

Every covenant has conditions.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Still avoiding the question?
I wonder why.

Still avoiding my question to you, which you won't answer with a simple yes or no.

Have you stopped beating your wife yet? yes or no.

Does one of His sheep who becomes lost need to be saved?

You fail to discern the meaning of "lost" in the parable. And you've failed miserably to prove that it means "going to hell".

Yes or No.

Go ahead and answer my question with either yes or no.

The simple honest answer is yes: Lost sheep need to be saved.

Why insert a word that doesn't occur in the parable? Where do you see "saved" anywhere in that parable?

 

[JLB777]

Still avoiding my question to you, which you won't answer with a simple yes or no.

Have you stopped beating your wife yet? yes or no.

Your attempt to change the subject is blatently obvious to all who come here to honestly discuss the truth of the scriptures.

You just want to argue and lie to prop up your man made doctrine of deceit.


You can’t even be honest about the lost needing salvation. Lol!!!

All I have to do is let you keep exposing yourself and your false doctrine.


Your doctrine is from your father the liar.



JLB

 

[JLB777]

Why insert a word that doesn't occur in the parable? Where do you see "saved" anywhere in that parable?

Do the lost need salvation?

Do sinners need salvation?


JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Still avoiding my question to you, which you won't answer with a simple yes or no.

Have you stopped beating your wife yet? yes or no.

Your attempt to change the subject is blatently obvious to all who come here to honestly discuss the truth of the scriptures.

You wish. I asked the SAME TYPE of question that you keep asking of me. A question with a FALSE PREMISE.

Why do you expect an answer from a question with a FALSE PREMISE when you won't answer one yourself?

You just want to argue and lie to prop up your man made doctrine of deceit.

You've never been able to prove any of your outlandish claims and charges.

You can’t even be honest about the lost needing salvation. Lol!!!

Such deception and deceit. Of course the unsaved need saving. But once saved, you simply ignore all that Jesus said about recipients of eternal life never perishing, which is in total opposition to His teaching.

All I have to do is let you keep exposing yourself and your false doctrine.

Reality check: you have been quite open about exposing all your deception and rejection of what Jesus teaches.

Your doctrine is from your father the liar.

I've proven that my doctrine is directly from Jesus, so your statement here is just another exposure of your highly anti-biblical views.

Where is the clearest verse that salvation can be lost?

Answer: you don't have ANY.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Do the lost need salvation?

Do sinners need salvation?
JLB

Of course everyone needs salvation, silly.

But why do you directly oppose the Lord Jesus and claim that recipients of eternal life can perish, when He said they shall never no, not ever, perish?

Another question that exposes your false doctrine, and one that you won't answer.

 

[JLB777]

Of course everyone needs salvation, silly.

But why do you directly oppose the Lord Jesus and claim that recipients of eternal life can perish, when He said they shall never no, not ever, perish?

Another question that exposes your false doctrine, and one that you won't answer.

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Still avoiding my question to you, which you won't answer with a simple yes or no.

Have you stopped beating your wife yet? yes or no.

You wish. I asked the SAME TYPE of question that you keep asking of me. A question with a FALSE PREMISE.

Why do you expect an answer from a question with a FALSE PREMISE when you won't answer one yourself?


You've never been able to prove any of your outlandish claims and charges.


Such deception and deceit. Of course the unsaved need saving. But once saved, you simply ignore all that Jesus said about recipients of eternal life never perishing, which is in total opposition to His teaching.


Reality check: you have been quite open about exposing all your deception and rejection of what Jesus teaches.


I've proven that my doctrine is directly from Jesus, so your statement here is just another exposure of your highly anti-biblical views.

Where is the clearest verse that salvation can be lost?

Answer: you don't have ANY.

If you believe that the lost needing salvation is a false premise, then you are promoting the doctrine of the father of lies.

• Lost sheep need salvation.

A simple truth you can not explain away.



JLB

 

[GodsGrace101]

I am not judging your soul. I view you as saved and will never perish.It is sad you don't. Your theology puts YOUR soul up for possible judgement and condemnation........not the bibles truth.

I've been Christian for about 40 years now.
Like one of my friends says,,,I just can't walk away after tasting the love of God. And I know it's very difficult to.

This does not mean it's not possible.
If I stop being in communion with God, it's very easy to understand from scripture that I will not be with the one I DO NOT serve upon death...I will be with the one I was serving.

God is an all-good and merciful God,,,but He is also a just God.

If those who do not serve Him (at whatever point in their lives) get to go where the ones that DO serve Him...where is the justice in that?

Do you know what justice means? Jesus said blessed are those that seek justice..
Mathew 5:6
It simply means that man seeks that each one receive what he is due.

We are made in God's image. If God is just, and gives to each one what one is due...how could we end up the same after death?

We are saved for as long as we wish to be and have faith, believe, and obey God.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Yes we have been through this many times and not just here.

When are you going to agree with me??

 

[GodsGrace101]

Stop it! There is no such verse in the Bible that supports this.


groan... In order for God to present you before Him holy and blameless, you MUST continue in the faith. That's what the verse is clearly saying. Just trace the "if" in v.23.

This isn't salvation.

And there are just as many aorist tense uses, all of which you discount.


So what?


Go ahead and keep ignoring all the security verses, which you've been shown and rejected.

As you ignore all the verses that clearly demonstrate our salvation is dependant on serving God.

 

[GodsGrace101]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
OK, please provide the exact words that indicate a condition to be met in v.27.

Can't wait.

And this is called a DESCRIPTION, not a condition.


It is quite obvious that you have no idea about the difference between condition and description.


So you've cut John 10:9 out of your Bible?

Along with these verses:
Salvation:

Mark 16:16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16:31They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Eternal Life:

John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.


The 24 verses above REFUTE your claims.


Said the one who has no clue about conditions vs descriptions.


No one was saved by that covenant.


Every covenant has conditions.

Every covenant does NOT have conditions.
Study the 8 most important ones.
It will also help you to understand why salvation is not guaranteed just because you believed at some point in your life.

 

[FreeGrace2]

If you believe that the lost needing salvation is a false premise, then you are promoting the doctrine of the father of lies.

You know good and well that I never even suggested such stupidity.

Of course the lost need salvation. And I said so in my last post to you.

Why are you so dishonest all the time?

Lost sheep need salvation.

A simple truth you can not explain away.

You simply fail to understand what "lost" means. You spiritualize everything to fit your unbiblical view.

What you reject is that fellowship can be lost.

Try this: go to your very best friend, and offend them in a big way, and then step back and watch how much fellowship you have with them.

What you'll find is that you have NO fellowship with them. Why? Because you offended them, and LOST fellowship with them. Fellowship DIED.

The SAME WORDS Jesus used in the prodigal parable.

But you're a denier.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"Go ahead and keep ignoring all the security verses, which you've been shown and rejected."

As you ignore all the verses that clearly demonstrate our salvation is dependant on serving God.

Well, at least you have admitted that you have ignoring all the security verses, by the "as you..." comment.

But, you've shown NO such verses that our salvation is dependent upon serving God.

How in the world can you NOT see that such a claim is nothing other than a works based salvation?

You have very little discernment if you really believe what you say.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Every covenant does NOT have conditions.
Study the 8 most important ones.
It will also help you to understand why salvation is not guaranteed just because you believed at some point in your life.

This is really pathetic.

Salvation is guaranteed in Eph 1:13,14, John 5:24 and 10:28.

But God gives everyone the freedom to believe whatever tickles their ears.

Regardless, once God saves you, you can't change that, as much as you think some can.

 

[JLB777]

You simply fail to understand what "lost" means. You spiritualize everything to fit your unbiblical view.

This is your MO - redefining biblical words to suit your false doctrine.


I see. So lost really doesn't mean "lost", but actually means "saved"?

So that the lost don't really need to repent, because they are really "saved"?


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

The sheep who became lost, returned to being a sinner in need of repentance.



If the lost don't need to repent in order to be saved, then who does?



JLB

 

[JLB777]

This is really pathetic.

Salvation is guaranteed in Eph 1:13,14, John 5:24 and 10:28.

But God gives everyone the freedom to believe whatever tickles their ears.

Regardless, once God saves you, you can't change that, as much as you think some can.

More opinion, with no scripture.


Classic Deceitfulness of Heresy!


If the lost don't need to be saved, then who does?



JLB

 

[JLB777]

Go ahead and keep ignoring all the security verses, which you've been shown and rejected."

None have been presented because none exist.


Since you only state your opinion with and reference to a scripture with posting the scripture, you are being deceitful.


JLB